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Answers (16)
- Matthew Reichlin, "matthewreichlin"
- Contributions:11
There are many factors to consider. Were the comps bank owned, short sales or regular sales. IF they were short sales, add 10% or so to the actual value. If they are bank owned, then maybe 3%. Is the house you want a bank owned, short sale, or regular?
If it is a short sale, by all means, offer as low as you can get them to take, but keep in mind you will probably only get 10% off market value. If it is a bank owned property, it is very unlikely they will come down much, however, if it has been on the market for 50 days, look at the history. It is likely they did one price drop of $10K after a month, then another will be in 60 days after being first listed. ASo, if it has been 56 days, that is a great time to make a low offer of about $10K less than asking price plus asking for closing costs. That way, you can be in the middle of negotiating when they do the price drop, and jump right on the new price and beat out other buyers.
Once it gets below $300K it may well get multiple offers.
Have to disagree about market time. It is an illusion. Any home in the Seattle area that is not a short sale will bring an offer in days or 3 weeks at the most if it is price right. The only reason homes take longer is that they start at a price that is too high and come down gradually.
But if it is not a bank owned property, and they have not reduced the price in 50 days, there may be a reason. It is a mistake to assume if it has been on the market a while that they will take a lot less. It may well be an indication that they are unable or unwilling to take less than their asking price. Being on the market a long time at the same price may be a sing or an unrealistic or stubborn seller who will not come down a penny.
If it is a bank owned property, your agent might be wise in telling you it is pointless to offer less, however, if you are willing to come up more, no harm in putting in a low starting offer and negotiating. Unless, of course, there are other people likely to buy it. Then don't mess around and offer a fair price if you want it.
If it is a short sale, by all means, offer as low as you can get them to take, but keep in mind you will probably only get 10% off market value. If it is a bank owned property, it is very unlikely they will come down much, however, if it has been on the market for 50 days, look at the history. It is likely they did one price drop of $10K after a month, then another will be in 60 days after being first listed. ASo, if it has been 56 days, that is a great time to make a low offer of about $10K less than asking price plus asking for closing costs. That way, you can be in the middle of negotiating when they do the price drop, and jump right on the new price and beat out other buyers.
Once it gets below $300K it may well get multiple offers.
Have to disagree about market time. It is an illusion. Any home in the Seattle area that is not a short sale will bring an offer in days or 3 weeks at the most if it is price right. The only reason homes take longer is that they start at a price that is too high and come down gradually.
But if it is not a bank owned property, and they have not reduced the price in 50 days, there may be a reason. It is a mistake to assume if it has been on the market a while that they will take a lot less. It may well be an indication that they are unable or unwilling to take less than their asking price. Being on the market a long time at the same price may be a sing or an unrealistic or stubborn seller who will not come down a penny.
If it is a bank owned property, your agent might be wise in telling you it is pointless to offer less, however, if you are willing to come up more, no harm in putting in a low starting offer and negotiating. Unless, of course, there are other people likely to buy it. Then don't mess around and offer a fair price if you want it.
- Michelle Carr-Crowe, "lynbrookhomes1"
- Contributions:533
Did you actually make a written offer? What was the response?
You may have a valid point about price, however seller may have said "no way." Some sellers may hold out for a particular price. Others may not want to take a loss.
Have a frank talk with your agent to find out what's happening. Your goal is to buy a house, your agent's goal should be to help you actually get it.
You may have a valid point about price, however seller may have said "no way." Some sellers may hold out for a particular price. Others may not want to take a loss.
Have a frank talk with your agent to find out what's happening. Your goal is to buy a house, your agent's goal should be to help you actually get it.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25127
I agree with Ofe. Looking at comps together may help, but if you don't have a good relationship or a signed contract you may need another agent.
- Ofe Polack, "Ofe Polack"
- Contributions:1416
Hi coodle, I think at this point it will be a good idea if you and your agent were to sit down in front of the computer and look at the comps together so that you are satisfied that you have a good comparative market analysis. Once that is done and you both agree to one price, then move on. Having said that, if you begin to distrust your agent, and you do not have a signed contract, either go "solo" or find another agent. You are just beginning the transaction and without a good relationship, I would not continue. Good luck!
- Charles Hewitt, "Charles Hewitt"
- Contributions:10
A lot depends on how your agent is working for you. Do you have a written Buyer's Agent agreement with them? If so, their fiduciary duty and loyalty is to you, which means when acting, they must always be acting in your best interest at your direction, until either one of you terminate the agreement.
Absent a Buyer's Agent Agreement, agents by default work as Seller's Agents, which means they are working in the best interest of the seller. Keep this in mind as you decide on your next step.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25127
I would not contact the listing agent directly, but I would tell your agent that you do not feel comfortable offering 315K. You need to base you decision on the recently sold comps and the current trend of the market which is still seems to be moving down right now.
If your agent is uncomfortable or refuses to make a reasonable offer, then you may need another agent. Most agents do not like to lowball. However, your agent works for you and if you have a solid reason to offer less, they need to listen to that. Hold your ground and offer what you feel is fair. After all, your agent will not be the one paying your mortgage.
If your agent is uncomfortable or refuses to make a reasonable offer, then you may need another agent. Most agents do not like to lowball. However, your agent works for you and if you have a solid reason to offer less, they need to listen to that. Hold your ground and offer what you feel is fair. After all, your agent will not be the one paying your mortgage.
- Sharon Lewis, "SharonLewisHomes.com"
- Contributions:13
Why dont you simply sit down with the agent, have him open the mls, show you what has sold in the last three months, what is currently for sale and then make your offer. That agent may be misunderstanding your needs. When a buyer asks us to submit an offer, thats what we do, that is why we are buyers agents.
Best of luck to you.
Best of luck to you.
- Ryan Halset, "RyanHalset"
- Contributions:730
Hi Coodle,
I'll throw in my 2 cents since I know the Greenwood area. Prices have only come down about 6% in Seattle since last year, so if a family paid $335k last year - $315k would be in line with that. That said - that's a pretty broad stroke since values depend on the comparable sales, condition, the local market, etc...but may help shed some light. 50 days on the market is still below average for King County...so 20% off for being on the market for less than 2 months (as you indicated in another post) would not (generally) be in-line with our area unless the listing were vastly overpriced or the sellers were extremely motivated to sell.
In my opinion, when I'm working as a buyer's agent - I want to get my buyer the lowest price possible. If you feel comfortable at $290k, I don't see a problem with writing up an offer at that - as long as you know the sellers will likely counter-offer at a much higher price. If I think an offer will offend the sellers or hurt my buyer's chances of actually getting the home they love, I'll put together a list of homes that have sold (which should be done regardless of what offer you put in) to make sure our offer is based on sales that an appraiser would likely look at...but in this market, most sellers are just happy to get an offer, have something to negotiate, and you have to start at a level where you feel comfortable.
Also - yes, you can (with the seller's permission) hire an inspector to inspect the property prior to putting in an offer. I would welcome that as a listing agent, because then you could get rid of the inspection contingency in your offer (making it stronger).
Lastly, I wouldn't go negotiating it yourself. You don't want to give anything to the listing agent that they could then use against you (whether financial, emotional - good or bad, etc.). Whenever I actually meet the buyers (or sellers), I feel like I can have a better shot at negotiating a price for my clients because I've been able to read their body language, gauge their motivation, etc. If negotiating is an issue, ask that your agent's broker step in and assist in presenting the offer along with your agent.
I'll throw in my 2 cents since I know the Greenwood area. Prices have only come down about 6% in Seattle since last year, so if a family paid $335k last year - $315k would be in line with that. That said - that's a pretty broad stroke since values depend on the comparable sales, condition, the local market, etc...but may help shed some light. 50 days on the market is still below average for King County...so 20% off for being on the market for less than 2 months (as you indicated in another post) would not (generally) be in-line with our area unless the listing were vastly overpriced or the sellers were extremely motivated to sell.
In my opinion, when I'm working as a buyer's agent - I want to get my buyer the lowest price possible. If you feel comfortable at $290k, I don't see a problem with writing up an offer at that - as long as you know the sellers will likely counter-offer at a much higher price. If I think an offer will offend the sellers or hurt my buyer's chances of actually getting the home they love, I'll put together a list of homes that have sold (which should be done regardless of what offer you put in) to make sure our offer is based on sales that an appraiser would likely look at...but in this market, most sellers are just happy to get an offer, have something to negotiate, and you have to start at a level where you feel comfortable.
Also - yes, you can (with the seller's permission) hire an inspector to inspect the property prior to putting in an offer. I would welcome that as a listing agent, because then you could get rid of the inspection contingency in your offer (making it stronger).
Lastly, I wouldn't go negotiating it yourself. You don't want to give anything to the listing agent that they could then use against you (whether financial, emotional - good or bad, etc.). Whenever I actually meet the buyers (or sellers), I feel like I can have a better shot at negotiating a price for my clients because I've been able to read their body language, gauge their motivation, etc. If negotiating is an issue, ask that your agent's broker step in and assist in presenting the offer along with your agent.
- Lisa Poole, "Lisa Poole"
- Contributions:1
There are many factors that go into an agents advice when it comes to negotiating price. Without being privy to all the facts I don't think anyone can tell you that your agent is out of the ball park or doing you a diservice. I will say that if two adjoining units sold for $310,000.00 than that is the most I'd advise my client to pay and therefor starting at 290 would not be out of the question, unless there were something that this unit has that they do not, such as end unit location , or important updates , like a remodeled kitchen. In the end your agent works for you and you could simply insist that the offer you are comfortable with is the offer you want him to present and that you are willing to move on if it does not work in your favor.
Best of luck
- Mary Devino, "Mary_Devino"
- Contributions:37
When buying a house you want representation. You will be getting much more than someone bargaining a good deal for you. You want a broker that is going to substantiate your fair offer with good comps.
If you do not have a written buyer's agreement, than you are free to choose and have another broker go over the comps, offer price, contingencies such as title, financing and inspection and the Law of Agency.
The listing broker is representing the seller, not you. If you were to speak to the listing broker he/she would have to be neutral and could not give you needed advice and counsel. If you have more questions, I would be happy to help you!
If you do not have a written buyer's agreement, than you are free to choose and have another broker go over the comps, offer price, contingencies such as title, financing and inspection and the Law of Agency.
The listing broker is representing the seller, not you. If you were to speak to the listing broker he/she would have to be neutral and could not give you needed advice and counsel. If you have more questions, I would be happy to help you!
- Coodle
- Contributions:3
The listing as also been on for over 50 days. Someone on another thread said if it's over 50 days, you can negotiate 20% less. I know it's ridiculous in my situation, but there has to be a reason when a property hasn't been getting any offers, right?
- Coodle
- Contributions:3
That's true. I shouldn't be looking at the Zestimate as a single number or an appraisal value. The Zestimate range for this townhouse is $290-360k. Estimates for all the townhouses in this community are between $280-300k.
The only other unit that is currently being sold within this community is listed for $339k. The unit I'm looking had two families living in it. The first buyer in 2007 paid $365k, and the current family paid $335k in 2010. Two adjacent units were sold for $310k last year, and the rest were sold no more than $340k in 2007.
I didn't sign any contract with my agent. I know it'll make him look bad if I go bargaining myself, and I don't want to ruin any relationships here either.
It's not possible for me to hire an inspector before I put an offer down, is it? I'm just hoping to get as close to fair market value as possible.
The only other unit that is currently being sold within this community is listed for $339k. The unit I'm looking had two families living in it. The first buyer in 2007 paid $365k, and the current family paid $335k in 2010. Two adjacent units were sold for $310k last year, and the rest were sold no more than $340k in 2007.
I didn't sign any contract with my agent. I know it'll make him look bad if I go bargaining myself, and I don't want to ruin any relationships here either.
It's not possible for me to hire an inspector before I put an offer down, is it? I'm just hoping to get as close to fair market value as possible.
- Matthew Reichlin, "matthewreichlin"
- Contributions:11
It is unlikely that you have a signed buyer's agency agreement as most agents do not use them. If you do, consult an attorney. if not, and you have lost faith in your agent, then contact his brokerage and tell them you wish to fire him as your agent and sever all business ties. then contact an agent you trust to negotiate on your behalf, and make an offer on the property.
that said, you must know one thing. There is an illusion that in a buyers market such as this one, you can pick up a property for a big discount. Or, at least, for what it is worth. But the bottom line is, a seller, especially if it is bank owned, thinks it is worth what they are asking, and they will likely not come down much, even if the property is obviously (to you) overpriced. It is very possible your agent is being realistic and honest about what you can get the property for. If he does not know the true value, then you should find an agent that knows values in the area. However, if he is competent, and is not willing to make low ball offers that are not realistic, then you should stop wasting his time and yours and make a realistic offer on the property. No offense if you are being accurate in your price assessment. But if you are just thinking you should get a great discount on the property, and your agent is rightly advising you that it is not realistic to expect to get it at that price, then he is doing his job well.
that said, you must know one thing. There is an illusion that in a buyers market such as this one, you can pick up a property for a big discount. Or, at least, for what it is worth. But the bottom line is, a seller, especially if it is bank owned, thinks it is worth what they are asking, and they will likely not come down much, even if the property is obviously (to you) overpriced. It is very possible your agent is being realistic and honest about what you can get the property for. If he does not know the true value, then you should find an agent that knows values in the area. However, if he is competent, and is not willing to make low ball offers that are not realistic, then you should stop wasting his time and yours and make a realistic offer on the property. No offense if you are being accurate in your price assessment. But if you are just thinking you should get a great discount on the property, and your agent is rightly advising you that it is not realistic to expect to get it at that price, then he is doing his job well.
- Mark Marati, "Mark Marati"
- Contributions:9
It depends. You knew that was coming didn't you? If you have a signed "buyer agency" with your broker then you two are bound together contractually. Each state has its' own contract regarding Real Estate brokers and their clients so it'd be best to pull yours out and read it thoroughly. If your broker showed you this home, brought you to it, and walked you through it, you could have to pay a commission to your broker if you purchase the home without him or her at your side. It's called "procuring cause". Mind you, I'm not an attorney nor do I profess to know anything about Real Estate law. You'd be best served consulting an attorney if you have indeed entered into a contractual situation with this broker. If you do not have any type of signed agency agreement with this person, then you may be free to do whatever you wish. Again though, consult your Real Estate attorney for the final say. Even if there is no agency agreement, but the only reason you were at this property was because of this broker's due diligence, there could be an opening for possible litigation if you purchase this property and do not address this broker's possible contention for a commission due.
- Reallyfedup
- Contributions:815
Probably not a good idea if you are represented by an agent and that agent has already made contact with the sellers agent. Especially if you have any kind of buyers agent agreement.
Regarding the Zestimate. Zestimates are not an appraisal or informed market analysis. They are simply a number based on public records of recent sales. The factors involving those sales are not a part of the equation.
What you need to know is what are similar units in the same condition and location selling at. Those are your true value, not the Zestimate. You also need to look at what other units in the complex are listed for. It doesn't necessarily mean that that will be the selling price, but it will help to see if this unit is in line with what sellers are asking for. The sold units within the past 6 months will be your best guide.
Regarding the Zestimate. Zestimates are not an appraisal or informed market analysis. They are simply a number based on public records of recent sales. The factors involving those sales are not a part of the equation.
What you need to know is what are similar units in the same condition and location selling at. Those are your true value, not the Zestimate. You also need to look at what other units in the complex are listed for. It doesn't necessarily mean that that will be the selling price, but it will help to see if this unit is in line with what sellers are asking for. The sold units within the past 6 months will be your best guide.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26793
When one pulls up a Zestimate, it is very tempting to look at the Zestimate as a single number. This is dangerous, more important than the number labeled as a Zestimate is the range called the Zestimate range.
The Zestimate (and its range) is only a starting point for comparing properties. A market analysis is something that you need to evaluate carefully, if you think your agent's market analysis is unreliable then challenge your agent on it and get a market analysis that you trust.
One does not bargain with the seller's agent, the seller's agent is speaking to the seller. But, there are other ways. One time when we purchased, we sat in the car with our agent and the seller's agent and the seller in the house. My agent walked back and forth as part of the bargaining.
The Zestimate (and its range) is only a starting point for comparing properties. A market analysis is something that you need to evaluate carefully, if you think your agent's market analysis is unreliable then challenge your agent on it and get a market analysis that you trust.
One does not bargain with the seller's agent, the seller's agent is speaking to the seller. But, there are other ways. One time when we purchased, we sat in the car with our agent and the seller's agent and the seller in the house. My agent walked back and forth as part of the bargaining.
Can I personally meet with the seller's agent?
There's a lot of factors in which I believe the price can go lower than $300k, but something is holding my agent back from bargaining.
I'm beginning to feel that I can bargain better than my agent. So I was wondering if I can personally meet the seller's agent and negotiate with her directly, even though my agent has previously contacted her himself (through email)?
Is there any regulations saying that I can or can not do this?
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