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Fellow Members / What is Your Take on Manual Quoting? Worth It or Waste?

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I've read enough threads to know that with the advent of the API feature, it is hard to compete on a level playing field.

I have tired the manual quoting route, and while I stopped a while back, still wonder if it is worth restarting.

Know your time is valuable, but would appreciate any honest feedback.

Best Regards
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September 10 - US
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Profile picture for socal_engr
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Since November 2009

I'm not a lender, but thought it might help to hear from a loan consumer...

I got a loan earlier this year, and I got it through Zillow, and I used one of Zillow's "manual quoters".

Those who are using ZMM and are buying into the robo-quotes, especially those that are just wacky...you don't want to deal with them. Too many have been WalMart-ized and are just looking to squeeze out every last penny, not just get a good loan. IMO, these folks don't appreciate quality service - and by that I mean they won't pay for the service, but they'll complain when the newbie screws things up.

When I posted my mortgage request, I pretty much already know what the general rates were like. I then sorted the quotes by rate to see where the "sweet spot" was. In this process, I tended to pay more attention to the quote(s) that were not obviously spammed. While I did look at some robo-quotes that "seemed reasonable", my interest was often tempered by the fact that the robo-quotes did not address some aspect of my quote request.

I guess I'm trying to say "hang in there". As well as the flood of robo-quoters, there's also a flood of WalMart-mentality loan shoppers, and I don't believe these are customers that manual quoters will want  to do business with. Those customers who have reasonable expectations and understand that service/knowledge has value and needs to be compensated are still out there - it's just that they're just as obscured in the noise as decent quotes are in the wall-o-sound generated by the robo-quotes. The good news is, ZMM's tools actually are a decent filter that allows informed consumers to find the quotes that address their needs.
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September 11
Profile picture for CA UMB
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Since January 2009

Thank you Clay,

With my private money loans we primarily use a 30/15. Now I understand.

On this scenario, shouldn't Zillow's terminology be 5/1 40 years due in 30 years or 5/1 40/30, not 5/1 due in 30 years?

Sure would be a lot clearer! Or, maybe I'm just that dense and a consumer would easily understand. ..... Happy funding, Rudi
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September 12
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Rudi, he is still doing the same thing, it is a 5/1 Arm 40 Year Am, due in 30 so there is an $860K balloon payment at 360 months.  
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September 11
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Thanks Gregorio, that explains the true cost aspect but I still can't understand that 5/1 due in 30 years quote that's a half point highe but $500 less amonth. ... Happy funding, Rudi
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September 11
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Since January 2009

Rudi,


Quote in Question:
I have figured out the problem here. Zillow is again confusing the situation by not knowing what they are doing.

When quoting an ARM in the quote form it asks for this when entering the life cap:

"The maximum interest rate on an adjustable-rate mortgage (ARM) that may be charged at any point over the life of the mortgage. The lifetime cap is usually expressed as a percentage increase from an initial interest rate. For example, if a fixed period ARM has an initial fixed interest rate of 5% and a lifetime cap of 5%, the maximum interest rate that may be charged is 10%."

But, when displayed to the consumer the explanation of the lifecap is as follows:

"This is the maximum interest rate on an adjustable-rate mortgage that may be charged at any point over the life of the mortgage. This cap, or ceiling, is expressed as an absolute percentage value. For example, the terms of the mortgage may state that the interest rate may never exceed 12%."

The "true Cost" calculation is using the first method to calculate, so your 9.8% life cap is showing an inferior loan and the others that quote 5% are at the top. Zillow, at once, asked for the absolute value to be inputted as the life cap but then changed it, unfortunately it seems they did not change the explanation on the summary screen for the consumers and if you actually disclose it as it states, (and as you did) you will be penalized for it.

Again, it would really be nice if Zillow employed an actual warm body that has closed a few hundred/thousand loans to advise them on what real life in the mortgage world is all about. Ps, Obama could use a couple of them in his administration too! Pencil pushers need to stop trying to fudge up stuff they don't understand!
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September 11
Profile picture for CA UMB
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Since January 2009

Clay, it's the same link. Now the guy posted another one. The payments just don't make sense. http://www.zillow.com/mortgage/LoanRequestAndQuotes.htm?loanRequestId=X1-ZRz0u1cc9j3l6u_wb2n

Thanks Gregorio.

SoCal, I and many others I'm sure agree with you. Thanks for your input!
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September 11
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Dittos to Greg.

Gregorio, since I already have " old timers " i forget CA is a world unto itself, Rudi flag that sh...
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September 11
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Socal,
Well said and thank you from us all.
Greg
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September 11
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No one wants to see your quotes anyway Derek, you are part of the problem, not the solution! Your last quote was an FHA loan, at 76% LTV, with an incorrect 1.5% UFMIP, an incorrect exclusion of the annual premium and at the super  human rate of 4.5% with .25 points. And imagine that, you end up at the top of the sort.

Derek ... give it a rest! With quotes like that I would never open my mouth again if I were you!
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September 11
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I think the auto quote killed the site effectiveness of getting business.  By the time I get a chance to send out a quote they have about 40 quotes already sent to the client
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September 11
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"Astoria will do a 40 Yr Am on an arm"

 Not in California Clay!
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September 11
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Rudi, Astoria will do a 40 Yr Am on an arm. The other one, the 30 Yr due in 5 should be the same payment if your rates are the same, can you post a link to that?  
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September 11
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Just wanted to pop in and thank all of you for your candid and honest responces.
I know that all of us are facing a challenging market where many lenders will do almost anything to make the phone ring.
I know that there are still many of us on here who believe in being honest and ethical.  I'd like to continue to believe that those of us who are will prevail in the end.

Thank you again everyone, and will re-review to see any more responces.

Best Regards
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September 11
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Hamp Yonce

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Wayne was around way back when, before ZMM, when people would come on and ask for info about a scenario, and usually that turned into an open outcry pricing shout-down, with three of four sources slugging it out verbally. It was entertaining and way more consumer educational than the current mess. I am not a quoter, so my opinion is moot. But, useless piles of quotes will render Zillow a useless pile of something. BankRateTree.
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September 11
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I would recommend all Lenders cease manual and auto-quoting as this site turns up 0 business. However I will stay back and hold the fort down just in case a customer is in need......   ; )
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September 11
Profile picture for CA UMB
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Greg,

On my example below after I quoted this $1.36M 5/1 a previous quoter came back with a 5/1 amortized over 40 years.

Of course, there is no such product to my knowledge. One of this persons previous quote was a 5/1 due in 30 Years is what Zillow called it where all the others were classified as 5/1 Jumbo.

For the hell of it I tried to duplicate that and it stll came back 5/1 Jumbo. His rates on his 5/1 30Y are higher but his payments are lower. Don't know how that was accomplished. .... Rudi
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September 11
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The 2 discount points on a 5/1 is moronic anyway, they want a 5/1 for a lower payment and probably wont be there after the 5 yr fixed period so they can NEVER recover the buydown in 5 years. They should go back to selling timeshares.
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September 11
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Rudi,
You are right.  The problem is that a good, competitive, honest quote is buried amongst the junk quotes.  For instance:
Purchase, 5/1 Arm at 3.875 is zero points on a decent size loan and credit scores over 750 with an LTV at 80% or below.  The API quoters are gaming the system and quoting 3.250 with with 2 points.  What borrower is going to take the 3.250 and cough up 2 points?  Maybe 1% will.  it is just a dumb quote with too many assumptions.  However, that quote will be on top because it shows a lower cost factor over a span of the loan than the 3.750 quote with zero points.  (Just an example as I haven't run the numbers, but trying to prove a point.)  So what happens?  They get seen by the borrower and then the borrower calls and asks, "Hey, what do you have for zero points?"  The API lender quotes 3.750 with zero points and gets the loan. 

Zillow doesn't consider the above scenerio a bait and switch but it is and is pretty obvious.  What makes matters worse, the API quoter has blasted out about 10 quotes to the single loan request showing a ton of different cost scenerios for the same 5/1 Arm!

The honest lender who quoted a realistic quote doesn't get seen at all.  However, from what I hear, borrowers are getting sick and tired of being bombarded with tons of quotes from the same lender who is about five states away.

Zillow, being in Seatle and in the middle of the techie world, thinks that their razzle dazzle is being embraced.  In the end, I don't think so.
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September 11
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Wayne,
Even on a simple 5/1 quote the scam artists know how to manipulate the facts. I don't see how you can provide an honest quote that would even be considered amongst such junk. Of course, only we know it's junk. Zillow is catering to the "crooks." Buyer beware! ..... Rudi
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September 11
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Hear, Hear
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September 11
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It is my opinion that prior to the format of API, ZMM needed us to keep the site clean, give good advice, attract borrowers by giving excellent quotes and services.  Since API first took place, around November of 2008, slowly everything has changed.

It appears that that Zillow has turned their backs on the very lenders who have helped make this site a huge success for them and have replaced us with mass lenders who are signing up for API.  No longer the need for accuracy, integrity, policing the site for bad lenders and quotes.  It seems obvious to many of us. 

David G hardly hops on the threads anymore and when he does it is in the defense of API lenders who have blasted out thousands of bad quotes due to, "system or software error(s)."

Because of all the above, I have gone to other sites to get business because my contact ratio has dropped on Zillow.  Prior to ZMM tweaking the format even more for the API lenders, I used to get more than 30 contacts per week from ZIllow borrowers and/or those who have just picked me because of my profile etc.  Now, the contacts have been cut in half and even less.  Though, since I have been carefully quoting and selective, over the past week, my contact ratio has spiked upward.

So, best advice I can give is to find the quotes the API lenders have totally botched and those we can be as competitive if not moreso.  The borowers will catch on to the hoax of the API lenders who are gaming the system with bad quotes , those who quote hundreds and thousands of miles away from the borrowers, and ZMM's attempts to skew business to them.  Then, when it happens, I'll bet the review system will benished in place of something else?  Why?  It will be embarrassing to ZMM that the top lenders on ZMM manually quote and goes against their business plan. 

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September 11
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Wayne, another thing I just learned is the borrowers who dont register will never see our quotes. They get online, get blasted with autoquotes, then leave. There is no email address to update later with manual quotes. I believe that's why so many of mine stay active. A year ago I would get about 80% at least summary viewed and around 50% detailed viewed. Now it's similar or worse than Dougs #'s. I would like to know the % of registered vs not, I bet " not " is much higher.
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September 10
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Rudi, besides that LSD picture, he is very sneaky using a 40 Year Am to beat your payment with a higher rate.
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September 10
Wayne:  This subject seems to be receiving a great deal of attention as of late .. not only here on Zillow , but on other real estate sites as well.  I wrote an article for ActiveRain regarding it a while back in fact.
My personal choice has been to not take part in the quoting of loans here.  Too many quotes received, too many chances for mis-quotes, too much damage to my credibility, too many lenders willing to low-ball and offer obviously ridiculous quotes, too much information not attainable to give quality, credible quotes.  I can go on, but you get my drift.  It just makes me nervous.
I utilize Zillow's features such as the Q&A areas, and the small ads in the zip codes to gain name recognition amongst potential clients and referral partners too.  I have seen that those services have served me well and are worth pursuing.
I prefer to quote one-on-one with an actual live communicating person with which I can have dialogue.  That way I know they are receiving the time, attention, and service they need and deserve.  I feel better about this approach  .. much bettter.
Best of luck to you no matter how you decide to proceed.
Gene 
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September 10
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since Aug 24th have placed 46 manual quotes, primarily purchase loans with 20% down or more with good credit.
Since that date I have:

11 summaries
1 details viewed
0 contacts

.....priceless
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September 10
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OK. I haven't quoted in months. Taking Greg's advice I decided I will quote Local Niche.

My quoted rate is less but my monthly payment is higher. Could someone explain how this happened.

By the way, I deleted and did this 3 times thinking it was me. Maybe it still is?

http://www.zillow.com/mortgage/LoanRequestAndQuotes.htm?loanRequestId=X1-ZRz0u1cc9j3l6u_wb2n

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September 10
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I thought speed counted too.  But, after talking with many Zillow borrowers, they don't look at the quotes that are from thousands of miles away, asinine etc.  They look at rate and cost, and distance of the lender.

Maybe Zillow should get their heads out of someone's arse that is feeding them fart soup and sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner and figure it out.
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September 10
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I was thinking speed to market would increase the contact ratio...Not so much!  BAck to niche quoting for me.
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September 10
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Andrew,
Cann the API.  I gave it a quick thought when Vin Diesel aka David Goobons tried to sell me on it months ago.  After thinking about it I decided that I can do much better quoting on a manual basis.  I don't need Loan Sifter to price out a quote.  I memorize some rates on rate sheets, have calculator in hand and quote.  I believe the accuracy level doing it that way is superior.
I won't price out a loan unless I can do it and stay profitable.  My quotes are competitive but I am not making just 15 points.  What idiot is going to do loans for that?  Better be doing about 25 per month . . .

Oh, did I mispell Gibbons?  :-)

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September 10
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Will do...I had to try it but I figure I pissed away $100 bucks API'ing...I am going to give it another $100 and either go back to manual quotes or abandon the quoting all together and stick to blogging and the threads.
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September 10

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Zillow Poll:
Suggested by jdoria
Has any buyer brought a Zillow report to a home showing?
Be A Good Neighbor

Zillow® Advice depends on each member to keep it a safe, fun, and positive place. If you see abuse, flag it. More on our Good Neighbor Policy

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