$15,000 tax break vs $7500

Profile picture for dandman
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I'm a first time home buyer currently in the process of purchasing.  Will the $15000 break work the same as the $7500 interest free loan?  I'm so confused....
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February 04 - Phoenix
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Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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you buy the home in 2009, you file for the tax break when you pay 2009 taxes. 
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February 11
Profile picture for indyhouse
It looks like the final version of the tax credit will be significantly less than the initial $15,000 senate version.  Sources are reporting that it has been decreased to $7,500, with other strings potentially attached.
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February 11
Profile picture for candace a

I have a question if we are purchaseing our home this month are we eligible for the tax credit this tax season or next tax season

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February 10

From www.bloomberg.com:

"The Senate-passed credit for homebuyers, unlike the existing $7,500 credit, isn’t refundable, which means house purchasers who owe less than $15,000 in federal income tax won’t get the full benefit in a single year.

Instead, the Senate provision would allow homeowners to split the $15,000 into two separate tax credits of $7,500 to be taken in successive years. To pay $7,500 in federal taxes, a family of four would have to earn about $92,125, according to Internal Revenue Service tax tables.

No Refund

Lower-income people whose taxes over two years don’t total $15,000 won’t get the full benefit and in many cases would get a better deal under current law, which requires the government to send a check for the difference between taxes paid and the $7,500 credit.

Under existing law, the $7,500 has to be repaid. The Senate bill wouldn’t require the $15,000 credit to be repaid. In its version of the economic stimulus bill, the House agreed only to waive the repayment requirements, though it left the refundable credit at $7,500 and preserved income limits for eligible users. "

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February 09
I found some information that may help clarify the question of whether or not the bill is retroactive. From Wikipedia: "a sunset provision or sunset clause is a provision in a statute or regulation that terminates or repeals all or portions of the law after a specific date". We have all read that "The amendment would sunset the current $7,500 housing tax credit on the date of enactment." So I believe this means nobody will have to repay the credit.
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February 06
I have no answer but rather another question. If I bought my house in 2008 (after April), do I have to repay the tax credit? I don't quite understand the pharse "The amendment would sunset the current $7,500 housing
tax credit on the date of enactment." Will I still have to pay or not?
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February 06
Profile picture for indyhouse
To resolve any dispute about the non refundable nature of this proposal (and why it's important):

1. A refundable credit could, hypothetically, make your tax liability negative (meaning the government issues you a check).  A non refundable credit means that the credit merely reduces your tax liability to zero.

2. the text of this amendment, as proposed, indicates that it is a nonrefundable credit. This means there will be no handouts of 15k to anyone who buys a home.  Your tax liability must be 15k or more in order to claim the full benefit of the credit. The relevant text of the amendment is below:

[In plain english it says that the 15k credit cannot exceed your tax liability after all other credits and deductions]

(2) LIMITATION BASED ON AMOUNT OF TAX.—In the case of a taxable year to which section 26(a)(2) does not apply, the credit allowed under subsection (a) for any taxable year shall not exceed the excess of—
(A) the sum of the regular tax liability (as defined in section 26(b)) plus the tax imposed by section 55, over
(B) the sum of the credits allowable under this subpart (other than this section) for the taxable year.

3. The upside, however, is that you can claim the credit on multiple tax years.  So, if you only had 5k liability in 2009 you could claim the remaining 10k in 2010.
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February 06
Profile picture for FatNoah
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I will be doubly mad if the new amendment removes the income limitation.  I couldn't claim the 7,500 for my purchase last year due to an AGI that was too high.   Grrr!   Maybe they'll make it retroactive if it gets passed in time for 2008 tax season...oh wait...too late!

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February 06
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Martin, the bill has not passed, but they have agreed on the tax credit....

Some form of the bill will be passed, but they have agreed on the credit.  And, it does not have a repayment feature.  It will take effect as soon as President signs, which they say could be early next week.

Yes, the 4% proposal by the Republicans is not in the bill yet.  From my understanding, the Dems want it seperate from the stimulus bill, but have not ruled it out.
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February 06
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Bobby and OJ....The revised tax credit will be for all home buyers, just not first time home buyers....

Refundable?  Do you mean is there a repayment feature?  If this is your question, then "no" the new plan does not have a repayment feature.

Cert....its a tax credit.  Therefore if they owe you money after the credit, it would be a refund just like any other refund.
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February 06
Profile picture for Martin Wareing
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Bob,
No worries, but until passed...  it is currently repaid  correct???  As it stands..?  Then it is a tent sale as it stands...  I have had to comment on the "proposed" 4% FIXED rates from the REP... not passed either.  I am not against it/that or your, but I have not seen a $15,000 do not pay back a penny bill signed yet  have you? I do read and keep up  and not saying you don't, but that is why the OP says it is confusing... Because it would seem to give a much different picture from what is currently in force and what is being chattered about in our industry and DC, correct? I'm all for learning something new, but have not seen Obama sign anything yet. Keep rockin'.
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February 06
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Frisky, agreed.

$15,000 credit, low rates, and values have come down.  Those three items should move folks off the fence and start to reverse the numbers.  It will not be restored immediately. 

Sell some homes and start to get people some confidence back.  It worked in the 70s and they didn't even have low rates.
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February 06
Profile picture for CertPharmT15
I'm also wondering if this is going to be a refundable credit (cash in hand)...  Any thoughts???
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February 05
Profile picture for goodomen
I owned a co-op apartment and sold it. Since buying the co-op I got married. My wife's name was not on the co-op.  Now we want to buy a house together.

Questions:
1. Does owning a co-op count as being a "homeowner." if so, so does that disqualify me from receiving this tax credit?
2. My wife has never been a homeowner. Together as a couple we've never been homeowners. Will we qualify for the credit when we buy our house this year?

Thanks
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February 05
"Please don't limit it to "first time home buyers"! Many of us responsible owners/borrowers would love to opportunity to buy a retirement home now, before we have to sell our primary home. Why should we be penalized for our frugality or common sense?

Any home buyer stimulates the economy!"

You wouldn't be "penalized" for your "frugality or common sense".  Being old enough to already have a house doesn't make you frugal or smart anyways, just old.  I agree that any home buyer stimulates the economy, but first time home buyers arguably need the help more than others, and I think that would be the point of the tax credit - not to "penalize" you.
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February 05
I'm with KenClunk... I read the details of the proposal, but all that jargon doesn't make much sense to me. I'm assuming based on what I've heard that the $15,000 is non-refundable?
I agree that there's a huge difference between $7500 refundable and $15,000 non-refundable. I'm looking for my first home right now, and the difference to me would be between getting $7500 and getting next to nothing, so if anybody out there knows which way it is let us know!
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February 05
Profile picture for oj165
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Please don't limit it to "first time home buyers"! Many of us responsible owners/borrowers would love to opportunity to buy a retirement home now, before we have to sell our primary home. Why should we be penalized for our frugality or common sense?

Any home buyer stimulates the economy!
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February 05
Profile picture for frisky1
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Its going to take a lot more than 15k to get an educated borrower to buy something in 09.  From the Economist
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February 05
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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There are no income limitations in the current version.  Keep your fingers crossed.

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February 05
Profile picture for GoGiantsz28

Can anyone confirm there are no income limits on this bill?  I've read it, but cannot find any reference to limits ...

If you recall, the former law (the $7,500 credit), phased out buyers at $150k and up ...

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February 05
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Frisky, I disagree.  And since the feds did away with seller DPAs because they artificially increased prices, they disagree, too.  They realize what that did to deliquency in FHA loans and that is why they eliminated seller DPAs.

In 1974, the did not artificially increase prices, but it did get us out of a recession.

This will have no influence on prices, but it will move people off the fence.  Most educated borrowers will not take the 15,000 tax credit into account when making an offer.  While it will influence them to put in a contract, it will not influence what they offer.
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February 05
Larry -- I don't necessarily think lenders should loosen lending standards, I'm just wondering if it will happen, thanks to this tax credit (if it's enacted). Just seems to me that, if standards are loosened, it could be a slippery slope to another foreclosure crisis. Just wondering what people think about that.
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February 05
Profile picture for dianetuman
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Ken: I included a link lower in this thread about the actual details of the proposal. But, Here it is again. The details of the tax credit begin on the second page.


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February 05
Profile picture for KenClunk

Can anyone confirm whether or not the 15K is a refundable credit?

Zillow's COO says its not but does not have a reference. http://www.examiner.com/x-238-Real-Estate-Marketing-Examiner~y2009m2d5-No-payback-on-proposed-15000-tax-credit

I believe the 7.5K is refundable, is that correct?

Thats a big difference between the two. The 7.5K would give cash in hand while the 15K would only take your tax liability down to 0, but not give a refund.

Any insight?

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February 05
Profile picture for frisky1
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Lenders are starting to loosen standards on refi's  . Only a matter of time before they get lowered on purchases, plus this credit, plus artificially low interest rates--means a possible mini bubble or a delay of the collapse.

Bob, giving everyone $15k to buy a house absolutely raises values. it makes every house worth more than it is naturally. Or at the very least, in a declining market, it keeps values as is for a little while. once the credit is gone, so is this little extra value. This does nothing to help the broken underlying fundamentals like rental price vs. home price.
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February 05
Profile picture for Alan Stone
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Last evening the United States Senate unanimously passed a bipartisan
amendment, offered by REALTOR Champions, Senators Johnny Isakson (R-GA) and
Joe Lieberman (ID-CT) to the Economic Stimulus Bill creating a $15,000 tax
credit to individuals who purchase a home in the next year.


Specifically, the Isakson-Lieberman amendment to the pending economic
stimulus bill would provide a direct tax credit to any homebuyer who
purchases any home. The amount of the tax credit would be $15,000 or 10
percent of the purchase price, whichever is less. Purchases must be made
within one year of the legislation's enactment, and the tax credit would not
have to be repaid.


The amendment would allow taxpayers to claim the credit on their 2008 income
tax return. It also seeks to prevent misuse by only allowing purchases of a
principle residence and by recapturing the credit if the home is sold within
two years of purchase. The amendment would sunset the current $7,500 housing
tax credit on the date of enactment.


While the final details of the Stimulus Bill are still being debated, this
amendment represents a tremendous step forward
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February 05
Profile picture for dianetuman
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Here's the amendment as proposed by Isakson. Fun for lawyer-ly brains.
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February 05
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Katie I am curious as to why you think lenders should loosen their standards.  That makes little sense to me.  People are in an uproar blaming lenders for their lax lending and now everyone wants them to reduce the standards. 
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February 05
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Group E... I would imagine you are SOL on this for a second home.
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February 05
Profile picture for Group_E
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I am in the midst of buying a second home and am scheduled to close in Mid-March.
2 Questions:
Should I delay my closing until this potential tax benefit is clearly defined?
Would it apply to a second home anyway?
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February 05

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