Brokers not including apprasial fees, c/r, u/w, etc..

Tammy, I know what you're saying...it is confusing for everyone and Zillow does warn borrwoers that will be 3rd Parties fees involved.

Zillow need to add a 3rd Party Category for:

Closing Attorney/Agent, Appraiser, Title Insurance, & Credit Reporting, Estimated Prepaid, Escrow Items & Government Taxes/Fees, home insurance and property taxes for the first few months, and interest that is due for the first partial month....but most lenders won't know these exactly fees before sending a GFE.

These are not Lenders' Fees.

And Yes... I included Origination and discount Points when applicable.

Plus I do post the following message on every of my quotes:

Closing Attorney/Agent, Appraiser, Title Insurance, & Credit Reporting. These fees are not paid to Amerisave. Title insurance, closing fees and attorney fees are paid to your closing attorney/agent. The appraisal fee is paid to your appraiser for the appraisal of your property.

Estimated Prepaid, Escrow Items & Government Taxes/Fees can vary significantly based on the location of the property. This covers your home insurance and property taxes for the first few months. If you do not want to pay for home insurance or property taxes at closing, you can choose to waive escrows/impounds. This also covers interest that is due for the first partial month. These are exactly the same for all mortgage companies.

I know probably most people won't read the details and have most of their attention on Rates...

which some lenders can have the lowest rate charging a multitude of Discount Points.

I think there is far too much BS when it comes to the quotes and the reviews.

Guys quoting 5/1 arm prices, and calling them 'fixed' .

Guys watering down the fees on the quote to the point where there is no way the lender can make a nickel off the loan. Probably LOSE money in fact.

The grandaddy of them all is having 50 perfect reviews, all to find out 49 of them didnt even go forward with the application, let alone close the loan.

Zillow should have a comments section for each lender for folks who got friendly advise and helpfull tips.

But the actual reviews need to be from borrowers who went ahead and signed the application and proceeded with the loan. 

Furthermore, the quotes must also include all 3rd party fees, plus predicted impounds .

The FULL closing costs.

Tom you are very bitter about the reviews and ratings? Dont be bitter, be BETTER!

I think it would be unwise to include title, etc fees. There are no way to know those - especially on a  purchase where the title costs are often dictated by the sellers selection of title and what is in the contract. Right now it is pretty fair regarding title, etc. I agree there is some abuse, but also for some things such as credit report - etc, I don't charge for that. When it comes to appraisal there is room for abuse as well, because appraisals can vary depending on who does it.

Tammy, you shouldn't get annoying if you always says on your quotes:
"I do not "guarantee" the lowest rate or fees." 

You're already saying that other Lenders have lower or better fees.

This is one example:
Origination fee:   $2,603 (0.75 %)
Broker Fee:         $115
Processing Fee:     $595
Underwriting Fee:   $889
Total Lender Fees:  $4,202
Based on a Refi Cash Out in CO:
30 yr fixed, 6.25%
Excellent Credit
Estimated property value:
    $427,500
Mortgage balance:
    $277,000
Additional cash out:
    $70,000

I'm not surprised that other lenders can be more competitive and what is making your quotes much higher is not the simple fact other lenders are not posting appraisals and credit reports.... It's your Lender Fees...some Lenders/Brokers have In-House Underwriting cutting some fees off.

Not every lender charges underwriting fees, broker fees, processing fees and discount points. In the example above your rate was better than others but with more fees.

Amerisave

Those are very reasonable fees.

You should quote the title fees. Dont you work with a title company or 2 or 4?

However, then some guy will quote

5.875% fixed.

Origination fee  =  .75  $2,603

Broker fee = 0

Processing fee = 325

Underwriting fee = 495

Total lender fees = $3423 

Better yet

6.125% fixed

origination fee = 0

broker fee = 0

processing fee = 0

underwriting fee = 0

Total lender fee = 0

We can do this dance all day. Thats why you guys have a 'hall of shame' .

And in the end, the borrower doesnt know the difference. Even if he suspects he is being lowballed, the WILL STILL CALL TO SEE IF ITS SOMEHOW TRUE .

So until something changes, nothing changes.

.....Tom you are very bitter about the reviews and ratings? Dont be bitter, be BETTER...............

Yes I know. Keep promoting the ILLUSION that low balling brokers have a MAGIC LENDER that none of the rest of us have. Thats what it always comes down to. Lowballing .

a MAGIC title company.  A MAGIC appraiser. A MAGIC underwriter and processor.

You are prepared to do the loan for $5 per hour. .........................Until the final HUD papers that is.

Tammy, I usually only quote the Origination, appraisal, and U/W fee. That is because I total up all of the lenders fees and put 1 number in the U/W box. As far as my processing fee goes, I cover that from my premium. I also sometimes split my Origination with the premium or have no origination and just make it in premium. Personally I do not like to have every little lender fee, on top of a $400 processing fee, on top of a $200 mortgage broker fee, lined up down the quote or the HUD. I got tired of explaining what a $78 tax cert was and why they had to pay it so I just say all of the lenders fees are X and it may include U/W, Admin, Tax Cert, etc.   

I just checked out your fees Tammy and would say they are on the high side for this type of lead/service. My fees listed on every quote are the same. $375 Application Fee, $999 Broker Fee and the appraisal fee specific to the property and location. I quote a rate pretty close to par on most depending on credit score. Some may feel I am giving my services away but I always get referrals and would rather have a smaller piece of a bigger pie.

Amerisave, my quote INCLUDES all lender fees, appraisal and my fees.  You are not getting the point of this thread.  It is about those who DO NOT include any fees, or only partial fees.  Those that leave out u/w, appraisal, c/r, etc.  How am I supposed to leave out an U/W fee, it's not my fee, it is the lenders fee in who I am quoting.  I, infact, break down the lenders fees in my notes.  I'm not just pulling it out of my a^^.

I don't want to quote title, escrows and prepaid int, I want to quote the fees in the 800 section, the way it's supposed to show on the GFE. 

CC/Ameri- I quote as close to par as can be, as for what I quote for lender fees, those are what the lender charges, same with the appraisal.  How are they high?  It is the actual cost.  Look at the other quotes, they show no apprasial, no c/r, etc., of course my fees look higher.  I disclose everything but title, escrows and prepaids. 

Let me clarify, U/W fee for $889 IS the actual cost to the particular lender that I quoted.  It includes u/w, mers, tax, flood, etc) and it is addressed as such in my notes.  My fees look higher because I am including the whole 800 section of the GFE.

Tammy, If the other LO's are not showing an appraisal or U/W fee, and their rate is the same as yours, then they are just bogus. I did see a quote that had no appraisal fee and when questioned in the discussion board, he stated since the borrower would pay for the appraisal at the door, he just left it blank. That's BS. If the others are moving their rate up to cover orig and/or fees, or if they move it up enough to pay all of the closing costs, that's a different story.

UL, but when the rate is the same or within an eight of mine, and I quote at par, I know they are not covering those fees in the rate.

i.e.  6.25% (same as my rate)

Here are there fees

1700 orig

40 tax

Thats it.  My rate was at par.

Better yet, .125 higher than me so rate is 6.375% on a cashout $347k loan with excellent credit.

only fees:

c/r $12

tax $69

u/w $475

TOTAL FEES $556.  I mean seriously.

Ok, I agree with you! I went to Colorado, looked at the $170,000 deal and several others the same LO quoted and I dont know how he can only charge that either. I think he did quote 1% orig on the 347K  c/o loan, though. I assume you are using PF for the 30 yr loans and the 889 U/W fee, which is the cheapest rate I know of. Maybe he is using the 12 day rate, quoting 15 on his quote all the time knowing he cant do 15 days anyway. My last PF sheet showed 1.125 for 12 days but was cut .125 at the end of the day. On 30 days, I would guess the ysp to be aprx .75 so he would have to cover the $889 from that. $2970 - $889 = $2081 check. That's pretty thin!      

You think that is thin?  In TX I go up against three guys that quote every deal with their gross at between $1,000.00 and $1,500.00.  That is when they don't miss the midday repricing, and wind up giving a quote they would have to pay to close.  One of them always leaves off the appraisal.  Not sure if he pays it out of his fees or not, but when his rate is par and the broker fees total $1,500.00... 

Is it possible the lender that you are competing against is funding as a correspondent and getting an extra point YSP and paying those fees? Just trying to be fair...

Whitman

I use correspondant and broker channels.

Lowballing is lowballing. Its a quote that you and I then price, and find out there is no way its possible .

Its somehow justified by knowing a secret 'magic lender' who will allow you to do 6.125% at par with NO CLOSING COSTS at all.

I think other lenders should be able to comment on the quote.

The problem with commenting on quotes is that you do not know WHEN someone took the money down.  I know that in the Broker world the money is locked to the property, not to the borrower (for the most part).  In the Correspondent world, I could have taken down a mandatory commitment for a 7/31 delivery into a 5.500% note rate coupon 2 weeks ago (which would give me rate delivery options of 5.750% to 6.375% for example on a 30 year fixed) and be making about 150 bps more than current market on those same best efforts rates.  I could have blocked out $1 million or so and then delivered ANY full doc loan into this commitment as it is not tied to borrower or property -- is tied to the security.

You just do not know the hedging / secondary positions that various lenders have taken -- and at the same time some of those "6.125% no fees and I am serving you breakfast in bed for a month" may not exist whatsoever in those exact terms.

You just do not know.....

DP

Dream Home, that is unfortunate. Tammy's example is about as low as I see but not everyday. I agree with WhitmanMet that they are probably getting more premium but I have never seen any correspondent get more than .25 or .375. Any correspondents care to share what the diff in PF wholesale and Correspondent premiums are? Dream Home, does their profile say they are an  LO or a Mortgage Banker? Tom makes a good point that they may not honor any quote they put out there anyway. Dave also makes a good point IF they are set up that way and not a broker.

Seattle broker - Re read the post. $999 + $375 + Rate with YSP depending on credit score. This is my model for zillow and it is working fine for me. In my experience with online borrowers if your fees are too high you will price yourself right out of the process. Since I get 100% others may have to charge more for the same net effect. It's all about volume.

I feel zillow should make the only fees disclosed as the ones the broker is getting paid on. This way every one can compare apples to apples. I will disclose whatever they require, just my 2 cents.

Tammy - I was looking at your fees as your company fees. That is why I said they were high. My mistake. I did notice your credit report fee was $35, even with one borrower? That does seem high but not a big deal. If your disclosing every fee and your competitiors are not, your not going to get a decent response. Maybe David can chime in on the minimum required fees to be listed so everyone is on a level playing field.

the only required fee to disclose are the ones you control in my opinion. Look at the competition here. They are not even disclosing origination or broker fee's. I think as a minimum we should have to disclose what we will charge the client in originatino and broker fee's. I disclose the appraisal fee and the broker/origination fee only and I'm already usually higher than my competition. They are quoting sub par pricing with no upfront fee's. But hey they have plenty of glowing reviews to make them seem legitimate...

This site is not currently for honest up front brokers. it's for lead generation purposes only. I told this to the zillow employee that followed up with me on my survey too.

As a lender you can't get all upset about the state of things. It's not in your control. Per zillow employee's i've spoken with coming here and bitching does nothing. Just keep flagging everythign you run accross and eventually you may see a difference.

We'll we are going to see just how honest these lowballers are when it comes to a GFE.  More to come later..........

UL-" $2970 - $889 = $2081 check. That's pretty thin! "  You are right, and for the sake of arguement, they have to pay a split to the managing broker, and let's say it is 50%, wow, a whopping $1040.50.  not so much.

CB,

Flag'em like the Starter at The Pepsi 400 on Sat Night in Daytona....  A big reason for the disparity is also because borrowers don't want "reality".  They want better than reality pricing.  Litech with the 2-3 point rate on Glass partitions...?  Does anyone close 2-3 point FNMA loans these days (without Seller Concessions)...?  At EverBank... 90+% of all FIXED loans were ZERO point (ALL YSP) to Brokers, so it goes to show you that most people don't want to see or hear 6.375% - 6.50%.  Look at all of us... When a wholesaler comes in... "Uh yes, can you beat this......???????"  reality is boring, so until "boring" is part of borrowing... (uses many of the same letters), but not quite... we will always see ****** and 6point font underneath, etc.  True rates are masked and disguised with Prepaid ":JUNK Fees" well in excess of $1,000.  I'm not even saying that is wrong (not for me personally), because it gives the "appearance" that someone got a rate in the 5's at the watercooler or "a good deal".  The best "deals" are only .125%-.25% in rate for the same costs... Nobody works for free even if it appears that way.  Keep bringing the goods CB and you'll shine like the tynes on your Star. It's all good.