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Does FSBO boycotting (agents not showing their clients FSBOs) really occur?

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August 24 - Alki
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Mack McCoy

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Dear Philip (and others who are bored by old questions);

There are very few new topics in real estate, but many timeless ones - most of the questions asked here by real buyers and homeowners have been written about since Gutenberg invented the Plat Map. 

Believe it or not, Zillow attracts new users, who may actually be interested in actual answers to the questions, regardless of how old those questions might be.

You all can do what you want with the opportunity; my preference is to give useful answers where I can.

Be the change you want to be, you know. 
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November 15
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Congrats on the offer, and good luck with the closing next month.  Good move on the baths, too, the whole place must look great now.

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November 15
Hi Sam...
I hired an agent, updated both baths, kept the pre-update price, and got a 'full-price' contingency offer...So far so good with a closing date in early December---This is how it went down: an unrepresented buyer wandered in during the first open house by my agent... Was the sell attributable to having gone from FSBO to agent OR was it the bathroom updates with a pre-updated price?? My best guess is YES....
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November 14
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They're battling, Philip.  It's become a test of Realtor COE knowledge.  No thought is given to the original question-asker at this point.  Dates are of no consequence. :)

How's the listing going, Shelly?
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November 14
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You realtors have been answering a question from August 24th.
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November 13
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As far as showing the code of ethics and showing FSBOs that's a good question.  Article 1 basically states that agents are obligated to look out for the best interest of their clients.  If a buyer tells their agent about a FSBO and the FSBO doesn't cooperate with REALTORS(R) I as an ethics panelist (I've been involved in Pro Standards since 1999 and current vice-chair of my assocations ethics committee and 2010 chair designate) would be hard pressed to find the agent in violation of any part of the COE.  Why should the agent represent a client for nothing, risk any liability, etc? If the FSBO didn't cooperate I'd opt for a commission agreement with the buyer and sign a single agency disclosure (indicating the agent is representing the buyer only).  If the buyer didn't want to pay the commission I would tell them good luck I can't help you in this deal.
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November 13
Profile picture for Jason Bonas
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great summary Mack,

as it has been said for numerous reasons many agents don't purposefully not show FSBOs. There are also many owners that did not allow agents to show the property. In addition to not knowing that it was for sale. Many agents will gladly bring a buyer to a willing and cooperative FSBO. but, rather than repeat 70 somthing post. I don't think it is boycotting persay... Because many times agents do try to get info on the FSBOs and may not have all the needed disclosure or knowledge of the property to get a chance to show it

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November 13
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It does occur, however, most agents, will show FSBO's if in
fact said property falls within thier clients needs and wants.g

A couple of my transactions of the years, (while representing
the buyers) went the way of purchasing a FSBO. I actually
talked to the owners, explained it from a sales point of view.
On both transactions they (the sellers) were more than happy
to pay a commission.

I hope that helps.

-Shawn


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November 13
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Mack McCoy

Seattle WA

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70 answers, let's summarize for our new readers.

The answer appears to be, Yes, it does occur, but it's not the general practice of most agents responding to ignore unrepresented sellers.

And, if you want to get the attention of agents, you'd be well-advised to have your list with some sort of MLS-inclusion service, or agents are likely to never know you're for sale.

Most agents think you'd be better off listing with a full-service broker.

Many respondents think agents are worthless.
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November 13
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Zillow only allows me to give rockinblu one thumb's up.
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November 12
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rockinblu

Glen Carbon, IL

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.shellibeaver,

Take a good thorough look at this You really don't have to follow all the math to get to the bottom line.
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November 11
I don't know if there is actual "boycotting" of FSBO's, but I do know many agents don't like showing those properties for a number of reasons. First, home sellers often don't properly disclose property conditions and agents don't want their buyers to hold them responsible for future issues. When a home is listed with a Realtor, the agent will typically ensure that property disclosures are correct. Second, if there are problems with a home after the sale, it's often very difficult to track down the FSBO home seller. When problems like this occur with a home listed by a Realtor, it's much easier to track down the right parties for help. Third, since many FSBO listings are not available for viewing except when it's convenient for the seller, it often makes these properties difficult to show. In a buyer's market such as we are experiencing now you need to make it easy for the buyer and their agent to see the home. Fourth, many FSBO's become FSBO's because they want a higher selling price than the market bears and than what Realtors recommended. Fifth, many FSBO's make it very difficult for the buyer's agent to earn a commission. All of these reasons factor into why many agents don't like showing FSBO properties and any or all of them can come to bear at the same time.
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October 20
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Most agents I work with or know in the industry are willing to show any property for sale.  Again, as stated previously we use the MLS to find the properties that are currently for sale.  If an agent is up to speed on their area, they may know the FSBO's. In fact they may have offered their services to help the seller or even approached the seller about negotiating a buyers commission. The majority of agents would desire a good relationship with the seller. A seller is a potential client as well, whether they decide to list or buy in the area after or during the sale of their home.

Hope this answers your question.
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October 20
Profile picture for Kevin Lisota
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Agents are driven by two things to show a property to their buyers. First, it must be in the MLS. If it is not, it is just too hard to find for the general agent population. Are there some sophisticated agents who source listings outside of the MLS? Sure, but that is not where the vast bulk of agents (and buyers) find homes. Step 1, get it on the MLS.

If it is on the MLS, you should pay a "market rate" commission to agents who bring buyers. Whether ethical or not, many agents are motivated to be paid, and if you are offering 1% while everyone else is paying 3%, this will impact agent traffic. It is not right, and clearly goes against agent duties to find the best house for their buyer, but it is the unfortunate reality of the situation.

There are also agents who try to avoid FSBO, even if they are listed on the MLS and pay a decent commission. The logic here is that the transaction will be lots more work because they have to help the seller through the process. That argument also runs contrary to the best interests of their buyer, but lots of agents like to use it. The comments below about "ordering title" are a joke. It takes a 5 minute phone call to order title, literally! There is potentially more work for a buyer's agent in a FSBO sale, and there is a potential conflict of interest if you give too much advice to the seller. However, agents who go down this path of logic and complain about more work are ignoring their basic responsibilities to their buyer, which is to facilitate the purchase of the best house for them on fair terms.
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October 20
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Yes.  As there are some sellers that have had very negative experiences with agents (the oposite is true of many sellers also, I can provide a long list...) there are also buyers and buyer's agents that have had negative experiences with FSBO's.  To generalize is plain silly.

No, not all agents are afraid of the FSBO.  Call any office, talk to the transaction manager (likley the office owner or broker) and ask if they've closed any FSBO's.

There are risks to any transaction.  Always educate yourself, use the best resources and technology to accomplich your goal to reduce the risks.

Using forms that are available anywhere, could quite possible put you in legal hotwater, please consult a local attorney on this issue if you decide to sell by yourself.

Not getting your home in the MLS, and there are ways to get it in without paying a full commission, I feel is a mistake.  More buyers are searching databases, with and w/o agents, online and those databases are bigger when they pull from the MLS.  Buyers don't search databases for 10 homes, they search them to look at 1000 homes.

Some agents just won't be able to find your one home without posting it into the MLS.  We all don't have the time to look at the paper everyday, or will likley forget we drove by your home and saw it was for sale.

I am a full service agent and will always beleive the best way to sell, with the best possible outcome and the lowest risk, is with a quality, experienced, full-time agent, that is present in all aspects of marketing and managing the transaction.  Give me a call, my advise is free, if I list and sell your home, then I will charge for it.

I will always refund every penny that you didn't pay me, if I don't sell your home...
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October 13
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Hello all , yes the agents are afraid of fsbo . I have sold many homes myself with no problem . As far as the paper work , no its not hard at all . Get a good title co. and if you want get a lawyer but you can get all the legal forms any where .
As far as the agents i have met , most were fakes and such a 2 face complaining people . You do have to watch out for some who want a large commission . Some think we fsbo are stupid and cant sell a  home . LOL
And there are so many sites to sell , list your home . As far as covering up something as a hole LOL I have heard so many complain that the home owner did this while being listed with a agent 
So people who want to sell as a fsbo please do so the agents only want you to think you cant cuz your stupid
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October 13
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I would like you to understand one more aspect of the FSBO seller to my buyer. I have been down this road; it's a lot of work to do both sides of the transaction.

 

To expect the average seller to know all aspects of the home selling process is pretty wishful thinking. Has title been ordered? Explaining the contract and the timing of the events in the contract can be a tricky dance trying to teach and inform while owing a fiduciary duty to the buyer. Trying very hard to work for your client and then explain and answer the questions from the seller. Then they get advice from a shirt tail relative in another state who offers another direction.

 

Can you see that the agent working for his/her buyer has to do double and triple the work?

 

I would like to offer that this is not always the way it turns out with a seller but it may be the fear of the agent trying to protect the buyer, as well.


Hope this helps,

Michele Bullard

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October 05
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Mack McCoy

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- Great name by the way. My dad was 'Mac" McCoy to his friends.

Excellent!!

- But, to present the search of a home to a buyer as an all out effort and possibly not even give a home that may be cheaper and a better fit a consideration, to me, is not protecting the client's interest. 

Absolutely. Misrepresentation is, in fact, misrepresentation.

As to the question at hand: Will some agents not show your FSBO? Yes, absolutely. Is there anything a Seller can do about it? No, not a durned thing. Are Realtors(r) somehow being unethical if they don't show it? Maybe, maybe not. Depends, doesn't it?

 
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September 16
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rockinblu

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Sorry folks. Won't be responding on this thread for a while, if ever again. I may have memory problem much like Vicki after going out of town for the weekend, and forget all about it.
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September 16
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rockinblu

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"While we're throwing around the Realtor(r) Code of Ethics, anybody care to reference how it relates to Realtors(r) showing FSBOs?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack,

Great name by the way. My dad was 'Mac" McCoy to his friends.

My feeling is that an agent is not protecting thier client's interest when in a buyer's agent role, they simply choose not to show FSBOs. I don't have any problem if an agent is upfront with their client from the start that they don't work with FSBOs. But, to present the search of a home to a buyer as an all out effort and possibly not even give a home that may be cheaper and a better fit a consideration, to me, is not protecting the client's interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3JtVo8Gwtk
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September 16
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Thumbs up to Vicki. I think that is how most work. I do PAY for a service that locates FSBOs for me and compiles them into searchable databases. I honestly use it more for prospecting than anything but it is nice to search it for a client to find an occasional good deal but like these guys said, I usually use that as a last resort if we are having problems finding a place. The other time I use FSBOs is if the client finds the FSBO and brings the flyer to me. Certainly if they found it themselves and liked it, it's worth calling the FSBO to see if they are working with agents.
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September 16
An extremely valid point Vicki. I follow a similar approach if working with a customer. If I don't have a listing that might work, I check our company database. Since Prudential Douglas Elliman is hugh in the New York market, we have a broker reciprosity agreement that shows all MLS listings on our company site as well. My last resort are fsbo's that are on Craigslist.
One last thing. Craigslist requires that you input the information, photos, description, etc yourself, everytime you list on the site. We all know that after a day or even less time, that fsbo listing is on page two or three and many buyers can't or won't look beyond a page or two hence, the fsbo get a bit lost in the sauce until re-posted. Visibility is key and that all gets back to marketing.
Brokers bring added value in many ways and again, most sellers will ultimately sign sooner or later based on their personal motivation to sell.
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September 16
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Vicki Lloyd, "OCRealtor"

Orange County, CA

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The biggest reason that I have for not showing a FSBO is that I forgot that it exists!

If I see a FSBO home when I am out checking properties, I'll make a mental note about it, but may not really remember it if I don't have a specific buyer in mind.  Later, when I do get a buyer in that price/size/area range, I'll check the MLS for inventory, and if it's not in there, it won't make my showing list, unless it really stood out and it happens to pop into my mind. 

In times of low inventory, I might keep the FSBO's flyer for future reference, but even if I remember that I have it, before showing I will have to call the owner to find out if it is still available, and what price they are asking.  Of course, it won't have a lockbox, so I will have to make an appointment when it's convenient for the seller, and then plan my route to fit it in my buyer's schedule.  This is inconvenient at best, and sometimes just too much trouble to bother with.

Exposure of the property
is the most important factor to find the buyer who wants (and is willing) to buy it.  Even if you don't want or need full representation, if it's not in the MLS, your home will not be seen when it counts the most - by the most serious and qualified buyers.  (Even when you put it on Craig's list, Zillow, Trulia, and all the other places available.)
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September 16
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Mack McCoy

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While we're throwing around the Realtor(r) Code of Ethics, anybody care to reference how it relates to Realtors(r) showing FSBOs?
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September 16
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rockinblu

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" Rockinblu: "Because it's in your code of ethics that states basically the client comes first."

That's correct."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeffrey,
I was referring to the NAR code of ethics, which since you're not a member, my response to Robert & Yoko, who are, wouldn't actually apply to you anyway. However, it's nice to know you operate under the guidelines in some sort of manner anyway.

"You would be shocked how often I find that fsbos are covering up that rotted floor with a rug or the hole in the wall with a dresser."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm sure these things never occur with agent represented properties. Right? You can make all the lame excuses you want. It's all about turf. The simple matter is many agents fear the change, and probably many should.

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September 15
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Rockinblu: "Because it's in your code of ethics that states basically the client comes first."

That's correct. You say that I should show it because if it's the best fit for them then its in their best interest. I somewhat agree, HOWEVER, I feel that it is also in my client's best interest to not subject them to that risk. There are simply too many risks involved. 95% of the time I can find them another house they will love just as much and avoid the risk. I'm not putting them first if I am telling them to make an offer on a home that quite possibly could be fisbo because the seller is trying to avoid disclosing a structural defect. Inspectors cant find everything. THat said, I do still show FSBOs. It all just really depends on the situation and what risks your clients are willing to take. I lay out the risks and let them decide. You would be shocked how often I find that fsbos are covering up that rotted floor with a rug or the hole in the wall with a dresser.

As for discount mls services. No, I do not believe these are FSBO. In my book, that person is STILL using the assistance of a broker. That means they are not selling on their own, thus not a fsbo. How they negotiate with the agent in terms of what services they get for their money is irrelivant. They either use an agent's help or they dont and it is not possible to get on the mls without the help of an agent.
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September 15
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Yes by all means choose it then. I guess then people considering selling their house then should go ahead and get their RE license for one transaction. Licenses and coursework are cheap to obtain and fairly quick in most states. What most people would pay in time and fees would be far less than the 12K commission that they would pay on a 200K house. However, I am not sure that more new agents are preferable to FSBO's.
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September 15
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Mack McCoy

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To move on, choose it.

Regardless of what "should" happen, the fact of the matter is that not all real estate agents are going bring their buyers to homes marketed by unrepresented sellers, and fewer are going to find FSBOs that have not contracted for inclusion in the MLS.

The burden of acting as your own listing agent is that it is up to you to market the property in such a way as to atract buyers.

That is the synopsis of the story.

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September 15
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rockinblu

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As a second thought to my earlier post:

"it is the agent not wanting to take on the liability, being the only licensed individual in the transaction."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What about that E&O insurance some agents are always bragging about so much?
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September 15
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rockinblu

Glen Carbon, IL

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Hi Robert & Yoko,

I have a few replies to your post.

"it is the agent not wanting to take on the liability, being the only licensed individual in the transaction."
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Can't blame you for that, but would hope most FSBO would do as I did, and hire an attorney to go over the paperwork.

" Also, there is no contract guarantying that agent will get paid."
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 Don't FSBOs that appear in the MLS have to state the co-op? Let's not get into the NAR's definition of a FSBO, which is that if they're on the MLS, they aren't true FSBOs.

"Why even expose yourself, or your client that should already be under contract obligating them to pay your commission if the seller does not, to possible headaches ahead?"
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Because it's in your code of ethics that states basically the client comes first. Haven't you heard of a thing called a One Time Showing Agreement? If the seller refuses, then at least give the buyer the opportunity to look and hope that you can do your job to negotiate the price to offset the commission if  he/she/they actually decide on the house. Writing off a house solely because it's an FSBO when it could a perfect fit for a client, in my opinion is unethical. However on the other hand, sellers who do not want to pay a commission to a buyer's agent, particularly in this market, again in my opinion, are just plain stupid.

"There are many reasons for being a FSBO. I would say possibly most could be because they want to avoid paying commissions, which is very small considering the liability if the FSBO doesn't complete the normal required forms that agents submit and disclose without even thinking."
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Again, that's what a good RE attorney can do for a lot less than 2.5%-3.5% of the selling price."

"Other reasons could be because they are trying to hide something that an agent would be obligated or compelled to disclose"
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Don't buyers use inspectors on FSBO homes in your area?

Just a few counterpoints to your points, and not meant to encourage all sellers to do a FSBO. Of my three home owning children, I would  consider  only one  to be FSBO material. There are a lot of FSBOs out there that really shouldn't be, just like there are are lot of agents out there that shouldn't be, and no, I'm not referring to you two.lol 
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