Profile picture for SoCal Engr

Buh-bye GVDenny

  • January 22 2010 - US
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    Answers (101)

    Hopefully they'll let him back on here in a few weeks once both sides have had a chance to cool down.  Booting a lender for standing up to the moderators of the site doesn't site well with the majority of us.
    • January 22 2010
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    What is happening?

    • January 22 2010
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    Is is safe to post in this thread?

    • January 22 2010
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    Greg & I didn't start off well, but I've become to like Greg very much!
    This is a BIG Shock!
    On what thread did this occur?

    Thank you, Rudi
    • January 22 2010
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    On the Sutherland thread.
    • January 22 2010
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    That magically does not exist anymore
    • January 22 2010
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    Ah the ominous 'profile not found'.
    • January 22 2010
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    I'm glad GVD posted that thread and called Sutherland out.  I hope they let him back on soon.
    • January 22 2010
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    Profile picture for OK State Lender
    I really wanted to read that thread. But I could not find it. I guess thats why.

    Can someone elaborate?

    I guess it's not democracy when you own the website. They may think they're doing the right thing, but you burn bridges with enough of them and what do you have left?

    I too had a downfall with GVD, but grew to like his enthusiasm for trying to make this a more ethical place. He was sometimes quick to judge but it was only because he has a passion for the industry and wants everyone to be as honest as he is.

    Big loss for the community... 
    • January 22 2010
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    Went back 6 pages. Cannot find a thread entitled Sutherland.

    GVD's Profile has been removed. I've never seen Zillow remove a thread. Shut down, but never removed.

    Can anyone provide a link? ... Thank you, Rudi
    • January 22 2010
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    It is gone...Did not even last a day.  What got lost in the drama is that Timmy never came on the thread to defend himself (even though he answered other threads while this one was active)

    • January 22 2010
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    Nice "GVD Memorial" you have set up here Socal... bet Greg would be touched.
    He'll be back, wanna bet?

    • January 22 2010
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    I may be wrong, but I think this is a 1st for Zillow! Deleting an entire thread. Man, does that make me curious!

    Left a message on GVD's V/M. Hopefully, he'll fill me in on the details.
    • January 22 2010
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    I put this one in the Sutherland thread right before it came down.   Perhaps it will also be the death of the this thread.
    • January 22 2010
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    Profile picture for OK State Lender
    He still has a profile.

    http://www.zillow.com/profile/WeFixRates.Com

    It reminds me of that "We Fix $6 Dollar Haircuts" commercial.

    I too bet that Zillow will call him and ask him to come back.

    Anyone wants to start a pool on this?
    • January 22 2010
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    I posted on the thread but found they deleted my post and the thread moments later.
    Not to take up for Tim Sutherland, but he is doing what Zillow is allowing . . .
    The contention of Zillow is that lenders can discount our zero out fees if they have enough of a SRP/YSP to do so.  This is not the right approach at all.  I have asked them, both on the threads and e-mail that this approach is not really legal.  Instead, there should be fields for lender/broker credits to offset any fees.  This is how it is done in the real world.  But, for the sake of a quote, if a lender has enough YSP/SRP to pay for fees, then the fees will either be reduced or set at zero.  There are tons of lenders who are doing it and I have to do it to in order to compete with others on Zillow.
    When I send out a quote, I can justify reducing or not showing fees by my compensation on the quote.  So, what Sutherland is doing is complying with Zillow.  Saying this, I have questioned many, many of his quotes as I know a few of SunTrust's LO's and they can't match his quotes.
    Gregorio Denny is a sharp cat and I have had many, many great conversations with him.  I don't know what happened.  Regardless, he is a honest and very ethical lender and I will continue to refer business to him when I get a request in his areas.  Nothing has changed.  I still respect, trust and admire him greatly.
    • January 22 2010
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    The douchey part is that GD quoted a few requests, the same way, and got chastised by David Gibbons, for emulating Sutherland's misleading quoting method. He appeared to be told it was unacceptable for him to do it, but it was Ok for TS. That's GDBS, if that is what happened. It is what I took from it. I further suspect that Sutherland's employer spends just enough money here, to get any of us booted if push came to shove.

    I found the thread to be edutaining, in the sense that, it illustrated that a Depository Institution Bank, is just as likely to BS a borrower, as any other source. They are given legal advantages, over Brokers, that encourage and allow them to. A consumer, who could and did, follow and comprehend the thread, would leave with an increased distrust of SunTrust, and other Banks.
    • January 22 2010
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    It's just not right...We have all disagreed with one another...Heck I have had more than one with many of the contributers on the threads..The list is long but for the most part distinguished!

    I have always felt and still do...having two people in a room trying to make a decision or come to a valuable conclusion that agree...means you have 1 too many people in the room...The best results come from disagreements not yes men!
    • January 22 2010
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    Profile picture for SoCal Engr
    Funny, now that I think about it.

    My first interaction with Gregorio was a mild flame war (back in the days when the Zillow forums were a bit more volatile)...one in which I even went to his website and brought in extra ammo for my side of the flame.

    My last real interaction was early in 2009, when he handled my refi - and did a great job.

    For what it's worth, he wasn't afraid to voice an opinion. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and we'll see him flame someone else one of these days.
    • January 22 2010
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    From what I gathered GVD was ticked because Sutherland had some misleading quotes with 0 fees, but apparently they were OK'd by the Zillow staff because Sutherland provided notes to the borrower that lender fees were being credited out of YSP.
    GVD laid out some quotes with 0 fees and notes explaining the costs were rebated but got called on it by one of the Zillow staff.
    To GVD it appeared his quotes were being targeted as suspect by staff while Sutherlands were condoned, and GVD made a comment that there might have been "other reasons" that I won't go into.

    Hopefully both sides will cool down and GVD will be back. I think a lot of people respected his opinions and advice. He certainly knows a heck of a lot more about the mortgage business than many other lenders here, and has enlightened Zillow about the mortgage business as well.

    I don't know if I have 100% of the facts but as I said...that's what I took out of the conversation before the thread got deleted.
    • January 22 2010
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    If the case is that Gregorio did the same as TS then it is wrong.  Again, I don't know the whole story as I am have been very active on the threads due to the enormous time spent on quotes, settlements and fixing what the investors want on the new 2010 GFE's.  It is mind boggling to say the least.
    GVD is a very good lener, who will always give the consumer a very good quote and stand behind it as well.
    Nothing has changed with my relationship with him at all.
    • January 22 2010
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    If this is a tussle, so to speak, then I ask Zillow to look into one of Tim Suterland's reviews:  This is my comment to Zillow:

    Now, this is an untrue review if validated by Zillow.  It is dated 11/04/209.

    How can a lender close a loan the within the same day?  Even so, it is not allowed for a Zillow borrower to post a review after the fact unless it can be proved that the lender posted a quote and the borrower responded.  I ask that Zillow investigate this review as I think it is not valid.  Take a look at the verbiage of the review: 
    "Tim was excellent through the entire loan application as well as the closing process; always available; knowledgeable; honest. His assistant Donna was great too."
    So, now Zillow is allowing fake reviews?  The penalty, per David G, is immediate termination.  I expect the same whether it is from a broker or a lender.
    • January 22 2010
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    Profile picture for Mike Politzer
    I followed this. Let me start off by saying that it's wrong that he got kicked off. However, when I looked at the quotes where he copied TS's technique, he did not indicate in the notes that the fees were being rebated. Maybe an oversight, or I missed it when I read them. But that's not why he was booted - it was the intensity of the exchanges between him and Z that appears to be the issue.

    Regarding the fake review issue that Greg raises. I've raised this question in the past as well. As it's been explained to me a review can come in the same day a borrower "registers", which can be well after when they iniitially ask for and receive a quote. Points again to the need to require registration, but, from what I gather, Zillow is going the other direction, to try to garner more requests, not qualified requests.
    • January 22 2010
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    Hi Mike,
    It has never been asked that we, as lenders on Zillow, to put in our notes that we have to say we are or are not reducing fees based on our SRP or YSP.  I have never done so.  Though Tim S., obliterates fees, allegedly based on his SRP, then it is allowed per Zillow.  If GVD did the same then what is the problem?
    Reviews, to my understanding, have to be from Zillow borrowers who post a loan request and the lender has to quote, Zillow borrower has to contact Zillow approved lender.  If a lender goes through the whole loan process----application to closing, then asks the Zillow borrower to post a request, Zillow approved lender quotes it, then the review is writtten----it is my understanding that it cannot happen.  Hell, I have lost more than 20 reviews because of this as many of us have.  If the above is okay, let me get busy!
    I think the fallout between GVD and Zillow is deeper than what appears.  Who knows.  Hope he comes back.  He is a smart fellow and treats his clients well.
    • January 22 2010
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    Doug is right on with what went down on that thread.

    GVD is a very passionate person and ultimately, Zillow couldn't handle that passion.

    VERY sad...love him or hate him, GVD was in incredible contributor to these forums. 

    I hope he is back soon!
    • January 22 2010
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    Profile picture for OK State Lender
    I am reading these posts and thinking to myself, If I was Zillow I would see that the majority of highly qualified, honest and ethical lenders relly liked GVD. Again, I will be the first to admit that he is very passionate about what he does and sometimes short tempered, but non the less, a good honest lender and an asset to this community. If he quoted something, I feel that he would have honored it.
    Now it seems to me that this has nothing to do with the legality of his or Tim's quoting practice. It seems to be more of a perception issue from Zillow. Zillow is not the regulating agency for mortgage quoting, but they do own the site and can boot you of if they want to. With that said, just because you can boot somone off, should you do that? What are you telling the other lenders? If you don't agree with us you get the boot. Should we now worry about what we say? Doesn't this have to do something with free speech or does that stop at a privatley owned website?


    Since some of us did not have a chance to read this thread, we are left to drawing our own conclusions. Should have just closed the thread, but leav it public.
    • January 22 2010
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    I hope he never comes back. I hope he is overwhelmed with applications, and makes 3 million dollars next year, without even opening this stupid website. But who GAFRAWIT?

    Gregorio Denny was one of the most conscientious people to ever post a word on Zillow. He couldn't care less what I think about him, or what Rudi thinks about him. He surely couldn't care less what SoCal and/or Pasdenan, or any of the other Good Samaritans of Doom, think about him. I think, he hopes David Gibbons is wary of him, and walks lightly when in his presence, but that is irrelevant.

    What is relevant, is that he gives a damn about what the customers that find him through this stupid website, think about him. That was fairly obvious.

    And to run him off, because he questioned the authority of those who he feeds, by contributing, and quoting competitive loans, etc... is akin to one's 13 year old child, locking him out of his own house. It's ignorant and backwards. To do so in favor of TS, or because TS cried and held his breath, after getting caught with his ethics exposed, is retarded.

    Remember this, genii at Zillow, Gregorio Denny is, or was, your customer, stupid. In fact, he was a good customer. And the customer is always right. Keep running the good customers off, and all you're left with is vagrants and shoplifters. That's all I'm saying.
    • January 22 2010
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    It disturbs me that folks like Mr. Denny can be punished in such an arbitrary and capricious way while other contributors who use Zillow as their own massive billboard are allowed to stay.

    No doubt Mr. Denny has a 'passionate' personality. But it's takes a passion for your work to spend hours on Zillow educating and informing consumers while expecting nothing in return. Meanwhile I spend way too much time on Zillow flagging others who contribute nothing to the education of consumers and only seek to line their pockets. So if Mr Denny felt frustrated that others might be misusing Zillow for their own financial gain, I certainly feel his frustration.

    But of course we may never know the circumstances of his departure. Let's hope it's a just a time out in the corner and not a lifetime banishment.
    • January 22 2010
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    Hamp,
    Thumbs up.

    Just don't use the phrase: "Yeah. I just went there!" in a fit of rage on a thread defending your new-found method of quoting (same of which were provided by the non-banished Mr TS) and believing the sanctions against you may have been motivated by reasons-that-shall-not-be-mentioned.

    Otherwise you may be escorted from Oz
    • January 22 2010
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    sorry, could not let this hit page two of the threads
    • January 23 2010
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