Frustrated with RE agents

No, you are not likely to find an agent that will push the prices of houses lower unless they have specific issues that warrant a price break. Historical values can be very different from current market conditions. It will be easier to find an agent that will work if you do your own research, legwork, drive bys and limit the number of total showings to properties that are likely to accept a lower offer based on days on market, property constraints, condition etc.

You may be more satisfied with an agent that specializes in investment real estate only. If you can find one that is willing to take you on for a single house purchase, don't expect any hand holding, loan help or extra research though. Those agents are about price and only price. For them, sales are cut and dried transactions about numbers only. If they think you are not serious or well informed, they will actually dump you and move on themselves.

I don't think that the commission being tied to the selling price of the home is the real problem. The difference is so small usually that I think it probably has more to do with the agents perception of you and the overall market value. You may be right or they may be right, but if the agent doesn't fit you you should look for one that sees things the way you do. It can take some time, but it is easier for all if you are honest upfront about what you are looking for in terms of style and negotiations.

An agent is not there to help you get a good deal.  Plain and simple. 

     Real Estate Agents are commission salespeople. They care about selling houses. Not taking weeks to show you a dozen different places. For the money they are getting they should do all they can to make you happy.

You are right Sir, but that assumes that the realtor sees eye to eye with you on what the deal is worth. If not, they don't want to waste their time writing an offer that has no hope of being accepted. I think a good agent will gladly feel out a seller or seller's agent, but it may or may not be worth making an offer if the seller does not want to make a deal in that offer range. Some sellers will not or can't entertain offers under a certain amount.

Realtors should want to make you happy, but some feel personally uncomfortable making what they consider low offers. It makes them feel bad. I had an agent like that, but she was still a good agent. I had to tell her why I thought a house was worth x so she knew I was not trying to play around or just waste everybody's time. Maybe you shouldn't have to justify your offers at all, but some realtors need that info to be strong negotiators on your behalf. There are a lot of realtors out there, you just need to find a good match so you feel that they are on the same page as you are when it comes time to write an offer.

I think like all professions there are good and bad. I am a realtor and have had several clients whom I worked with for over 2 years before we found exactly what they were looking for at the price that met their budget.  I believe my job is to educate the buyer as to where the property will sell so that expectations are set which can be met, its a waste of everyones time writing offers which don't have a hope in hells chance of being negotiated let alone accepted.  Personally I dont have a problem writing low ball offers because I view it as a business transaction and at worst they can say no!.  I suggest you ask friends and family for recommendations and interview a few agents and ask for their approach on pricing and submitting offers.

optixood:  how are you selecting your agents?    Before I select a buyer's agent, I spent considerable time interviewing a number of them to ensure that they meet my expectations of the services that I require.     

 

Spend some time writing down your expectations, interview them rigorously.  Last time I bought, I interviewed 5 agents and the average interview time was 2 hours.   They went through a rigorous screen before they got to the interview process.  

 

YOu don't need to spend 2 hours interviewing agents.  If you want to keep the process simple, just call the listing agent and have them show you the house you want to see. 

I agree with a lot of what viviennefrow said above.  Remember that every buyer, seller, renter and Realtor are different and have unique styles of dealing with buying, selling, renting and life in general. I ask my clients what is most important to them to try and find out what they really expect from me. Some people just want the deal done quickly and others will wait forever to get the price they demand - which ever side of the deal they are on. If a buyer wants to make low offers, fine, I am just the messenger, but I will investigate if I believe they have a fair shot at getting the house based on the other interest or the motivation of the seller. I have actually been with clients who tell me they just need to find a house that fits their needs in a certain time period and the price is not the most important issue. It may be hard to believe but if you are planning to stay in a house for a long time, an extra $20,000 might not matter that much if you get a good interest rate or a closing date that works for you. I never want to spend anyone else's money but time is money too and spending every weekend for a year, looking for a house, can really be a waste of time after a while. There is no such thing as the 'perfect house' or 'perfect apartment' or even 'perfect job or spouse'. It all takes a little compromise and you should try to find a decent agent to help you zero in on what is most important so you can get on with your life and start enjoying that home, rather than just keep searching for something you may never find.  I am motivated by making good relationships with people who will recommend me to their friends and family. I want to help my clients achieve their goals within a reasonable budget and get referrals by making them happy. We are in a service business and most of us do want to satisfy our clients so them come back to us and give us positive feedback. Let's face it, you just can't always make everyone happy all the time, so you do the best you can.

Dear Bitter Renter:   Perhaps your needs for a buyer's agent are/were different than ours.  Yes, indeed, we did need to interview our agent.   Please don't put your shoes on everyone's feet.

This is precisely why people are losing so much money and/or getting kicked out of their homes. Not only are the sellers delusional, but so are the agents. They are chasing rabbits down a hill. In this tumbling market, greed doesn't pay off like it used to.

See this:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Riverside/2112-Gainsborough-Dr-92506/home/5019365

Listing Price History

 

Jan 10, 2008     $949,000
Jun 26, 2008     $865,000
Jul 22, 2008     $799,900
Aug 18, 2008     $759,900

If they had listed at $759,900 back in June, would they have sold the house? Most likely yes. Even $105k off today won't move it.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Riverside/11976-Herman-Dr-92505/home/4777782

Listing Price History

Aug 18, 2007     $850,000
Aug 21, 2007     $849,900
Jan 15, 2008     $799,900
Mar 03, 2008     $749,900

$750k for this? Talk about delusional. On the market for over a year and hasn't sold. It's worth no more than $290k. If they had listed at $500k in Aug 2007 it would have sold.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Corona/25803-Lacebark-Rd-92883/home/17331202

Listing Price History

Dec 06, 2007     $739,990
Dec 09, 2007     $749,678
Feb 12, 2008     $679,880
Jul 25, 2008     $574,881
Aug 15, 2008     $553,934

Would this house have sold for $600k in Dec 2007? You bet. Who's to blame? Delusional sellers AND agents. The best they can do today is $390k. Guess what the next drop will be in a month or so? Probably $499k. And it will then be worth no more than $370k.

Go ahead. Try chasing a rabbit down a hill.

optixood, You might, or you might not. I've founding it to be like "finding a needle in a haystack" to find an agent who's on the Buyer's side. The worst is when you find an agent you think is good, & may have all kinds of great credentials,  make an offer, then the "inspector" they urged on you turns out to be pretty useless, or they didn't tell you about really obvious stuff about the property, like that behind the backyard fence (in very poor condition) the neighbor has literally a "Junkyard" in his back yard, etc. etc.

 

And then they won't stick up for you with any issue, & neither will the lawyer they recommended, etc. Some here are assuming maybe (?) that you're talking about making ridiculous low offers (another topic).  My point is more that after you get an accepted offer, & in some towns, all the lawyers, realtors, bankers, & inspectors seem to know each other, & almost none of them seem to have an interest in truly representing the best interests of the buyer......

I don't think this problem applies to just real estate...it seems peoples ethics in general have gone downhill progressively in the last 50 or so years. I'm in my 30's so at first I thought people lamenting the "good old days" were just being nostalgic. But as it turns out, I notice things going in a downward trend as I age too. Society doesn't seem to place the same value on responsibility to others as I remember when I was younger. At some point in time profit trumped a fair transaction. I think that has rolled out a lot in real estate too.

I believe in getting the best price possible for my buyers within my ethical boundaries. I don't think it's fair to take advantage of a seller because of their situation, I do think it is fair and ethical to purchase at approximately market price. Up to 10% above or below depending on the situation [before I get blasted on the above part, sometimes buyers do want to pay over market for their dream home or if there is some sentimental attachment to the property that makes it rational to the buyer to pay more to guarantee the purchase].

Also, I am talking about market price, not perceived value. Sellers may dramatically over or under value their homes - often many in a neighborhood (although this is usually on the over value side). My fiduciary duty is to my client. Usually my client is a buyer. A good portion of the negotiation is done before the actual contract was drawn up, at least in my case (I don't particularly care to have contracts look like chicken scratch, causing escrow to have a corinary). An equally good portion of my clients have already spent a great deal of time looking, often with another agent, and are frustrated with the purchase process. Many people don't like to negotiate; many people assume the purchase price is the sales price. I'm surprised how many people I have to tell that is not the case. I regularly negotiate a price much lower than what my buyer is willing to pay in the verbal, pre-contract negotiations. Many good and experienced agents do the same. Unfortunately, a real estate license teaches you only how not to get sued. It is a minimum requirement to be an agent, not the only thing you should look for our agents resume.

So in an era where society dictates you do no more than is legal and ethics are essentially out the window, how many agents would you expect to do more than is required of them by law? How many financial planners which expect to do otherwise? How many large corporations which you expect to do otherwise?

For the record, we are out there. Many of us are on these boards look for the people that give good advice; that seem honest; that post comments that actually have informational value. Be wary of agents to talk about screwing sellers for the buyers; people are willing to screw one side are easily willing to screw the other.

Optixood,

 

Please remember that pretty much every agent, irrespective of what they call themselves or how they represent themselves, are paid by the seller...after the house sells. While this does not mean that everyone is out to shove a house down your throat for the highest possible price, it does mean that there are some practicalities-of-the-business that everyone tends to adhere to. The most basic of these is "get the house sold". That typically means working on the seller (in a down market) to be willing to come down on their price, and working on the buyer (in just about any market) to be willing to come up on theirs.

 

If you want someone who solely represents your positions, all the time, irrespective of whether a sale occurs or not, then you need to contract for a buyers agent who you pay directly. This allows them to fully represent you (and whatever offers you want to make) and still make some sort of income. You may want to include some provision to offset their direct fees based on commission from an actual sale, but the bottom line is that if you want the agent to 100% represent only your interests, then you need to make sure they are getting paid for their time. If you are only interested in having them submit lowball offers (from the seller's perspective), then I can understand a reluctance on their part to invest significant effort into a deal that is unlikely to materialize.

I'm amazed at all the poor experiences I'm reading about here.  I'm a realtor, and take pride in my level of service to my clients.  A real good day for me is hopping in my car and going 'shopping' with my clients!  I strongly suggest that Buyers get an agent to represent them in the Buying process.  The agent's commission is still paid by the Seller, but that does not mean the agent is working for the Seller.  Calling the agent on the sign does not get you representation.  That agent does represent the Seller.  If you are not 'clicking' with your agent, look around for someone you do feel good about.  I also suggest looking for an agent in large brokerages, where there is an abundance of support and training for the agents.  The more education, credentials, the agent has, the greater your odds are in having someone who will look out for your interests.  This purchase should be looked at as an investment, and the question of 'can I sell this in 5 years and not loose money' should be one of the top questions you ask yourself.  If looking for a house/home is not fun, you definately need a new agent! 

Optixood, a Buyer's Agent should be working for your best interests and if they are a Realtor, they are required to submit your offer regardless of the amount. .... I agree 100% with Tiffany on how a RE agent should perform! ..... I disagree with Peg on choosing only from large flagged shop. .... I also disagree with Peg on the investment aspect. Not all buyers have this in mind. They are looking for a place called "home." Maybe, it may be their last home purchase. How well has that advice you gave two years ago, fair today? ... Remember "Dream Home" does not in all cases equate to "Dream Investment." Nor, do all buyers care!

The problem is: most homebuyers are just "consumers". They only buy & sell a few properties in their lifetime. Their knowledge base is often way less  than the RE agents (or more, in the case of Clueless Agents). And the buying process is often somewhere between Grueling, & Terrifying, for the buyer.

 

And in really strong areas, like metro-boston, or NYC, the agents REALLY expect the potential buyer to be submissive (again, I'm talking about the normal, "reasonable" buyer, not someone making truly crazy Low-ball offers).....

 

"And in really strong areas, like metro-boston, or NYC, the agents REALLY expect the potential buyer to be submissive"

Submissive?! Are we thinking about the same boston and NYC, cities on planet earth?

*I just can't picture it, is all*

Yes, you can and should work with an agent that represents you and your best interests. If an agent tells you the asking price is 'right' then they should be explaining why they know that, and showing you some logical numbers and trends.  Besides price, there's the details of your legal contract they must be sure are written to your best interest, and followed regarding timelines, notices, etc. They have to help you follow all the protocol of the transaction.  Agent's are commissioned, and time and knowledge is what you pay for. The change in commission is not much based on sale price; but agent's income is affected by the numbers of transactions they can do per month - their time is precious.  Hope that helps you understand a bit more.

"Submissive:"  I immediately thought of this article I read the other day in the NY Post when I read that word:

 

BINDING ARBITRATION
S&M GALS DIG IN THEIR HEELS WITH UNION BID

New York's dominatrixes have been getting spanked by the economy recently - and now, they're lashing back. 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10062008/news/regionalnews/binding_arbitration_132295.htm

LOL!!!

Perhaps Mistress Johanna got her NY real estate license?

I have been a licensed REALTOR in Maryland for over 7 years and when representing a buyer I always have my buyer clients best interest in mind.  Members of the National Association of REALTORS have a code of ethics to abide by that general real estate agents do not.  There is a difference.  It is true that agents get paid a commission based on the selling price, but I don't even look at a commission until I have an accepted offer.  As many others have said, there are always a few bad apples, but in this business your reputation is invaluable.  Find an REALTOR with their Accredited Buyers Representative (ABR) designation.  They have more training on  buyer representation.  If you work with the Listing Agent, they are obligated to represent the Seller, so be careful.  If you need help finding a Buyer's Agent, visit my website and drop me an email.  I'd be happy to interview some for you and locate one that will look out for your best interests.

Sharon, you don't need to shout every time you say realtor.

 

 

optixwoond:  Stop expecting an RE agent to do for you what you need to do for yourself.  Do your own research (zillow's a start).  Read local housing blogs. Drive yourself around to look at neighborhoods.  Get out of your car and talk to potential neighbors, people in local businesses.

 

Every conversation you have with a RE agent (including "Realtors") is partly BS.  Only by getting information from other sources will you be able to separate information you can use from the sales pitch.  You have a grasp of the situation: "their commissions are tied to the selling price of the home."  But also: they must have a sale, any sale, to generate a commission, and they will happily sell you the worst property in the neighborhood if that's what it takes.  NEVER FORGET.

 

Other bit of advice: line up a RE lawyer, and tell "your" RE agent that you'll be getting a second, legal opinion before any important decision or document signing.  Note look on Realtor's face.  Alternately, you can discuss with a lawyer whether it's even really in your interest to be "represented" by a RE agent at all.

I will present any offer a buyer gives me to present. I don't lose sleep over it at all, provided the buyer is intelligent enough to a. open a pdf of the contract from email, b. sign and intitial everywhere necessary using my digitial signature program, which is pretty easy, c. understand the contract pretty well after a couple runs through with me.  We can write a 100 lowballs if you like.

 

On the otherhand, treat me badly, and you can find someone else to work with. It is a two way street.

You can also look for an agent that has or is pursuing a real estate focused law degree. (slightly blatant and self-serving plug)

 

In all seriousness, an agent that is continually is updating their credentials is far more important than one that pays dues to be a part of the NAR club (which I have yet to do, but soon will be forced to when I officially transfer my license to PA - there is nothing wrong with this club, but it doesn't make a good agent anymore than a building that looks like a church makes a devout follower...it just means you know how to write a check to a club that lobbies for you). Find someone that truly digs the work and thinks of the paycheck at the end of the process, not when they are negotiating for you.

 

No matter what anyone says - your gut is probably your best guide.

Submissive?! Are we thinking about the same boston and NYC, cities on planet earth?

 

Yep, third planet from the Sun. Just based on some long & frustrating experiences apartment hunting in NYC at one time (altho that's a whole 'nother level of nightmare that's certainly not all due to agents), & Many extremely dismal experiences with (attempted) house buying & selling in the metro-boston area, with overbearing, demanding, clueless, or just incredibly rude agents.

 

Interestingly, I did some house-hunting in Maine for awhile, & found at least 2 Excellent, knowledgeable, honest, agents w/o much trouble (but my plans are suddenly on hold right now with the stock-market crash, etc.). I'm not sure if that's just chance? Or maybe there's just a different vibe up there in general. I suppose my hypothesis is that perhaps there's a large difference in RE agent's attitudes depending on region......at least that's my experience. 

 

 

 

Law school students are not working as real estate agents.

Will I ever find an agent who would actually represent the best interest of the buyers?

 

no