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9 out of 10 Americans believe that home is a good investment - despite economic downturn

Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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92% of Americans believe that a home is a good investment for the future. At the same time, nearly half (48%) of Americans worry about losing their home or not being able to afford the home they live in, according to a study by Bankrate.com.
49% believe that stocks offer the best chance for good long-term returns.

In the last 30 years, the average annual return on residential real estate was 5.92% versus 12.33% on the stock market which can prove to be volatile investment - The S&P 500 lost 42% of its value between the end of August and Nov. 20, 2008.

Housing is a long-term investment and not a get-rich-quick scheme - homes should be kept for at east 7-15 years to recoup closing costs and to weather economic downturns. Houses should be purchased as homes first and as investments distant second. 

Most of all, real estate is a good defense against INFLATION.
Why? Because inflation tends to drive up prices, but also salaries - however, a monthly payments on 15 or 30 year fixed mortgages stay the SAME throughout the life of the loan, regardless of inflation. 

NOTE: For a legal or financial advice contact experts in those fields.
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September 10 - Leesburg

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Profile picture for azrob
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100% of people believed the world was flat in 1300....

100 years ago, leaches were used when you got sick...

Smoking was advertised as good for your health originally...
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September 11
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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Roberto,

Fortunately, The First Amendment protects everyone's freedom of speech.

Unfortunately, The First Amendment grants everyone the freedom of speech.

You just demonstrated the benefits and the risks that are associated with it.....

The study by Bankrate.com shows that in 2009, despite all the economic hardships, overwhelming majority of Americans, 92%, believe in homeownership - truthfully, it is not that surprising. Most people like to own their own home.

I am sorry to hear the results of the study rubbed your political/ideological leanings the wrong way.....

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September 11
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What most American believe is not relevant to the investment potential or risk in real estate. Although real estate has been somewhat safe from major drops, both real estate and the stock market have proved to be volatile in the past few years. Peoples desire to own their own home is one thing, the investment potential for real estate is something else. I believe that a primary residence is an investment and should be evaluated as a long term piece of a personal financial plan. For many buyers, the problem becomes getting good, non biased information to base potential buying decisions on. I believe in homeownership, but not at the expense of financial stability.
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September 11
Profile picture for azrob
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Viviane:

You quoted a study that says, "most americans view housing as a good investment." I quoted other commonly held beliefs from history.

Now, an intelligent person, that understands logic, say, sunnyview above would understand my point.

In your case, I'll explain it slowly:

Premise 1:Most people believed A. A turned out to be false.
Premise 2:Most people believed B. B turned out to be false.
Premise 3: Most people believed C. C turned out to be false.

Conclusion? What most people believe is not a good predictor of truth.

And actually, in logic circles, this bad thinking is so common that it has a name: The Appeal to Popularity Fallacy.

Keep this in mind viv: ignorance is curable!
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September 11
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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avocado green appliances! muahahhahahah

Seriously would YOU trust 92% of Americans to evaluate ANY investment(treasuries, some preferred bank stock, the biggest dollar for dollar investment you will ever make in your life)? i wouldnt trust 5% of Americans to do it.

What percent of Americans NEVER consider what they pay in interest when judging if their investment was profitable?

What percent don't consider the cost(or savings) of rent?

and since you played the inflation card, pop quiz time...

1) what is the opposite of inflation, and what would that "thing" mean for home prices?

2) what part of rising underemployment, falling/flat wages, rising taxes, rising cost of fuel, falling liquid assets, and depressed fixed asset prices all mean for the economy as a whole?

3) what causes inflation? more _______ chasing the ________ number of __________

4) what percentage of us GDP is based firmly on consumer spending?

5)(i will throw you a bone) why is inflation a concern?

and just an FYI housing prices ROUGHLY track inflation... after about 4-6% yoy inflation, home prices tend to underperform... keep that in mind while distributing financial advice you got from an anchor on fox news
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September 11
Profile picture for sunnyview
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Hey those avocado appliances are coming back I tell you! They are actually already here, but now they call the color 'Chai' and they cost $1200. It must be a sign that the bubble can come back if people just believe.

 .
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September 11
Profile picture for SusanHH
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A home is a good investment, always will be.  Because it's real.  It's not on paper.  It's value is - but in and of itself - at least it's a tangible asset.  And you can live in it to boot.

92% believing this - will absolutely drive the market, and thus create reality.  Regarding world flat, leeches, and smoking - there was "reality" that conflicted with beliefs - so beliefs were "wrong."  Value of housing?  That's completely different because it's all just what we agree on.  We apparently had a mass bout of "stupid" the last few years.  So in the short term, some folks were "wrong."

All that has to happen is for our salaries to double.  That's pretend as well.  How much did your father make 40 years ago?  A lot less than you do, I bet.  That was when we all lived on one income - very few would compromise on that, thus few would spend 2 incomes on a house.  The generation before that - did not "do" mortgages.

Now we mortgage ourselves out for 30 years, have 2 incomes to sustain it.  Are 40 year mortgages next?  Multi-generational mortgages?  Families constructed around more than one income?  All these could add to higher housing prices. 

Key being - if enough people are willing to do it, that's what the market will become and we will all have to follow it and do the same.

None of this changes the fact that housing will always be a good investment.  We had a blip the last few years.  I bought in 1999.  I'm doing fine.  I laughed when my house value went so high a couple of years ago.  I have now "lost" on paper to a level that I agree with as far as the true value.  I have made equity at about the rate I would have expected since 1999.

We are recovering.  My house will slowly start to appreciate again - and is, apparently.  Sales in my community are on a modest upswing.  The folks who bought the last couple of years - or refinanced and used up their pretend equity, thus landing in negative equity territory - are losing.  But there's enough people like me who are fine and will stay fine.

But what everyone thinks - that is pretty much the ONLY thing that drives real estate and anything else financial.
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September 11
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It never ceases to amaze me, the number of people who can say the silliest of stuff without any knowledge or research! As viv pointed out, we all have the right to voice our opinions, but honestly, the equality part ends there; some opinions simply are not worth as much as others, due to ability and education.

susan: "None of this changes the fact that housing will always be a good investment." See susan, if it were a FACT that housing was a good investment, we wouldn't have debates about whether or not housing is a good investment...

Ever heard of a country called Japan? Japanese housing prices have dropped for the past 17 years... Japan is the second most productive economy on the planet, and has 1/20 the usable land per person the US has... and yet prices dropped for going on two decades.

Is something that can drop in value for 17 years a guaranteed fact good investment?

Right now, my opinion, based on graduate work in math and econometrics, predicting this crash pretty darn well right here on zillow almost three years ago as long timers can attest, and the data I see, housing is more likely to drop over the next few years than rise. I'd give it 90 to 10 odds of significant drops versus significant rises. That would pretty much meet the definition of a bad investment.
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September 11
Profile picture for hpvanc
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Vivian,

Have you ever considered posting information and data from a non-sales/marketing source?

You may be onto something, I would theorize that 9 out of 10 Americans only look at sales/marketing information and data sources.  However, businesses (yes even businesses) and individuals that are successful over the long term DO look at non-sales/marketing sources of data and information as well, and share that information.

So I will continue to theorize that for the 1 out of 10 Americans that seek multiple sources for their information and data to develop logical thoughts, you represent the very worst stereotype of the sales and marketing profession (not limited to just realty, but all sales and marketing professions).

So while you are within your legal rights under the 1st Amendment to spout the pure sales/marketing line, you are doing nothing to convince the majority of the posters in this forum that your opinion is even remotely valid.  In fact your continued insistence at defending the NAR line at all costs in any discussion you join, as well as hi-jacking discussion topics, pretty much guarantees that we don't have any faith in the validity of the opinions in your posts.

IF you want to be respected you will have to take a more balanced approach, let discussions develop with the realization that there ARE ALWAYS differing opinions, and not post totally off topic in an existing discussion.  Then perhaps you would garner some respect instead of having people post replies to your posts in pure irritation.

I do hope you continue to post IF you have an original idea, since even people that I disagree with 99% of the time are right sometimes and can have original ideas to add to a discussion.

I apologize for hi-jacking this topic.
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September 11
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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Roberto,

>>>>>>Keep this in mind viv: ignorance is curable! <<<

I flaged your answer.

You continually posts very offensive, rude, insolent answers whenever you do not agree with the topic.

All the data in my discussion come from an actual study by Bankrate.com - 92% of Americans are for homeownership. Who are you to decide that people should rather RENT than OWN homes?
As long as home buyers sign responsible mortgages with healthy Loan-to-Income ratios, homeownership is good for the homeowners and for the country. 

Your claims of "graduate work in math and econometrics" only prove your vanity - it does NOT necessarily prove instantly, by default, that you are right.

Try to stay on the TOPIC: Americans like to own their own home - 92% of us prefer to own our homes.

Finally, people do NOT care how much you know unless they know how much you CARE.



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September 11
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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hpvanc,

>>>pretty much guarantees that we don't have any faith in the validity of the opinions in your posts.<<<
 
92% of Americans believe that home is a good investment - it is a FACT, not merely my "opinion."  Read the study.

This is NOT to say that homeowners do not worry about finances, as a matter of fact, 48% do worry - the study shows that  92% like/enjoy being homeowners.

Ever heard about Pride of Homeownership?
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September 11
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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>>>What percent of Americans NEVER consider what they pay in interest when judging if their investment was profitable?

What percent don't consider the cost(or savings) of rent?<<<

caveat,

Could it be that house is MORE than an investment - it is a HOME!

92% of Americans prefer to OWN the place they call HOME!

As for interest payments, I always recommend paying off mortgage as soon as possible - even if it hurts - and save on all those interest payments. All over sudden, OWNING a Home becomes a great INVESTMENT, too!

NOT everything in life can be measured through PROFIT. 

Having children is expensive, very expensive. If profit was the only objective in life, people should NOT have children....but that would NOT be good, would it?  

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September 11
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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Stay on the topic everyone:

The study was about what Americans think about HOMEOWNERSHIP in these hard economic times, NOT about whether homes are overpriced or underpriced.

I'll risk saying that most homeowners believe/know that present housing limbo is temporary and at some point prices will reach equilibrium.

Hopefully, but that time sub-prime lending will only be remembered in stories that grandparents tell their grandchildren as a lesson to learn from - kind of like great depression from 1930s stories.
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September 11
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"stay on topic everyone" - whatever, you aren't the boss of anyone on here viv.

"you just demonstrated the benefits and risks of... freedom of expression."

Nope, what I demonstrated was the inane value of your post.

Here is another fact: 100% of the buyers in 2006 thought that home prices wouldn't go down...

Another viv gem: "not everything can be measured in profit..." what is that supposed to mean? It doesn't matter if your home price drops a ton, because you like it?

Go ahead, post another emotional response. (or as you previously did, insult my grammar and spelling.) 92% of people without the intellectual depth to back up an idea resort to insults and emotionalism so it must be the right thing to do.
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September 11
Profile picture for MikeEmery
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Smoking is bad for you?

When did I miss that?

I think the survey had some valid points but the article itself was pretty wishy washy. It's important for folks to read the entire article and the accompanying survey. Portions taken out of context may prove to be misleading.

My take is that there's still alot of folks who are in denial of their financial reality. But that seems to be the norm for many Americans who have lost their ability to save due to an insatiable desire to live in the here and now and forget about tomorrow. For tomorrow is another day.
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September 11
which other investment can you control 100% of equity gain with small percentage investment?  if your house is worthed $500,000 and gaines 5% a year on equity with $50,000 down you can  make 25000 a year, that is 50% income on your money plus tax  wright of on interest and depreciation,   art
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September 11
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Art:
1. stocks, by buying options
2. commodities likewise by buying options and futures.
3. entire cities real estate futures, on the case-shiller index.
4. currency swaps.
5. credit default swaps.
6. stocks by short selling.
7. stock index options on entire markets or segments.

So, basically every single type of investment in the world..

How does that leverage example work when the price drops Art?
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September 11
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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premise:

92% of Americans believe that a home is a good investment for the future
.

Conclusion:

therefore it must be a good investment...

had the opening post said "92% of americans believe a house is a pretty good place to live... especially if you own it" the blow back would have been far less

now azrob has taken you to task on the technical reason the logic isnt sound(ie that premise manufacts "data" of "opinion")

and i took you to task for giving out financial advice when you personally are probably incapable of analyzing an investment to find out if it qualifies as "good"

you then proceed to logically attack azrob's Appeal to authority, kudos for the effort though discounting his "big city book lernins" is not the root of his argument... it was a point in the periphery, there was an angry little troll on these boards who "had none" and yet could usually keep up his side of the debate, even if he was vulgar and rude about it...

if you measure it by any other metric, you should cease to use the word "investment"... do you use the word "investment" to describe children? i sure dont. so why then did you bring up children? appeal to emotion, perhaps?

and no, considering the latitude we normally take on these boards, this is quite definitely spot on topic.

azrob, come on... 99.9% of buyers in 2006... %_)% your book lernins should have included at least ONE stats class ^_)^
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September 11
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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>>>Art:
1. stocks, by buying options
2. commodities likewise by buying options and futures.
3. entire cities real estate futures, on the case-shiller index.
4. currency swaps.
5. credit default swaps.
6. stocks by short selling.
7. stock index options on entire markets or segments.<<<
 
Roberto,

Are you suggesting that people should rather RENT and invest in the opportunities on Wall Street, and STOP purchasing homes?

Let me parapharase the question:
Are you suggesting that people should put ALL their TRUST in Wall Street investors and speculators and change their lifestyles to RENTING so they can "reap" the supposed PROFITS?

Are you suggesting that we should start planning for multi-family housing to accommodate that shift?

.....aren't Wall Street speculators part of the reason why the housing market collapsed in the first place, and will take some time to rebuild.......

NOTE: The above is a personal opinion based on personal observations.
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September 12
Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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>>>do you use the word "investment" to describe children? i sure dont. so why then did you bring up children? appeal to emotion, perhaps?
>>>

Ceveat,

Distorting someone's answer to defend "your point" is not an ethical, or a wise or an intelligent method, is it?

I only used children in the example to prove that NOT everything in life can or should be mesured by PROFITS .....most people like to own a home if they can.........shame on you for taking it out of the context....

This is what I wrote in my original post:

"NOT everything in life can be measured through PROFIT. 

Having children is expensive, very expensive. If profit was the only objective in life, people should NOT have children....but that would NOT be good, would it?"



Let's stay on the topic.......the topic is what it says: 92% of Americans like to be homeowners.
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September 12
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Viviane:

MANY people (especially in overpriced coastal markets) would be far better served to rent for the meantime, and invest the difference.

Now, you have managed to completely contradict yourself!
1. 9 of 10 think their home will increase in value.
2. Not everything in life can be measured in profit.

So, which is it? do people care if their home goes up in value or not?

viv, your rudeness is exceeded only by your silliness. I point out the weak logic of your post, you run off how my expression is one of the bad results of freedom of speech. Ntets points out that you offer emotional reasons to back what is after all, an investment, and you call him unethical, and distorting your position.

You constantly admonish everyone to "stay on topic" which apparently is not to point out the logical inconsistencies in your various weak stances.
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September 12
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no one here said that everything in life was for profit, merely that INVESTMENTS are, or should be for profit and there are many, many, many examples where homes are terrible investments.

i invest 700,000 in a home that i can re-sell for 400,000 that is a lowsy investment.

its a very simple, very strait-forward concept and your argument is that "Having children is expensive, very expensive. If profit was the only objective in life, people should NOT have children....but that would NOT be good, would it?"

so either, you were implying that the value you place on children makes them a "good investment" OR you were making an emotional argument meant to distract from the question. i broached BOTH possibilities when i took you "out of context".

PS i also did not "take it out of context" i didn't quote you at all. i referenced your statement, but my post makes it clear that your completely irrelevant post was not implying that kids are to be looked at as a dollar-in, dollar-out investment. THAT would be ridiculous.

at the risk of taking you "out of context" again, i would also note a half dozen reasons why your original post is not about "human capital investment" but a financial one.

and you still havent defended your stance that the average consumer NEEDS to defend against inflation NOW. azrob and i have long held the stance that 1) inflation is inevitable, the question is when and 2) that buying a house makes MORE sense when it doesnt cost you 7-15 years of not being able to move because you are underwater.

it is your opinion that if one is to hold a home for 15 years, they should buy it... i agree. it is my position that if you can rent for the next three years, you should rent. requardless of whether you COULD buy and hold for 15 years or not. please try to stay on topic vivianne ^_)^
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September 12
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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PS, i am still waiting for why a buyer needs an inflation hedge for the next 3-5 years... or why housing prices is a better inflation hedge than say oil or iron(i refuse to endorse gold)

PSS
In the last 30 years, the average annual return on residential real estate was 5.92%... however from 1981 to 2001, (re NAR sources) the rate was 3.76%... what do you suppose the difference is? answer? spin and marketing fiction

you blame the fed for "causing the bubble" with interest rate cuts in the early half of the decade, then you openly use statistics that include figuers that you know full well to be biased by about 30%... now my question is WHY?
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September 12
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i would suggest perhaps your suggestion that the bubble can be pushed off as the sole property of "greedy flippers and bankers" and that it "only hurts the good hardworking people of this country" is a similarly populist argument that refuses to acknowledge the complacentcy of people like YOU, who will scream "buy now" reguardless of the fundamentals of the market and who would advise people off a cliff if it meant a fast buck.
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September 12
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>>> 9 of 10 think their home will increase in value.<<<

Roberto,

READ the title and the article - WHERE did it say that homes will increase in value (?)....although, at some point I hope they will.

For the 99th time, 9 out of 10 Americans think that owning a home is a good investment.....and it is!

Purchasing a home is a LONG-TERM investment, at least 7-15 years.

Those who keep their homes for 7-15 years are FINE - they do not loose anything, and if they are disciplined enough to pay off the mortgage EARLY, they save on interest payments - and they have all the EQUITY that is THEIRS for retirement, or spend any way they please.....


HOW much EQUITY do renters have after paying RENT for 30 years?

.....I cannot wait to see your answer to that question.....

Homeownership is not for everyone - some people, at least 8%, choose NOT to be homeowners for a variety of reasons.

However, 92% of us like being homeowners at some point in our lives. 


Again, the TITLE is:
"9 out of 10 Americans believe that home is a good investment - despite economic downturn" 
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September 12
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9 out of 10 Americans think that owning a home is a good investment.....and it is!

see but not losing money over a 15-30 year period is not my idea of a "good" investment. being "fine" only if you can hold the property for 10 years to protect you from downside risk is again no good, and if that is your only criteria, renting = buying... renters would be "fine" too. and it would cost them half as much to come out "fine" in several markets around the country, even now


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Again, the TITLE is:
"9 out of 10 Americans believe that home is a good investment - despite economic downturn"

thus proving that you have the attention span of a turnip... that or that you simply don't care.
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September 12
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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Those who keep their homes for 7-15 years are FINE - they do not loose anything

yay?
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and if they are disciplined enough to pay off the mortgage EARLY

obviously then home-ownership is not for 92% of Americans then, eh...
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(they save on interest payments) and they have all the EQUITY that is THEIRS for retirement

thats kindof like spending 30 dollars to get 10 back, no? i'd be happy to put together an investment program for you.
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 or spend any way they please.....

oh, brother
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Profile picture for VivianneRutkowski
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Caveat,

????????????

>>>In the last 30 years, the average annual return on residential real estate was 5.92%... however from 1981 to 2001, the rate was 3.76%... what do you suppose the difference is? answer? spin and marketing fiction<<<

The link you included here does NOT lead to NAR sources.... even so, according to that website, home prices more than DOUBLED between 1981 and 2001.
1981  -    $66,400 average home price
2001  -  $147,800 average home price

I'd say it is a reasonably good HEDGE against inflation over a 20 year period, about 4.5% per year.

As an added bonus, those who purchased a home in 1981 for $66,400 paid their mortgage based on that amount ($66,400) in 2001, while their home more than doubled in value to $147,800 in 2001!!!


On average, over a long term, homes appreciate at the rate of inflation.
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September 12
Profile picture for MikeEmery
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But if home prices outstrip the rate of inflation or outstrip income doesn't it make homeownership out of the reach of more people?

And if they're required to spend a greater share of their income on housing (which lessens their ability to save) aren't homeowners at a greater risk at defaulting because they no longer have that savings cushion?

There's something to be said against viewing a home as an 'investment' and more as a place to live. There needs to be a market correction to allow not only new homeowners into the marketplace but also allow those who already own to keep their homes.
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