250k is NOT rich in California

When Obama realizes a good many of those people making 250K are no longer employed (many are or were employed in the financal and real estate sectors) he'll be raising taxes on people in lower income brackets to pay for all his new programs. 

A household, not just an individual, making $250k per year is in the top 10% of any county in the Bay Area except Santa Clara.  Even there the household is markedly above average.

28% house payments, like the rest of America has, puts you at a budget of $5000 mortgage a month. Are there no houses available for under $800,000?  Because I see plenty.

They may not be what you think you deserve.  They may not be affordable for the great majority of Bay Area folks that make far, far less than $250k.

If you don't like that (and I certainly wouldn't stay), the Greyhound station is at 1st and Mission.

Look, if everyone making 250k per year has to pay more in taxes, that leaves less money for them to spend on other things.  That means that people who sell them things will make fewer sales unless they reduce their prices.  So rejoice, your 250k lifestyle is going to get cheaper!

California is probably the number one reason there is a bail out to begin with.

If you are honest and pay your taxes, then you are already carrying one of the highest tax burdens in the country at 250k...overall dollars or overall percentage of income. If you punish people for success, eventually they will leave. In my humble opinion there are two "fair" ways to distribute the tax bill:

1) Take the total tax load and divide it by the population, voila there is your bill per person

2) Pay the same amount out of every dollar you make towards uncle sam

Continually adding a burden to people who have worked smart and hard is not the best way to run a country. Further, it encourages tax evasion and dishonesty. Obviously, there is some need for a social safety net and other government services...is this the way to achieve it? And here is a newsflash - taxes are going up for everyone; you cannot spend billions of dollars per day on wars, bailouts for irresponsibility/market instability, etc without having that money come from somewhere.

What's a gal to do though? Vote for a guy who has policies so short sighted that they reflect the inexpereince that apparently only he is unaware of or vote for a man that needs a time machine to find the version of himself most people liked? Can we put bugs bunny on a ticket? 

"California is probably the number one reason there is a bail out to begin with."

Exactly.  It's the irresponsible buyers in California, Florida, Nevada, and Arizona as to why we are in this mess.  If it were not for these 4 states, home prices would still be INCREASING.  So I say tax the heck out of the people in CA!!

While I don't have much pitty for people that make $250k/year I don't think that make's them 'rich.' I mean if 250k/year is rich, what is poor?

I don't think American's be broken into 3 classes anymore (poor, middle, rich). The 'Middle-class' definition should probably be broken into 3 of it's own categories.

Just like the age saying (ie: 40 is the new 30:

$250K is the new $200K

$150K is the new $100K

$100K is the new $75K  and so on........

Your money just doesn't go as far these days now does it.

The Dollar does not have unilateral ubiquitous value across America.

It almost needs an exchange rate between States.

tax the heck of people in CA! F U! I don't think so!

it's not about the irresponsible buyers...it's the irresponsible lenders and appraisers who got the buyers into this mess. yeah, some of them took a gamble hoping to see their home appreciate 40% in one year so they can sell it for a huge profit but many bought to buy their first home, thinking it would be a good investment and a good tax advantage. unfortunately, things don't always work out as planned.

back to the topic at hand though, $250K is not rich it's "upper middle class" at best. $500K+ a year is rich. 7 or 8 of the top 10 most expensive zip codes are in California. the folks that live there are rich!

I absolutely agree with you Lucky... I have always found it quite ironic that my kids would get free lunches at school, while the fed govt thought I was not 'low-income' and taxed me. They should really change the tax bracket for each individual state, since the states have different minimum wages and cost of living requirements.

I would also like the 'flat tax'. It would fit more with the "uniform" words w/in the constitution and then I wouldn't feel like they were taxing me more, considering I qualified for free lunches!

The irony in it all.

 bank_owned:

"it's not about the irresponsible buyers"     Perhaps if all parties who contributed would take some of the blame, we could move forward.  Buyers, lenders, policy makers etc all contributed.   Indeed, there were many irresponsible buyers who thought that they could buy with no down payment, no money in the bank, an insufficient income and the seller carrying closing costs.   Yes, lenders were enablers but it didn't take more than a mastery of basic arithmetic to know that this situation was not going to be sustainable in many households long run.   If someone is an adult ready to be a buyer and can't do some basic math, they contributed to the problem.  

Give me a break. I know so many people making a less than 100K a year in CA in Million dollar homes driving hummers.

California is the poster child for the 700 billion dollar bailout. I'm sorry Luckgrilll 250K is a good chuck of change anywhere and if you decide to spend most of that on a mortgage  for a house that is worth half of what you paid then do not complain about the bail out. I agree that the bail out is bogus. Mortgage companies took a risk and they lost. Shouldn't be the tax payers problem. But look what created it. People thinking it was okay to spend 6 x their income on an average house on a postage size lot for a house that was 1/2 the cost just 6 years ago.

webster, you are getting your inputs wrong on the bail-out. Read this.

to OP, give me a break! 250K is a lot of money and it is a very small population. people in that tax-bracket know how to not pay taxes so OBAMA is doing the right thing. go to Europe if you don't like america or reduce your income to 249K and save trouble. Might be worth asking for a $1K salary cut than pay 10K more in taxes.

lucky-

It is hard for people who do not live in California, have not been in the CA market to buy property, are unfamiliar with the horrible school districts, and have never dealt with the horror of 2 hour commutes to understand your frustration. You might as well bang your head against the wall trying to explain this to 90% of the country.

My industry is tied to Southern California. I make close to 250k a year. Right now I could afford a 4 bedroom house in Inglewood. 250k really is nothing in California especially when a decent home in a reasonable school district is 1mil +. Having said that, the markets are starting to come down and I believe that 250k will actually bring a bit of purchasing power within the next 3 years.

Get a good CPA. Get incorporated if can justify any supplemental income. You will be able to write off more of your expenses.

the people who make 250k are dependent on the system and will not leave. the people making 25M probably will, some of them... but then again the USA is the only country in the world that taxes its citizens on forign $$ earned and Taxes the people who renounce their citizenship toavoid paying taxes... making it hard for people to leave... just in case you didnt know.

oh and if you move to japan or germany or brazil, consider that the IRS can still grab taxes right out of your international bank accts so to be fair, you are doomed... you should just pay your taxes

We pay our taxes. I just dont think I can handle any more, while waiting to buy a house (with a new baby) tons of medical bills etc. I just dont think it is fair that people just under our bracket get cuts while ours increases. Rich here is at least 1MM.

Having lived in Northern California all my life, my view of who's rich and who's not in California has certainly evolved over time.

It used to be that $200K would buy you a brand new, custom 3000 sq ft home on 1/4 of an acre in a good school district, great neighborhood, suburbs, mountain views, 40 min drive from San Francsico. You could easily get into a home like this with $50-100K a year income and good credit. An average John and Jane Doe could raise a family here. I know this because this is the house I grew up in.

Fast forward almost 30 years later, and the same home has sold 3 times over. The home is now showing its age, is still 3000 sq ft on 1/4 an acre. Schools still good, etc.--same amenities. What's changed? The home is now worth $1M and you need at least a $200-250K income to sustain that kind of mortgage unless you put lots of money down.

In my household, we barely make $250K a year and are already getting screwed on the alternative minimum tax.  We, too, were irked by the fact the government is saving irresponsible homebuyers/lenders and punishing us responsible taxpayers with this bailout. The fact remains that living in California is a luxury compared to just about anywhere else you go in the US. If you look at diversity, climate, proximity to amenities no matter where you go,  other place in the US is quite like Callifornia. So we're paying a price for that.

There are ways to protect yourself from being taxed to death if you make over $250K. Talk to a tax/financial advisor. Some tips we've used successfully include participating in our employer's matching 401K program, investing more in real estate for writing off the interest, deducting childcare costs before taxes, deducting healthcare costs before taxes...

Correction: *no* other place in the US is quite like California

I think a lot of people on here have made the point that 250k is not a lot of money everywhere. Our government was built on local controls because of the huge regional differences. Making a blanket statement of being able to tax the "rich" further and not accounting for those variances shows nothing but either stupidity or inexperience (I'll presume the latter).

The idea that anyone is going to get a tax cut after the elections is sheer folly. It is merely a mathmatical impossibility with the amout of debt this country carries and the budget as is stands (or is proposed by either candidate). Our government is behaving like the irresponsible companies and people it is now needing to bailout...eventually the people who have been living responsibly and paying their bills will have no other choice but to give up and join the masses. If you keep racheting up the tax bill in little places it adds up. Add 5k from the feds, another percent of sales tax here, additional property taxes there...some point is the tipping point for each family.

We have approx 217.8 million people over the age of 18 (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/001703.html) ...let's take the approx $3214 per adult and use it for a better purpose. Pay down national debt? Heathcare for people who are unable to afford it since their property taxes went up? An effective welfare to work program that lessens the tax burden in the long run?

I'm horrified at how short sighted our policies are becoming.

You are right, earning $250 k in many parts of CA is very different from earning $250 k in Podunk, USA.   We've lived in CA and escaped.    

What I did learn was that a person earning $250 k in CA is paying far less in federal taxes already than a person earning $250 k in Podunk, USA.   Why is that?  The incredible level of state taxes and property taxes from the beginning.    CA needs to get their own spending and taxes under control so CA citizens are not so burdened carrying the weight of CA to start with.  CA has outrageous spending in areas other states don't even think of.    Start your politicking on the big picture of taxes at home, rather than focus on one federal proposal.

Huge student loans (your choice), huge medical debt (bad luck?) and a new baby (your choice) will impact income and ability to buy a house everywhere.    McCain is supporting the bail out BUT doesn't say how he's planning to come up with the money.   It won't magically appear just because he doesn't mention it, no more than money will magically appear in your budget because you chose to have big student loans.

The reason why McCain AND Obama support the bailout and are not saying where it comes from is because they know Congress has the power to print it out of thin air. It's like writing a bad check, but everyone believes it's still good, so you still get the money to do with as you please.

If the USA is so horrible for you pack up and try another country out...

250k may not be rich but it certainly not POOR.

The bottom line is the middle class has been getting the squeeze in this country (especially in California) for a long time.  It has been hidden by the debt that people were burried in.  That debt itself had a further inflationary effect (increases in house prices) that squeezed the middle class even more.  Now it has become transparent to people what has been happening to us for the last 10 years.  My husband and I refused to take on too much debt and despite the fact we were both professionals making very good salaries we had to live in the Bay Area in a life style that did not reflect our education and salaries.  This is especially true now that we have kids and I have left my job.  We have been looked down on because of this but we have learned who our friends are and what is really important in life.  The connection to family and friends is what is most important.

I do believe Obama is the right candidate for our country. Please see this link to the WSJ.

Obama will raise taxes slightly for people with incomes over $430K but substantially for anyone over $1M. Where as McCain gives people over $1M a tax cut.  Obama raises  taxes for incomes over $1M by $35K.  Bottom line is the money to pay off our debt for the war, bailouts, etc. has to come from somewhere and it is either taxes or inflation.  McCain will make things even better for the very rich, widening the gap and increasing their influcence.  Just has Bush has for the last 8 years.  We all know where that got us.

$250k a year isn't rich? LOL I realize SoCal is expensive, but even here in Boston, which is one of the top 5 most expensive cities in the country, $250k is PLENTY to live off of. Most people here make around $60k-$100k a year, and our rents are similar to San Francisco's.

Actually, I think I should adjust that figure to $50-$80k a year.