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Advice for Manual Quoters

Profile picture for MaryM
Contributions: 60
Zillow Mortgage Marketplace allows both manual and auto quoters to be successful.  While auto quotes are very fast and appear within seconds, there are several things manual quoters can do to be competitive.

1. Manual quoters are in a great position to answer custom questions borrowers ask on their loan requests, providing a high level of customer service  to borrowers with specific situations.

2. Some manual quoters have re-quoted old quotes when rates drop.  Or, they focus on requests that don't have a lot of quotes.  Many of these requests are made by individuals with custom situations, and they need someone to address their specific needs. 

3. Manual quoters have the advantage of seeing other quotes already provided, so they can adjust fees accordingly to be more competitive, or decide not to spend time on certain requests.

4. Since the quote default view the borrower sees is sorted by lender ratings, manual quoters should make sure to encourage those they've done business with on Zillow to rate them.  Lenders with the best reputations appear on top even if they submit a quote later than auto quoters. 

5. If speed is important, we encourage manual quoters to investigate auto-quoting options with our Quote API Integration Providers.  Contact more than just one, since they don't all charge the same way, so you can find a provider that works within your budget.
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May 29 - US

Replies (61)

Profile picture for jcaf1918
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Since January 2009

Mary....Thank you for the suggestions.  What is Zillow doing about this APR issue.  It has gotten to the point where as a manual quoter it is not even worth quoting b/c the robo-quoters are getting away with highway robbery on how the APR is calculated especially on FHA loans.
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May 29
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

Ditto What Joe Said! It's not worth quoting anymore because of this APR issue and Zillow fully well knows of the problem and has done nothing to fix it, all the while allowing thousands if not hundreds of thousands of incorrect APRs to go out. If a print or radio ad did that they would be severely fined!
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May 29
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Mary, I used to get about 50% or higher summary or detailed views. Now I get about 2%. Today I have several quotes lower than any lender however I dont think they will be seen because they are not in the 1st wave of autoquotes, and someone told me the borrower has to select an option of " Do you want to see more quotes", in order to view anymore after the initial wave. Is that correct? 
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May 29
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

dittos to the ditto!
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May 29
Profile picture for jcaf1918
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Since January 2009

Ditto to what Clay said.  Those are all great suggestions Mary but the bottom line is with the way that the quoting system works, the borrower is just not going back to view the quotes after the initial wave
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May 29
Profile picture for TarheelChip
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Since April 2009

Incorrect APR calculations are still the biggest issue with robo-quoters and I agree with everyone else that has brought it up. Is there any estimated time on when this will be corrected? I think its been around 3 weeks since this was brought to zillow's attention?

I was on a webinar with leads360. They are #1 for online mortgage lead management. They have a 70% marketshare so I think those guys have a lot of valuable information.

Leads360 said that over 70% of online leads do business with the first company that contacts them. I'm sure they are clumping many different sites together, but it does tell us a lot about online cosumer behavior.

Clay is correct with summary and detail views and thats why I bring up Leads360. Zillow Mortgage Marketplace users are missing the best mortgage value for two reasons: The incorrect APR and robo-quoters speed. Obviously 20+ quotes is enough for them after the first 5 minutes.

Thanks for trying to help us manual quoters, but the the playing field isn't level.
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May 29
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

Just for grins, I thought I'd quote one again and see what happened. Well gee, what a surprise ...

Why should any of us who manually quote when this is the result?

I'm sure I already know your answer ... "just auto quote then" ... and to that I say ... I would rather eat glass than have my name attached to any of these fraudulent APRs!
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May 29
Profile picture for MaryM
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Thank you for all of the feedback.  To answer your additional questions:

APR:  All lenders--whether auto- or manual-quoters--are responsible for submitting quotes that are accurate.  If any aspect of the quote is not accurate, it violates Zillow's Code of Conduct.  If you suspect that the APR on any quote is not accurate or possible, please flag the quote and we will follow up with that lender.

Quote timing:  When borrowers submit loan requests, they usually receive quotes within seconds in the Quotes Received screen.  When more quotes come in, a message is displayed above the quotes that tells borrowers that they have new quotes, with a Refresh Quote List button.  In addition, the quote list refreshes automatically whenever borrowers click on anything on that page, including filters and the sorting functions at the top of each column.  So borrowers will see new quotes when they come in, and those quotes will appear according to the default sort order--with higher lender ratings appearing at the top.  In addition, registered borrowers receive periodic emails to inform them when new quotes come in.  So if lenders submit a quote later in the day, or even many days later, the borrower will be notified and directed back to the Quotes Received page.

Speed:  After considering all of the different ways to approach quoting and competing on ZMM, if you believe that speed is the most important strategy for succeeding on ZMM, then I encourage you investigate auto-quoting options with the Quote API Integration Providers.  We have integrated with a variety of different providers in order to give lenders as much choice as possible when considering an auto-quote service. 

You have a choice whether to create quotes manually or to work with a company to automate them for you.  The intention of my post here was to point out some unique strategies that will help manual quoters leverage their unique position to become more competitive in ZMM.  There are pros and cons to both auto quoting and manual quoting.  Ultimately, the choice of which approach to take rests with each lender.  
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May 29
Profile picture for jcaf1918
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Since January 2009

Mary;

 Please talk to DavidG and Karen about the APR issue.  This has been gonig on for almost a month now with no resolution in site.  As for the quote timing you mentioned, I think the frustration that we are experiencing is that because you no longer require users to register, there is no reason for them to go back to the original request.  They just post another request and the cycle begins all over again 
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May 29
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Since January 2009

Link



Are the manual quoters allowed to mention the "discount" point in the lender notes and not show it in the lender fee section like National Bank of Kansas City does?  Or is that just for API quoters?

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May 29
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

if you believe that speed is the most important strategy for succeeding on ZMM, then I encourage you investigate auto-quoting options

No, most of us here believe accuracy is the most important thing. When I joined a year ago, I saw a high # of summary and detailed views, now I dont. I can only come to the conclusion that Zillow has changed the quote delivery in a way that only the initial wave of " stuff " is seen. As far as the APR issue goes, I like Gregorio would not want my name attached to those quotes. I know how to calculate APR but that is out of our hands, you do it.  
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May 29
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Since May 2009

wow!  Colorado, I never saw that one; good point (no pun intended)

I like the ones that have $200 appraisal fees; I haven't seen an appraisal fee that low since 1993. Good luck getting one around DC for less than $400 these days.
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May 29
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

Mary,

You entirely missed the issue. ZILLOW is the one miscalculating APR on the auto quotes. We have brought this to your (Zillow's)  attention time and time again. It violates countless regulations and yet it still continues. You remember how much I used to quote? see how much I quote now? Why do you think that is? Please look at the link I provided and explain that APR.

Please fix it and don't give us pre-fab answers without investigating the problems. This is a major issue and deserves more than a brush-off.

Thanks for your attention.
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May 29
Profile picture for TarheelChip
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Since April 2009

NBofKC continues bad business practices. Thanks for sharing Nic. Talk about flagging bad quotes as earlier posted. How are we suppose to flag thousands of robo-quotes everyday? When its habitual and brought to zillow attention, shouldn't zillow fix these problems? Flagging and deleting a quote doesn't help when the borrower has already seen a fraudulant quote. Remember how speed is important to capturing a clients attention?

Sense Zillow is endorsing the API companies, can you tell us which one offers the lowest APR?  I want to shop API companies based off the lowest APR. Just kidding. I'll eat glass with Gregorio too, but we should know which one to stay away from. I'm sure this thread will encourage some to do business with an API and its important that they follow good business practices, so the information would be valuable towards the integrity of Zillow.
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May 29
Profile picture for CA UMB
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Since January 2009

I remember when David G advised that we concentrate in our area. Like a 40 mile radius. ... Then came API at $0.25 a pop with a large increase in quotes.

Now, for $100 a year you can quote the entire nation without limits. With that low fee watch how many more quotes come on that first API wave.

It's only going to get worse, not better. I have to search 11 pages to find me listed as a lender in my own town. Everyone else is from all parts of the country except my town.

Accuracy, is not part of ZMM's Business Plan. ....IMHO, Rudi
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May 29
Profile picture for _karen_
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Nic -

I'll check on the quote that you have reported.
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May 29
Profile picture for jcaf1918
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Since January 2009

Nic...Did I read that quote right.  That was from today.  I guess the big bad API machine must have came in and screwed up another NBOKC quote.
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May 29
Profile picture for Chris Corica
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Mary - you provide excellent tips BUT the best quote in the world doesnt mnean a thing if it is never viewed. I like others have had my contact ratio drop by about 90%. It has nothing to do with speed either as I am many times the first to quote. There is something more to it and I believe Clay is right. There is an additional advantage to robo quoting that involves the delivery and what the borrower see's. It will eventually come out.

As far as NBOKC, it seems everytime there is an error due to the system, it is never an error that really hurts them. I bet if their APR's were all showing up as 8-9% it would be magically fixed instantly. If the error can't be fixed right away they shouldnt be allowed to quote. That is if zillow cares about the integrity of their product which I believe they do.
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May 29
Profile picture for akoi
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Rudi, VERY good answer!!
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May 29
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Since May 2009

Karen,

in regards the APR issue; you need to know that not reporting the correct APR carries both civil and criminal penalties. TILA allows only a 0.125 variance.

For great reading; go to this link:

http://www.occ.treas.gov/handbook/til.pdf

in particular; start at page 22 but also be sure to read page 34.

This is why you're getting baclash right now; it's regulatory issues we have to follow; the ones who aren't are quite literally breaking the law.
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May 29
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Since February 2009

Good points everyone!!

Its ashame folks can come on and get accurate quotes.
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May 29
Dear Zillow,

I am a consumer, and have refi'd through a Zillow lender in the past 5 months.

As a consumer, I am going to sort the quotes I receive based on rate and APR. Many consumers have been educated to evaluate loans in this manner, as it provides an indication of embedded costs.

Many of the robo-quoters costs are identified in ways that they are not calculated in the APR. Others, and I have personal experience on this, simply are using the robo-quotes as a gimmick - and will not honor them when you call. Without naming the specific lender, there is one in SoCal who quoted a rate lower than everyone else and with fees much lower than anyone else - including other lenders associated with his brokerage company. I have been in contact with this lender via email and phone, and have absolutely nothing to indicate what rates/fees this lender will actually charge.

It is too convenient for Zillow to say "report them and we will follow up". By the time this process happens, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt that the process actually is being followed through on, the damage has already been done; the bogus quotes have already gone out, the consumer has already been scammed, the conscientious lenders have already been undercut.

It is my opinion that there are many on Zillow who use auto-quoting that are attempting to do it the right way. Why? Because I have also received robo-quotes that do not provide rates that I know are unavailable or carry almost impossible conditions, nor indicate fees that would require the lender to work almost for free. But, even these lenders are pushed down on the list provided to the consumer by those who quote rates that they cannot honor or intentionally abuse Zillow's APR calculation.

I don't like the robo-quotes, but the least that should be done is to hold the robo-quotes to a reasonable standard of honesty and disclosure. This would at least put the honest lenders, either manual or robo, on a level playing ground.

Just my $0.02 as a consumer, and one who has experience doing business with a reputable Zillow lender, and one who is using Zillow as a personal mass mailer to fish for clients.
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May 31
Profile picture for akoi
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Hmmm Robo-quotes? Just as I thought
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May 31
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Thank you,This was very helpful.
Anny
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June 04
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Hi Everyone,

Yes, it is I---robo quoter Tammy.  Although many people do use the API system as a 'crutch' for giving bad quotes, not everyone does.  I don't.  I start taking offense to all this roboquoting bashing.  There are plenty of manual quotes quoting BS stuff also.  I have been doing the API quoting since Nov, and not once have I EVER been questioned on a quote, nothing has been flagged...and if it has, Zillow has deemed it to be accurate and I knew nothing about it.

I will tell you first hand, that the API System is a good system.  You put in specific parameters, and it will only quote those.  These people who are doing the auto quotes and misleading borrowers, know EXACTLY what they are doing.  Trust me, they put the parameters in, they put the fees in.  Sure, those people make the API system look bad.  But what about the manual quoter who does the same thing?  It's six in one half dozen in another.

JMHO, my .02 cents.

..................and the crap will be hitting the fan..............................
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June 04
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Since April 2009

Robo-Quoting gets worse

As if the fraudulant APR's weren't enough, now the robo-quoters are given cheaper monthly payments at the same rate as manual quoters. Please see the link I have provided.

Tom Thomas appears to have the best deal to me. His APR should be the lowest. His payments should be the same as his 2 competitors. The difference is the API companies.

At least one of the culprits of fraudulant APR's and now fraudulant payments is known. Pentagon FCU doesn't want to take the heat from the bad quote so they tell us its Mortgage Marvel that quotes loans for them. Obviously Pentagon FCU enjoys the competitive advantage, but is quick to note its not there fault, just call us.

Mortgage Marvel should delete every quote they have made over the past 2 months. They should not be approved as an API until they are in uniform with the rest of zillow's manual mortgage calculations!!!!!

Tammy and Mary I know the two of you are proponets of robo-quoting, but this should be a call to action and outrage to both of you.

DavidG, can we get some help on this?
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June 04
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Thank you for pointing that out Chip.  I have emailed Zillow concerning this and hopefully they will address it.  Ironically I ended up on this thread because I was doing reseach on the API companies trying to decide if it was a good idea or not.  Your discovery has answered my question!
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June 05
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Since January 2009

Thanks for discovering this FRAUD Chip. Zillow, when the quoter can apply thier own MI factor, in this case it's .41% compared to Zillow's .52%, then the SYSTEM IS BROKE. You need to hire someone with a MORTGAGE BACKGROUND, not just some computer tech person to fix this mess. Chip says:

Obviously Pentagon FCU enjoys the competitive advantage, but is quick to note its not there fault, just call us.


They may claim it's not their fault but someone HAS to be giving a muliplier to calculate the MI and since we know Zillow uses .52% on an 85%-90% LTV, we now know they are in control of calculating their own MI payments which gives them the lowest payment AND false APR.
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June 05
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Since January 2009

Edit Button:
thier = their
muliplier = multiplierIt's harder to type while throwing up.
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June 05
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Since January 2009

Tamme,The reason it is bigger issue on Robo quoters than on manual quoters is the speed and number of bad quotes a robo quoter can send out.  No doubt many manual quoters are just as deceptive the difference is they can't blanket the country while they sit in an office and devise another way to scam the system all the while 100's of misleading quotes are being sent out!

P.S.

I really do not believe zillow cares about the accuracy of the quotes that are issued.  This junk has gone on and been a topic of conversation since ZMM came into being and the same junk continues to happen.  Sometimes you just have to accept the things we cannot change...
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June 05

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