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Disturbing trend

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"

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Intellectual property being. An experienced Realtors knowledge of Real estate.

In my own experience, I have found that Realtors are answering questions in any real estate forum, for clients of limited service brokerages.

Yes as a consumer, I would want, and be tempted in cashing in on 50% of any one's commission.

What the consumer is doing now, is that they go to ANY Real estate forum
pick the experienced Realtors mind on.....

Local market knowledge.
Contracts
Inspections
Negotiations
CMA
Neighborhood schools
Short sales
foreclosures
The list is endless...

Again Here is the problem.

The consumer freely takes our industry knowledge, and then goes to a limited service real estate agent to close the deal.

We freely do all the hand holding, and are left holding the bag.

Why? do we do this, and how do we stop it?

Yes I am guilty of this practice.

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November 17 2007 - US

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Alan May
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Alan May

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the truly disturbing trend, is for agents to consider not answering legitimate questions, because it might cut into their wealth.

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November 17 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"

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They do answer the questions, and it does cut into their wealth.

I will spare you the Doctor, Lawyer, and Dentist.

The Garbageman doesn`t take my trash for free.

The Teachers dont teach my kids for free.

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November 17 2007

Alan May
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>>The Garbageman doesn't take my trash for free.
The Teachers dont teach my kids for free.<< no, but they'd all be willing to talk to you, and give you advice on;

where the city dump is, and who to talk to about a heavy pick up...
or where you can find a tutor, and what it might cost.

I won't sell their house for free either... but that's not what I'm doing here... I'm helping them learn how to sell their own house... and that does not cut into my wealth... in fact it makes me feel good. There's plenty of business out there, and plenty of people who are happy to pay me 6% for my skills.
... I don't need the "speaking fees".

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November 17 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"

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You need to read the question again.

Right now you are saying that you will answer all the questions and advise a buyer or seller for free.

There are no "speaking fees".

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November 17 2007

Kary L. Krismer, "Krismer"
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Kary L. Krismer, "Krismer"

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I find once people learn what they don't know they're more likely to use an agent. When they're ignorant they don't know what they don't know.

What they want is information. What they don't want is to be told they can't do something themselves.

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November 17 2007

caballosnegros
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caballosnegros

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The most successful are the most generous- seen it time and again- and if I decide to use a realtor , it will be one of those.

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November 17 2007

Alan May
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>> You need to read the question again.<<

I read the question properly... the "Speaking fees" were just a figure of speech...

and yes, I will advise buyers and sellers on these boards for free! that's right, you heard me.... freee, freee, freeee!!!! (maniacal laughter here). but I won't take your trash out or teach your kids for free. I also won't SELL your house for free... but I will give you my opinions.... FREE.

I'm happy to answer any questions posed (except of course my secret identity)... edumacation is the key.

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November 17 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"

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Caballosnegros,

"If you decide".

However will you use those Realtors for guidance.

Will you have them answer your questions.

Will you listen to them when they describe the neighborhood.

Will you use them to close the deal? or will you go to a discount that will refund half the commission?

Your online identity is kept secret, they will never know.

Elvis.

"I will advise buyers and sellers on these boards for free! that's right, you heard me.... freee, freee, freeee!!!! "

OK were getting close.

Now those buyers and seller use all your information, and at the last minute do to a discount real estate agent to get half the commission back

Final question;

How do you feel about that?

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November 17 2007

Alan May
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Final Answer:

I feel good
(na na na na na na)
I knew that I would now...

I feel good
(na na na na na na)
I knew that I would now...

so good (na na)... so good.. I've helped you!! (na na na na naaa)

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November 18 2007

Kary L. Krismer, "Krismer"
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Kary L. Krismer, "Krismer"

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Let's go through the list:

1. Local market knowledge: I really don't see a lot of that here, but again when someone discovers how much they don't know, they're more likely to use an agent.

2. Contracts: This is an area where only general advice is given because every area is different and contracts can vary. What's interesting about this is I find that the lay people think they're better at this than they are, and it's hard to convince them otherwise. I guess that isn't too surprising since around here a significant portion of the agents aren't good at it either. But I don't see any harm in telling people general contract rules and alerting them to issues.

3. Inspections: Most the advice here seems to be to get an inspection or regarding the limitations of inspections. Again I don't see the harm.

4. Negotiations: There is no single negotiation strategy that works with all sellers or all buyers because everyone is different. But one of the big things an agent brings is their negotiation skills resulting from having negotiated many transactions. You can't transfer experience with a discussion. Again I don't see the harm in discussing this.

5. CMA: I've not seen anyone actually do a CMA here, so it's really just a discussion of needing a CMA--no harm there. There's also some discussion of the limitations of a CMA.

6. Neighborhood schools: I've never seen this discussed.

7. Short sales: This is an area where the discussion is good. People think these will result in them getting a bargain, which isn't true. The agents set the people straight, letting them know the hassles of being involved with a short sale. If anything that would make them more likely to use an agent in a short sale situation.

8. foreclosures: Agents aren't typically used in foreclosure sales, so I don't know what the relevance of this is.

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November 18 2007

13231 1213213, "321321"
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13231 1213213, "321321"

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I think it is far better for the image of Realtors as a whole to give good advice, even if it may be used by someone else.

The consumers have the right to choose to use a full service brokerage, limited service, or none at all.

As a consumer I would more likely use the service that provided the answers when I needed them.

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November 18 2007

Brooke & Aaron Hefte, "TeamHefte"
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Brooke & Aaron Hefte, "TeamHefte"

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Patrick-I truely believe in full service Realtors. I think that we could give advice all day and night and it would not replace me. I think people get lucky sometimes on their own-and I think they think they get a "deal" sometimes when cutting out a Realtor-when they don't. Husband has a "buddy" practically in tears who bought a FSBO behind his back a couple of years ago-to get a deal-and we can't believe the place appraised even in the "boom". There are always going to be people like that. There are also people that have the basic knowledge and the stamina to do it on their own-more power to them-there is enough to go around. I know that if I bought or sold in an area I was not licensed/did not know the market-I would use a full service Realtor and I would not buy through the listing agent-because like Elvis said-I am smart enough to know what I don't know and I am willing to pay a pro to guide me (Lord help the Realtor I choose :-) The advice on these boards does not replace us-if anything I think it proves our value.

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November 18 2007

Alan May
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Thanks for Kary, Ramona and Brooke&Aaron (I kinda think Broke & Hefte sounds like a good country duo)... for breaking it down for me... you've said it well...

this is totally a public service thing we're doing... and since it's not person or property-specific, I don't see the harm, in fact I see it being very good (na na na na na na na).

For those who would be FSBO's anyway, we've made them better partners for the realtors who may bring the buyer. For those who were nervous about being FSBOs, we've given them the information to help them fall on one side of the decision or the other... for those who were too nervous to EVER be FSBO, we've given them confirmation.

no harm, just good. so good... so good... i've helped YOU!!!

(Intellectual property, my ass!)

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November 18 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"

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Kary, Ramona, Brooke & Aaron,

My question says " any forum" this being my first post at Zillow. I have only been here three days?

I have seen Kary around a lot, and in his response, if I am correct, he is basically saying that there really are no client / Realtor conversations. BTW Kary advising on purchasing a foreclosed home.

However B & A "say The advice on these boards does not replace us-if anything I think it proves our value."

Yes the full service Realtor has value, In a hyper local blog, being our local "Intellectual property" knowledge. We will always have that value.
The disturbing trend ( Which is just beginning ) is that buyers are being drawn to Media forums which are supported by discount / rebate Brokerages
through advertising dollars

The buyers have the their questions asked by the full service Realtor, and then close the deal with the discount / rebate.

In the 90`s we gave away our listings to homegain, and then they charged us a referral for the lead our listings generated.

Ramona says "As a consumer I would more likely use the service that provided the answers when I needed them."

Exactly your own words "I would more likely"
That`s not a definitely I would use that Realtor. When anyone is faced with 50% of someone`s commission it`s tough to walk away.

I am not saying, and did not say, that this practice is happening here. Again I just got here. I asked the question to Real estate Professionals to find out if they were seeing the same practice. There must be at least 30 serious Real estate Forums.
Again I am only wondering if this is where are Realtor web 2.0/ social media is going.

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November 18 2007

13231 1213213, "321321"
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13231 1213213, "321321"

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Patrick,

I have recieve two clients from my posting on Zillow, that I otherwise would not have met.

Another thing is think about WebMd.com, I have used that to recieve information that I am able to discuss with my health care providers.

A well informed client/customer is far better to work with, in my opinion, and sometimes I learn something from these posts as well. I don't think Zillow is tring to replace Realtors, but are providing an interesting forum where anyone can comment on the real estate industry.

Don't be afraid to provide an insight.. it might lead to a commission check.

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November 19 2007

scott daniels, "floridalistforless"
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scott daniels, "floridalistforless"

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Patrick,
I have taken 4 listings directly from Zillow from clients seeking our service.
Each time these informed clients did the due dil on me and our company,which means quite simply they looked at others here as well.
For the record we are a "Full Service Discount Broker" much like a Schwab.

I`m positive people who visit Zillow are very well informed based on what I`m reading here each and everyday.

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November 19 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"

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Ramona very good WebMD I totally missed that analogy, because I wanted to stay away from the standard Realtor comparison to Lawyers, Doctors, Dentist. I my opinion I believe that it is more important to have a good Lawyer, Doctor, even Dentist, than a Good Realtor.
Plus everyone use that analogy.

As for providing insight, I have had my success, and answer questions on a few forums. I have also received a handful of Dear Realtor Letters, Thank you for your help, we just closed and received this huge rebate. Ouch!

Scott,
Congratulations 4 listings, from a social media platform. That is the highest number that I have heard.

Of course I can`t help but wonder if this begins to prove my theory, However not knowing the factors of your fee structure, and Marketing campaign.

I am beginning to believe that brokerages like yours are better positioned to win the public forum dollars.

The jury is still out if it will be the big or small Discounts.

Outstanding play on the "Charles Schwab" analogy

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November 19 2007

Maikeru_SHINIGAMI
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Almay -

Uhm, I'd have to ask you to not use the "A" word okay?

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November 19 2007

Alan May
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>>Uhm, I'd have to ask you to not use the "A" word okay?<<

allright... but she hates to be called a donkey. :-)

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November 19 2007

toriluve
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toriluve

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"Successful people help others become successful".

My company motto and I live by it. The day I have to "worry" about "giving away" all the knowledge I have in my head is the day they put me 6 feet in the ground.

People will recognize you as their resident expert if you are actually, THE resident expert.

In reality, the general public doesn't want to spend time and money trying to market and sell their own house. However, EVERYONE wants to save a buck.

That is why companies come and go. Foxton's, one of the East coast's largest discount real estate company just bit the dust. Blamed the "bad market." Perhaps, or maybe they just didn't provide enough SERVICE to their clients to keep them in business.

But those of us who have been in the real estate industry as a profession, know that markets go up and go down, and real estate is a constant, no matter what. We will always have clients, customers and an income.

Success is who you are, what you do and how you treat others.

Your cleaning lady can tell you the best WAY to clean the floor. But you still have to pay her to clean it.

The same applies here.

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November 20 2007

IloveLI
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Excellent thread, Patrick my friend (guess who?:) )

All these websites are making money and using realtors to give free advice so they can make more money. Agents are being USED. Because agents like to get stroked when they are "helpful". You're helping them put you out of business.

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November 20 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Toriluve,

I am trying to determine the real trend here, I have been freely giving information for years, lately the last three months. I am seeing, what I am calling a "Disturbing trend" Which is explained further up the thread. I am guilty of this practice. I still do it today. Really I don't like being used. This question is to help determine where social media is taking us.

I just read a post where the buyer was disscussing the effects of the Internet and Real estate.

He said "What can a Realtor tell me that I allready know"
He was going to use a rebate Realtor.

He is right, The last information the buyers need to know is the local neighborhood knowledge.

I am a full Commission Realtor. I am simply trying to determine where we are going with web2.0

I am not a household appliance, I don`t come with a mail in rebate.

ILOVELI,

That is a tough one, because none of my friends ever agree with me.

"Because agents like to get stroked when they are "helpful"."

Well to have that type of knowledge, You have been referred to as Team leader more than once.

It`s good to have friends.

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November 20 2007

Caleb Yamanaka, "CHUTTA"
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Caleb Yamanaka, "CHUTTA"

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["What can a Realtor tell me that I all ready know"]

To be honest a Buyer or Seller who thinks this way is not a client you want to pursue. I agree with what Krismer said earlier in this thread. You educate the client about what they don't know. This is the added value. If they take that and go to a discount broker or approach Seller's agent directly then you really didn't need that person's business anyway. It would have been a bigger headache in the long run.

I don't do this for all prospects, but if a person comes into my office for a consultation and is just pumping me for information I only take it so far then I let them know that I charge a minimum of $100/hr consulting fee for more information. You weed out the serious buyer/seller very quickly. You are right. Your knowledge of the market is the value that you add, but if you don't ask the client to pay you for that knowledge then you have no one to blame but yourself.

I think the place we go in the Web 2.0 age is to create a business model that pays a Real Estate expert for their knowledge. Attoney's don't give legal opinions for free. Why should you.

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November 20 2007

K101
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Elvis is my hero. 8)

And good for all of you who are not threatened by the free exchange of information and ideas related to RE!

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November 21 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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KIOI

No one is being..... " threatened by the free exchange of information and ideas related to RE!"

Realtor provide a ton of information, which the client still needs to have interpreted. Making sense of all that information is where the Realtors value really is.

I never said don`t give information, It is what the client does with that information afterwards...

Hence the "Disturbing Trend" In a nut shell.. Full commission Realtors are providing a platform for discount Realtors.

At this rate $199. flat fee listings, and 3/4 rebates will be the norm.

Realtors can`t put lighting back in the bottle, I just want to confirm where we are going.

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November 21 2007

IloveLI
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Caleb says:
I think the place we go in the Web 2.0 age is to create a business model that pays a Real Estate expert for their knowledge.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Exactly and it isn't Zillow, Trulia, or wherever....where you make money for someone else.

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November 21 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Chutta,

Most of the time ( in reality ) you do not know if you want to pursue a relationship with that buyer or seller until it is to late. Especially now Realtors need to put deals together.

Our virtual format is making the decision that much more difficult.

I have read more and more about Accredited Realtor Consultant Designations
Along with a separate accredited designation in Negotiations, is my opinion, where the next generation Realtor will hold their value in a social media environment

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November 21 2007

vikingfan424
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Patrick,

Quit your sniveling and go sell something ! You Realtors only add value
to a small percentage of sales, and charge at 6% around 90 % too much

Signed

out of the market and very lucky

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November 21 2007

IloveLI
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And proved my point also. This is the kind of person Realtors want to spend their time giving free advice to? Hey Vikingfan, go back to CraigsList. :)

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November 21 2007

Patrick Mahony, "Patrick Mahony"
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Thank you Vikingfan,

"You Realtors only add value
to a small percentage of sales, and charge at 6% around 90 % too much"

You have proven my point.

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November 21 2007

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