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Replies (17)
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2568
I think that the American dream has always been about security (having ability to meet basic needs and to attain some of our wants). What has changed overtime is what that means. Those core goals of the American dream has been unchanged since the American Revolution. What the author of the article is lamenting the end of the mid to late 20th century particulars of the American dream. Those particulars were very different from the particulars at the beginning of the 20 century, just as those particulars were different from the mid-19th century and so forth.
There have been other times when due to economic turmoil, "manifest destiny", when the American dream was that of a much more transient society. I think the reality of the American dream has always been about achieving that place where we meet more than our basic needs. In many ways I think the need to own property was tied to our agrarian past where it significantly improved our odds of achieving the economic/financial portion of that security. In our post industrial revolution society where many people enjoy relocating for personal growth (just as they have at different times in the past) and for career purposes home ownership may work against our economic/financial security. It is not that the American Dream is dying, it just the particulars of the American Dream are changing.
While it may not be true for everyone, and I can certainly understand that it is rapidly becoming out of reach for many people and their children, but higher education has certainly been a major component of my personal growth and as such an important part of my American Dream.
I'm not sure how to take the last paragraph about self-sufficiency. I thought that had been an important component of the American dream since well before the American Revolution. If it is coming back into wider acceptance as a primary requirement of the American Dream, that would be a positive as well as proof that the American Dream is alive and well. In my opinion community collectivism and entitlement have never been the embodiment or the American Dream, it has always been purported to be one of rugged individualism.
There have been other times when due to economic turmoil, "manifest destiny", when the American dream was that of a much more transient society. I think the reality of the American dream has always been about achieving that place where we meet more than our basic needs. In many ways I think the need to own property was tied to our agrarian past where it significantly improved our odds of achieving the economic/financial portion of that security. In our post industrial revolution society where many people enjoy relocating for personal growth (just as they have at different times in the past) and for career purposes home ownership may work against our economic/financial security. It is not that the American Dream is dying, it just the particulars of the American Dream are changing.
While it may not be true for everyone, and I can certainly understand that it is rapidly becoming out of reach for many people and their children, but higher education has certainly been a major component of my personal growth and as such an important part of my American Dream.
I'm not sure how to take the last paragraph about self-sufficiency. I thought that had been an important component of the American dream since well before the American Revolution. If it is coming back into wider acceptance as a primary requirement of the American Dream, that would be a positive as well as proof that the American Dream is alive and well. In my opinion community collectivism and entitlement have never been the embodiment or the American Dream, it has always been purported to be one of rugged individualism.
- Shawn Ryan Rosa, "sryan1980"
- Contributions:494
The American dream has certainly lost some of its luster in recent years. In uncertain economic times, banks will not let you tap into your home equity (if you have any) because they fear that you home will lose its value. Also, politicans have started to talk about wiping out tax deductions related to mortgage interest.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2568
Interesting Shawn, I never knew that the American Dream was about the ability to take on more debt. There is a reason we can no longer live off currency inflation, it is simple wage growth and general inflation pretty much stalled 10 or so year ago. Unfortunately the lenders did not take the lack there of into consideration until 5 years ago.
The American Dream needs economically viable products and services that can be traded with the rest of the world to survive. Taking on more foreign debt so that we can sell each other over the long term more foreign made products services than we export will stop eventually.
Shawn, do you have a back up career? Our economy and the American Dream suffers greatly from a surplus of sales people?
The American Dream needs economically viable products and services that can be traded with the rest of the world to survive. Taking on more foreign debt so that we can sell each other over the long term more foreign made products services than we export will stop eventually.
Shawn, do you have a back up career? Our economy and the American Dream suffers greatly from a surplus of sales people?
- Linda Strasberg, "L Strasberg"
- Contributions:2315
The American Dream is about paying down your debt as quickly as possible and living your life in quiet enjoyment
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3463
Unfortunately, the overall American Dream, meaning the success of our social experiment, has become all about leveraging debt, which is collateralized by all sorts of assets, whose values were creatively improperly determined. If it weren't for debt leveraging, we would have been having this "broken dream" conversation in 2002, maybe in 1992, instead of 2011. The GDP of America has been overly dependent on debt leveraging for at least three decades. Wall Street's schemes, and various other info age/service economy BS piles, are our major economic export product
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4691
The American dream is to be left alone and to do what you want without interference from anyone as long as you behave well towards others.
Sadly, the government is not allowing that to happen like it should.
Sadly, the government is not allowing that to happen like it should.
- PukonYukon
- Contributions:173
For my family the american dream was very simple.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursiut of Happiness.
it does not say you are guaranteed Happiness, that you get to own property, only that you are entitled to TRY for it. it is not about having personal fullfillment by what is given to you, it is about that it doesn't matter who you are, if you work you can achieve. It is not about what the government can "make" the market do for you.
My family was very poor, they struggled to send us to college and make it in America. We all worked hard to achieve and pursue happiness. This is the American dream. We get the chance to make it and not have someone tell us because we were born in another class that we must live to serve them and place the bricks on their streets while we live in shacks. All men are created equal. We do not treat each other with equality at times but the laws of this land protect that right. It is a right not a priviliedge to be equals. If you do not own property, it is not an invasion of your right you still have the right to pursue it and fix whatever is the reason you can not own it now. One person's pursuit of happiness might not be to own property, but to be free to relocate easily. One person's pursuit of happiness might be to have a gas station in a small town with friendly people. Both persons have the right to try this. It does not mean either is a good or bad idea, only that they can decide.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursiut of Happiness.
it does not say you are guaranteed Happiness, that you get to own property, only that you are entitled to TRY for it. it is not about having personal fullfillment by what is given to you, it is about that it doesn't matter who you are, if you work you can achieve. It is not about what the government can "make" the market do for you.
My family was very poor, they struggled to send us to college and make it in America. We all worked hard to achieve and pursue happiness. This is the American dream. We get the chance to make it and not have someone tell us because we were born in another class that we must live to serve them and place the bricks on their streets while we live in shacks. All men are created equal. We do not treat each other with equality at times but the laws of this land protect that right. It is a right not a priviliedge to be equals. If you do not own property, it is not an invasion of your right you still have the right to pursue it and fix whatever is the reason you can not own it now. One person's pursuit of happiness might not be to own property, but to be free to relocate easily. One person's pursuit of happiness might be to have a gas station in a small town with friendly people. Both persons have the right to try this. It does not mean either is a good or bad idea, only that they can decide.
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4691
When I was in high school and into my early 20's there were 3 things I wanted. These were my dreams as an American.
1 get an extended cab truck
2 have a (very small) business of my own.
3 to marry
I never thought of buying a house back then as a big dream. Buying a house was more something that would happen when the time was right. Come to think of it, the 3 things I did have as dreams also happened (or not <to leave viewers wondering>) when the time was right.
I never had a dream of making a ton of money with my own business. I just wanted to be able to control my own destiny and be financially stable. Every truck I have owned and driven since then (not including parts trucks) has been an extended cab.
1 get an extended cab truck
2 have a (very small) business of my own.
3 to marry
I never thought of buying a house back then as a big dream. Buying a house was more something that would happen when the time was right. Come to think of it, the 3 things I did have as dreams also happened (or not <to leave viewers wondering>) when the time was right.
I never had a dream of making a ton of money with my own business. I just wanted to be able to control my own destiny and be financially stable. Every truck I have owned and driven since then (not including parts trucks) has been an extended cab.
- Shawn Ryan Rosa, "sryan1980"
- Contributions:494
the bottom line is that the American dream is not for everyone. We have to come around to the fact that homeownership is only for those with steady income, a downpaynment (so they are investmented in the home), and good credit.
- G. Todd Young, "SellsMoreHomes"
- Contributions:30
The "New Normal".. we are learning all kinds of new ways to adapt to what we once took for granted. The American Dream is still out there to obtain. It looks different than it did to our parents. "Your" American Dream is what ever you want it to be. Fight for your dreams, don't get caught up in all the negative press. Make you day, year, life the dream you want to live. Put positive mojo back in your stride. Go for it!!
- Joan Braunschweiger, "Morris County NJ"
- Contributions:1543
Tug, I was wondering if you would consider giving PukonYukon a BA. I think that post deserves a BA on so many levels.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21441
I see two "American dreams", neither of which has ever really been fulfilled for most people:
1) The words on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free, the wretched refuse of the teaming shore, send them the lonely tempest tossed to me". Until we open the borders and streamline visa and citizenship process, this can never be fulfilled. And "all people" will never be considered "equal", unless the citizenship process becomes more equitable.
2) Liberty.... meaning "not a slave to a paycheck"... meaning "not being told that you have no right to sleep anywhere, but in jail or in prison or in a homeless shelter". Meaning not being told where you have to be at a given time. Meaning "education" should not be "mandatory", but a choice. Meaning that people should not be kicked off of public lands when they don't pay massive fees. Meaning people should be able to explore and live off the land, like John Muir. Meaning that people should not be asked for identification just because they are in a public space.
1) The words on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free, the wretched refuse of the teaming shore, send them the lonely tempest tossed to me". Until we open the borders and streamline visa and citizenship process, this can never be fulfilled. And "all people" will never be considered "equal", unless the citizenship process becomes more equitable.
2) Liberty.... meaning "not a slave to a paycheck"... meaning "not being told that you have no right to sleep anywhere, but in jail or in prison or in a homeless shelter". Meaning not being told where you have to be at a given time. Meaning "education" should not be "mandatory", but a choice. Meaning that people should not be kicked off of public lands when they don't pay massive fees. Meaning people should be able to explore and live off the land, like John Muir. Meaning that people should not be asked for identification just because they are in a public space.
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1938
Joan if I could I would..it's a Discussion so I can't
I do agree it deserves one
So Pukon Yukon this is for you...
Thank you & I wish I could give you a Best Answer..
I do agree it deserves one
So Pukon Yukon this is for you...
Thank you & I wish I could give you a Best Answer..
- Joan Braunschweiger, "Morris County NJ"
- Contributions:1543
BEST ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!
By PukonYukon
By PukonYukon
"For my family the american dream was very simple.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursiut of Happiness.
it does not say you are guaranteed Happiness, that you get to own property, only that you are entitled to TRY for it. it is not about having personal fullfillment by what is given to you, it is about that it doesn't matter who you are, if you work you can achieve. It is not about what the government can "make" the market do for you.
My family was very poor, they struggled to send us to college and make it in America. We all worked hard to achieve and pursue happiness. This is the American dream. We get the chance to make it and not have someone tell us because we were born in another class that we must live to serve them and place the bricks on their streets while we live in shacks. All men are created equal. We do not treat each other with equality at times but the laws of this land protect that right. It is a right not a priviliedge to be equals. If you do not own property, it is not an invasion of your right you still have the right to pursue it and fix whatever is the reason you can not own it now. One person's pursuit of happiness might not be to own property, but to be free to relocate easily. One person's pursuit of happiness might be to have a gas station in a small town with friendly people. Both persons have the right to try this. It does not mean either is a good or bad idea, only that they can decide."
BEST ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursiut of Happiness.
it does not say you are guaranteed Happiness, that you get to own property, only that you are entitled to TRY for it. it is not about having personal fullfillment by what is given to you, it is about that it doesn't matter who you are, if you work you can achieve. It is not about what the government can "make" the market do for you.
My family was very poor, they struggled to send us to college and make it in America. We all worked hard to achieve and pursue happiness. This is the American dream. We get the chance to make it and not have someone tell us because we were born in another class that we must live to serve them and place the bricks on their streets while we live in shacks. All men are created equal. We do not treat each other with equality at times but the laws of this land protect that right. It is a right not a priviliedge to be equals. If you do not own property, it is not an invasion of your right you still have the right to pursue it and fix whatever is the reason you can not own it now. One person's pursuit of happiness might not be to own property, but to be free to relocate easily. One person's pursuit of happiness might be to have a gas station in a small town with friendly people. Both persons have the right to try this. It does not mean either is a good or bad idea, only that they can decide."
BEST ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Mack McCoy
- Contributions:1111
The "American Dream" you reference was always somebody else's dream. A writer, usually in a big city, writing for a big-city magazine or newspaper syndication.
I don't buy into that notion of a "national dream." People are individuals, and while many share certain characteristics - many parents want their children to attend college, for example - we also have to recognize that the writers of the day do not define us; at best, they represent a subset of the population. But mostly, they are writing to attract attention, so that their publishers can sell you whatever product their advertisers want you to buy.
I don't buy into that notion of a "national dream." People are individuals, and while many share certain characteristics - many parents want their children to attend college, for example - we also have to recognize that the writers of the day do not define us; at best, they represent a subset of the population. But mostly, they are writing to attract attention, so that their publishers can sell you whatever product their advertisers want you to buy.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21441
Well Mack, for once I agree with you.
- Mack McCoy
- Contributions:1111
Ah, we probably agree a dozen times!
American Dream Deferred: Downgrading the American Dream
"As conceptual ideals go, the American Dream is pretty iconic. And for a long time, it was pretty easy to define: People worked to earn a college degree, get a good job, buy a house and have a spouse and kids. But then the Great Recession came along and upended everything. Now, our goals are more modest — like having a financial safety net — but are still out of reach for many Americans, especially those approaching retirement age. Nearly half — 44% — of Americans say they're working harder than their parents did at their age. In MetLife's fifth annual survey about the American Dream, more than 80% of respondents say attaining the American Dream is very or somewhat important, but the yardstick we've used to measure whether or not we're living that dream has changed drastically. Some of the shift is generational: 41% of all respondents say the American Dream is about personal fulfillment. But within that total, there's a big gap. While only a third of Boomers agree with that statement, more than half of Gen Y respondents do.
Our outlook about wealth and material possessions has changed, too. Roughly three-quarters of us say we have what we need, but last year, only 58% of respondents agreed with that assessment. Nearly two-thirds say it's possible to achieve the American Dream without a college degree; 59% say it can be done without owning a home. An even larger percentage — 70% — say it's within reach even if you're not wealthy or don't have kids, a stark contrast from traditional thinking, says Beth Hirshhorn, MetLife chief marketing officer.
"They're shifting from the traditional definition of a nuclear family to broader relationships," she says"
"
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