Cooler Talk … or take it outside! July ’08

Wayne T,

Cool talk is a good idea, groovey even... 

A ballpark estimation is that .05% of all borrowers read the threads, and .01% tops, read the specific HOS threads... which is part of the reason that BS (bait and switch) quotes and self propelled reviews are STILL occurring (to impact the system more, maybe Zillow needs to send all consumers an auto email inviting them to come a board)

Flagging of the negative stuff is happening, but based on the fact that the BS is currently worse now then ever; this system has failed to be effective

Agreed - that there is no reason for anyone to be blatantly rude to another here, but it is okay to call those that are poking holes in hull of the USS Zillow out onto the deck

It's just to long to read.  I don't really know what ya'll are even talkin about.  I just want my vino.

If Zillow pays attention to flagged quotes and rebukes or removes lenders that are consistently flagged they will do well. If not, they will have another interenet site that failed to live up to it's promise.

Paul,   I definiely agree that the abusers should be called out.  The HOS threads do that quite well.  I read them all and find it helpful on a couple of levels. Actually, I wouldn't expect them to change.    Flagging is the most appropriate and allows Zillow mgmnt to deal with the offenders.  

I have noticed "some" courtesy now being extended as some of the regulars are challenged on quotes and fees. 

Your estimate of borrower visitors is probably good. I doubt many will read over much of the comments unless they do a search for key words or phrases.  When that happens andthey have to wade thru 20 nonsense comments to find a nugget or two .... well, if it were me searching, I would not think very highly of the "profesional" replies. 

Seems that may help to sink the ship as much as the low-ballers.  Both make the quality of ZMM questionable .... IMHO     

Tammy,

I know you have short-timers aches right now .... vacation time is calling.  :)  

The general thoght (cliff notes version) is how to improve ZMM by improving our (lenders) responses ... or will it make a difference? 

Let's see, what is that quote?  "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."  That is close anyway.  I know the subject is close to your new mission statement  .... but that's ok. 

Wayne,

You have been a member since April.  This is not a sales site this site is a public forum.  It just so happens the majority that participate are lenders/brokers.  I bet,based on calls and e-mails I have received from the threads,   far more people watch the boards than you think.  Some find the banter foolish, some find it entertaining, hopefully some find it educational.

Although it does get a bit out of hand at times when two members disagree and it escalates. I think overall if a consumer is watching it is a good thing.  If they're by chance learning the ways some of these scoundrels operate then I think that is a good thing.  Perhaps we wouldn't be in such a mess if there was some way to open peoples eye's as to the tricks and sales tactics some employ a few years ago eh.    Just a couple of cents for ya'

Actually, I have been a member much longer, using a private account.   I simply signed up as lender in April. 

In fact, signed up as lender when Zilow promoted the site as a place for lenders to receive leads.  If you check back, that is how Zillow promoted the ZMM addition. I had received notice of th expansion and was on the waiting list.   

What I have noticed is that some lenders who made contacts during the start up have a resistance to the change.  There is a lot of banter, true. I don't know how many like it or how many find it goes "too far." 

So, perhaps the entitlement is why some lenders keep insisting this is not a sales site.  They wanted to keep it as a private lable enterprise. 

I haven't noticed the active # of all users shown as on some sites.  (Total number is over a million I believe) but the number active per section/per day would be a nice feature. 

Most recent Hall of Shame...posted 4 days ago link - rounded down estimated - 1400 views, that's 350 per day, I have personally viewed it about 20 times, (5 times per day) there are about 20 regulars on here that have likely viewed it as many times but likely more, so lets say 30 times on average, SO it is a good bet...that's 500 views are from regulars,

not sure what the number of average TOTAL hits per day on zillow are nationally, but lets say 7000 is a fair (or a gross underestimate) guess,

that would lead one to figure that out of 28000 hits, (consumers and mortgage/re reps 900 are viewing that HOS thread = .032% of zillowites actually checked out that link

the next thing to figure out is what the % of actual applicants viewing it are... (how many loan inquiries are there nationally per day? I couldn't say for sure)

I see what you're saying Wayne, but saying that Zillow promoted it as a source for leads would likely more pertain to the requests section, not the discussion boards.  If we all thought of the boards as a sales leads source and it was a free for all this place would turn into a freaking zoo....Every other thread would consist of the newest member saying how they are God's gift to mortgages and everyone should call them immediately. That wouldn't be a place i would want to be a member of...

We see it every once in a while when a newbie pops on and starts going after anyone who asks a question with the fervor of a wolverine, believe it would not be a pretty sight if they let it become a self promotionally free for all site.

Checking those numbers against the whole site is more where my interest would be.  D you think the 20 regulars on the HOS thread (myself included) is a small part of the active for all of Zillow? 

When I check the other areas (Sellers, buyers, investors) there are so many threads that it would take all day to keep track of who is who.  I see regulars on each of those as well, and first timers.  I also see there is a "wild" flavor for some there as well and it takes a bit of reading to get doen to the real personality behind the name.  

So, of the over a million who have signed up .... how often do they return?  Some maybe daily others maybe once or twice and are gone for a few weeks or months (different reasons nothing implied). 

Oh,

another

Another item to consider is that the # of requests and # of quotes is not all inclusive.  same with the number of quotes listed per our bio page.  It is total current # and fluctuates based on items removed.   Just an fyi. 

Nic,   .... with you all the way on both posts.  Part of the add on though is that active lenders can and should contribute to the boards.  The more that that happens, the more likely the boards will expand into regions and states, bringing more discussions local.  

Definitely agree that there is a proper way to get involved.    

Don't know about anyone else but I've learned more here in months than I managed to pick up anywhere else.  When you folks 'call' each other on impossible quotes is great for me.  Another opportunity to learn.

I haven't gotten into the flagging syndrome and think that consumers with any complaints at all should carry more weight.  With that said, a fews things that would really help keep things at a cooler tone:  1) For the pros, read, understand and study before answering; 2) Read, understand and match the quotes to the request as I am unsure how anyone can quote 2500 + quotes, but I am just old and old school; 3) Finally, when answering a consumer's thread request, please stay on the fine line of morals and ffffffffraud (shhhh, don't like to use that word in a big way) when giving any advice.  I personally have seen lenders type out how to: price fix FHA DPA loans, how to do "restate" stated loans when the borrower "already stated" their income and how to lock with one lender and "float" with the rest. These types of "advice" as we are "professionals" create battlelines of right/wrong and the tone escalates.  It will never go away in a lending environment that has been destroyed by such acts in the past and when we give instructions as to how to repeat the process, it will continue. I don't look to take someone behind the shed, and I am an APR 08 newbie, but if the thread is not nasty and someone is "steering" the public wrong... you will see a small batallion show up with ammunition to defend.  It doesn't start out personal, but rather the tone and rhttoric gets loose because of cheating, lying, stealing, fraud and either stupidity or uneducated answers. Am I worng?

100% correct. Dave

la457 .... glad to hear that "the calling out" is helpful. That is, IMO, part of the intent and help that Zillow wanted to provide. I faithfully read the HOS threads to see which quote is in question. It should be very helpful to many seeing how the numbers change frm quote to closing. Although there is no magic lender, there are times when a valid quote may be questioned because someone doesn't have all the details, or because a lender chooses a different approach.

 Martin, good AM to you.   

Your "style" is an excellent example to all as you bring light where shadows prevail. Each of your 3 points are right on! The battlelines are drawn (as they should be) when examples of poor judgement or wrong "advice" are given. Doing this will gradually get the facts out for consumers. Even the bad examples, as la457 points out, are educational. 

Others have their unique styles as well .... most fit well within the overall professionalism that is neeed. 

Uh... "welcome to halogen mortgage"  where our slogan is "Let the sunshine in!" I sincerely appreciate the kind pats, but there are great people here that are more than willing to help those in need without any pandering or major attitude.  If the "spirit" from 3,000 pros was fairness, professionalism and clean competition this thread would have never started. The sad reality is that as long as there is competition, there will be cheating and as long as there is cheating, there will be policing.. "If you give a moose a muffin"  (Great children's' bedtime story), but holds true about the endless circle.   The less people misremember, the better.. Roger Clemens.  I've always wanted to say this:  "la457, you are cleared for takeoff"..  Doesn't that handle sound like a Dreamliner ready to fly?

"......but there are great people here that are more than willing to help those in need without any pandering or major attitude"         Uh .... Not sure I follow the drift of that comment. Pandering seeks something from another ... however in the midst of skepticism and pessimism are compliments and encouragement mistaken for pandering? As for “major attitude”, none intended at all. I simply see life through a set of glasses that generally keeps me “upbeat and positive.”

If this were Utopia (no one cheating & total fairness) this thread would not have any purpose because none of us would need to work. However, there is cheating ... therefore the need for policing and for the HOS. As stated originally and restated here .. I do not advocate removing those elements. (Although as in the real world even the police need to be reviewed.)

My questions are about how ZMM would be different if “escalated tones” were the max rather than many discussions ending in the trash talk. Banter is one thing, but too often (IMO) it goes beyond what rational people would accept in the workplace. The bravado here is more likely an illusion as in the land of OZ.

The purpose of the thread is to discuss other (additional) ways to improve communication and potentially reach more consumers (education &/or loans.)

WT,

No drift to catch.  I was thanking you for the kind words and stating that there are plenty of great mortgage pros who help many with no expectations in return.  The "halogen" was for the "spotlight" comment.  I think you have misunderstood my attempt at humor, so my apologies. Thanks for the compliments as it is much appreciated and KUDOS to the work and effort you do.  I agree with all your comments.  It's all good.  I have no tude with you at all my friend.  Keep rockin'.

ahaaaaa! thanks for cleaning my lense.    the "glasses" I was wearing at the time had a scratch - distorted my vision for a while and I missed the connection.   Just goes to show how hard it is using only printed words to convey a thought.   

Hoping to hear comments from others:  lurking lenders  / able agents / curious consumers ...

"Halogen Mortgage - the lenders who brighten your day"  :)   

Wayne - welcome to the Mortgage Discussions! We're working on a large upgrade to this part of the site and the exciting news is that it offers solutions to most of the challenges you've disucssed here. We'll be localizing, organizing and categorizing this stuff much better than we do today - which should attract more participation and accelerate the growth of these boards.

Back on topic, I personally think our regular Mortgage lenders offer some of the best and most thorough (and diverse) advice to be found in these discussions. I also wish more of the borrowers would ask questions here but I'm certain that many are lurking and learning.

Looks like Zillow decided to axe the thumbs down feature?

This should be a good step towards "make love not war" on zillow

DavidG .... thanks.   I agree that a lot of the regulars are providing some good advice.  ZMM is a great addition to the site. 

Hopefully some of the changes will be geared for more Regional and State discussions.  Others might be more inclined to ask questions in state specific areas whether for mortgage info or for home or neighborhood info. 

I'll miss the thumbs down feature.  Guess I'll have to learn to say "That was a bone headed thought!"    on some people's posts.  Oh well.  :-)