Changes to ZMM

What a mess this is going to create . . .

Honestly I think the addition of the other fees is just going to open up more lowballers to muddy the waters.  Now you are gonig to get these yahoos pulling title and recordation figures out of their a---.  Bad enough they can not accurratley put their fees down.

"G",

Will make it easier to spot buffoonery..

I think this is a great idea. I've seen enough complaining about not having these tools.

On title ins I can only speak on the one state I am licensed in. Its $2.5/$1k borrowed for lenders portion.

martin, I hope, is right. People should know that title fees, recording fees and similar items are pretty much standard- so if someone says $550 for title insurance, and everyone else is at $900, hopefully they'll take a closer look at the company and not waste their time with them. Also, if one company puts one day of interest, and everyone else has 15, then again, hopefully they determine who the low-baller is. Then again, until consumers stop thinking there is some 'SUPER DEAL!!!' out there, they'll continue to get manipulated.

How?  Who is going to input the:

Align fees to HUD line numbers?
Include title insurance and closing fees?

This can be a nightmare.  Title companies all have different fees and title insurance can vary greatly depending on the re-issue rate, type and leve of policy.  Gone may be the robo quoters for awhile but how does this tie into their upcoming API quoting engine?

I disagree with the whole title/closing aspect of it.  How in the world are we supposed to determine accurate title insurance-I am not calling the title company everytime I quote a deal.  That's just crazy.   We don't know if they have refi or purchased in the last 5 yrs to be able to have a reissue rate (this might just be a Colorado thing-not sure).  Wow.

Welcome Back Martin, good to see you moving around!

I've got to agree regarding the title piece - it's going to slow things down considerably for manual quoters - but potentially gives significant advantage to those using automated quoting - assuming the automated engine also quotes fees. I don't personally use one, so have no experience. Has anyone else used one and know?

David,

Are we to provide title insurance and title company fees now?  If so, then we are obliged to include recordation tax, where applicable etc.  That is going to be quite a task us not having the specifics.  Boy, you guys are going to be busy with the flagging for sure!

David,

Then I will have to trust your judgement and see.  But, for now, gone will be the robo, master blaster quoters who blast quotes in jurisdication they have no clue on the fees.  This is a good thing for now. 

EVERYONE:

How are you guys going to quote the title fees?  Are you going to call everytime you quote?  Guess?  Estimate?  What?  I have no way of knowing what title insurance will be.  Is there a reissue rate?  What endorsements?  Etc?

I have charts and such available to determine the different fees for loan amounts and states and such, but yes endorsements etc. will be a more slippery snake Tammy

Noteworthy is that the borrower is permitted  to pick their own title and escrow company...  Are we crossing some legal line by implying that they must go with our fees/companies?

Is there a disclaimer needed in our quotes saying "YOU MAY PICK YOUR OWN TITLE AND ESCROW COMPANY?" (maybe this was mentioned in the email and I missed that)

With all due respect David G, as I explained when asked my opinion on this implementation, this will not make things better. Roboquoters have no idea what escrow in California is and they certainly have no idea what to charge for it. This would only work if all loan originators were honest and competent.

They have no idea how much an attorney costs in different states and there is no way to police a quote for an attorney when it could be his brother. If I am doing a refi, I can get the title company I work with to charge me very little, if anything at all on a case by case basis. Can I quote zero fees on all of my quotes if I can do it once? All of these factors makes this a joke and will be a nightmare.

People quoting in California will leave off most, if not all of the title and escrow fees as they will be clueless. I could not even begin to put together an accurate quote of fees for MA as I have no idea what is required. I know better, others do not! This will not make it better for the consumer, it's going to muddy the waters even more between the real quotes and the crap quotes.

For the life of me I don't understand why they cannot grasp that less ... is more!

Wow, that is a great point Paul.  I know when I quote, I will be quoting my preferred title company.   What about for purchase transactions, we as lender/brokers do not pick the title company the deal will close through, that is determined by the listing agent. 

What about deals outside our immediate area?  I'm in Colorado Springs, what if I quote a deal in Winter Park, which is hundreds of miles away?

Zillow hasn't said whether or not they will provide the title / escrow fees (like they currently do for MI) or whether the LO is supposed to fill them in.  If we're supposed to fill them in, as all LO's know, for purchases the title company is not picked  by the LO nor is the LO privy to what the buyer and seller may have agreed to in their purchase contract regarding who pays for what.  Add in items like California transfer taxes and county by county customary fee split practices and you've got a formula for mass consumer confusion and misunderstanding.  Consider also the probable perception by the borrower that the LO is quoting title fees (that they can't actually control) and are therefore are also competing on title fees and it becomes a total disaster.

What about for purchase transactions, we as lender/brokers do not pick the title company the deal will close through, that is determined by the listing agent.
- An even more boiled down point made by Tammy ...

http://titlefees.firstam.com/Titlefees.asp

This site is great for estimating title fees.  However, in order to get accurate title quotes for refis, the borrower will need to state when his/her last refi was, and how much they borrowed.  Also need to know if they bought the house in the last 10yrs.

For NY properties, many borrowers refinancing will be able to get a CEMA.  However, they will need to state who their current bank is to determine if they will participate in the CEMA, and what their fees are.

Most of us have been asking for some kind of GFE type layout of our quotes, so I think more information is better.  We can simply state in our comments that the fees are estimates based on "typical" transactions we've handled.  I already put in a GFE of sorts in the comments section of all my quotes, so I don't see where the big problem is.  The roboquoters will invariably abuse this system to, but I think this will actually help to highlight some of those abuses. 

Let's see how it goes...then we'll complain, ha!

The addition of non-lender fees that are a constant regardless of the lender selected has got to be the worst idea Zillow has come up with yet.  1) every title company has their own schedule of fees, and they are all different, 2) I have no idea which title company the requestor is using, I don't choose the title company, 3) I can't accurately disclose these fees, 4) just like my still unanswered question about the permissibility of quoting a 15-day lock for a borrower who is 30 or more days from closing, the lowballers will just leave the title fees off or lowball their estimate of them, making their quote look like the lowest so they can make their phone ring. 

When shopping for a lender all the borrower needs to compare are the Section 800 fees and rate.  The rest of it is irrelevant to selecting a lender.  If Zillow wants to show these fees, they should enter them as a constant that will be the same for every lender like they do with the MI, taxes, and insurance in the payment calculation, and they should be in a separate section of the quote..

I definitely see everyones' point about the title stuff, but isn't this the case with all GFEs we send out?  On refinances we know pretty much what the title is going to cost, but with purchases I always tell the borrower that the seller's attorney decides what title company to use.  I keep a schedule of what's required for escrows per county and that should pretty much do it, right?  Am I missing something? 

I think most of the frustration here is on the GFE than what Zillow is specifically requiring.  I never really understood requiring lenders to disclose anything outside of 800 fees, but we are. 

It doesn't matter what is supposed to be disclosed.  There will always be lenders that will lie about everything.  I am a firm believer in disclose everything.  It gives the consumer that much more to identify the lies with.  If title is part of what is being quoted the lender in question can't fall back on that's a 3rd party fee, so it was not part of my quote!

IMHO I think this is going to be a total disaster in the making.  So much so that Zillow could actually lose much traffic due to such changes.

Though their intentions I am sure were noble and good, many times well intended intentions and the outcomes meet and shake hands.

On a different note, David, are you guys having luck fixing the "Find a Pro" feature?  I've checked it out and it seems to change a lot.  I've had a couple people remark to me that the search seems to turn up someone different everytime they try to use it.  I checked it out myself and even though I'm set up for the entire state of Illinois, it provides someone different based on the city or zip you select.  Just wondering if anyone else has had any luck with it. 

WHAT! Please ZMM, if you want this to work well, post the question to those that are submitting quotes regularly. Not just from behind the scenes, with a chosen few!

IMHO this is a joke. First of all how many of us are lenders? Brokers? Loan Originators?

ZMM doesn't even know the terminology to call us, so we are all lenders, right? Then under underwriting, what do you put, the lenders fee, right? How many of your lenders break down their fees, instead of charging one administrative fee? And, if your's do, are the other fees missing? .... The last time I looked a GFE must be sent within 72 hours of receipt of a completed loan application. We don't even have their name! Are they completeing a 1003? We also know none of the requests are coming from someone that needs the loan yesterday. We don't even know what rate and fees or which lender it will be when/if they contact us sometime in the future. Escrow and TiTle for us in CA depends on the firms. Purchases are usually 50/50. Refies I'm quoting now, I quote First Title American One-Rate (not broken down.

Anyone whose moral character is to low-ball, will continue to cheat, regardless of how many fields ZMM requires to be filled out! If you are not a robo-quoter, and you actually read the entire request, and sometimes personalize your comments, that takes up to about 5 minuets. If this takes much more time, I'll be involved with the boards and the heck with any more quotes!

My $00.02

In my opinion, Zillow, in their admirable attempts at improvement, has strayed off track in regards to their Zillow Mortgage execution. 

On a competitive mortgage quote site like Zillow, if you want to compare different lenders offerings, the ONLY thing specific to that purpose is the:

1) loan program

2) lock period

3) Rate

4) 800 fees

5) Any lender/broker fees toward those costs

Yes, amounts for total payment including property taxes and insurance, and total cost to close, are important consumer information, but can and should be disclosed upon further inquiry, or by generic and universal Zillow disclosure.

The purpose of a mortgage quote, whether on Zillow or anywhere else, is to compare a lenders program, rate, and pricing, which are all and the only items which any lender has control over.

The new system changes do nothing, except for the provision of showing or clarifying applied lender credits, to advance that primary goal or purpose, and only serve to confuse that basic buyer decision as to whom to consider doing business with. Further, the additional time required on a lenders part, and considering the low conversion of this site, make participation in mortgage quote activity of more questionable value.

Keep it simple, honor the purpose, actively remove those who deceive or try to take unfair advantage. Better for the consumer, better for the lender participants, more efficient, and a better understanding by Zillow on how to serve all parties goals and purpose. 

I like the changes.

I know it's not popular but the more detail a lender is required to enter the easier it is to spot the junk.

No excuses for fees not being listed.  If a loan has no fees..point blank it's a bogus quote.  What will make this work is consumers getting that message.

It would be nice if Zillow would inform consumers when they make a quote that when reviewing quotes to make sure they pay attention to the fees.  No loan is closed without them and if there is a discrepancy between quotes you need to understand why...No magic loans, No magic Lenders.....If there is a big difference between 2 one is being hones and upfront the other is Full of crap....Lot of the Crap out there right now!

Do the right thing, have a little faith in Zillow....not good for the site if consumers get screwed by lenders they met through this site.  Perception is reality.