- Find a Real Estate Professional
- Realtors®
- Mortgage Lenders
- Home Improvement Pros
- Other Real Estate Services
- Review an Agent, Lender or Pro
- Marketing on Zillow
- Real Estate Agent Advertising
- Join the Professional Directory
- Popular
- Real Estate Market Reports
- More
- Kim Nwachukwu, "Kim at Ebby.com"
- Contributions:50
How would you like to for me to account for the time I've spent late at night thinking about your project, searching areas for just the right home? The time I have spent determining which negotiation techniques will work best for the home you have selected? How about the multiple market analyses I've done for you on homes you decided just weren't the one, especially when I knew that from the minute we entered them? When I get up at 5 in the morning to look at the homes that have listed in the last 24 hours in case "the one" has listed, but at the same time I'm making coffee, does that count? Just curious what your idea of billable hours are.
- Joan Braunschweiger, "Morris County NJ"
- Contributions:1543
gfreezman, sounds just fine with me.
Accountability would be tough, my broker would still have to be paid and I'm not sure how the commission rebate would work in all states but as I stated on another thread, I'd jump up and down with joy at $150/hour.
Someone else proposed the same thing but said they would be willing to accept half of the buyer's agent's commission back. Even better. :)
Accountability would be tough, my broker would still have to be paid and I'm not sure how the commission rebate would work in all states but as I stated on another thread, I'd jump up and down with joy at $150/hour.
Someone else proposed the same thing but said they would be willing to accept half of the buyer's agent's commission back. Even better. :)
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Kim, I appreciate your response. Actually, it is your time, your knowledge and your expertise that you need to put a price on. I'd venture to bet that if you figured out your actual income if paid by the hour now, you'd be sick and working at Walmart as a greeter. :) Maybe its priced by the task or bundle. I want to pay for everything you do, as my consultant, especially the idea of being paid by me and not the sellers realtor.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Joan, thank you for being an Evolutionary realtor. It amazes me the response of I can't work for $150.00 per hour. The broker actually gets paid the same way as IF you made a sale. However, if i bug out and dont buy a home you get paid either way as we go.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2575
I would, my preference would be to pay for task items rather than by the hour, but hourly would be preferable to the traditional setup.
Interestingly Kim mentions tasks that I specifically am not willing to pay for because I prefer to conduct my own search. If I am wrong in my search and ask to see a property that does not work, then yes I am responsible for paying for the viewing.
Interestingly Kim mentions tasks that I specifically am not willing to pay for because I prefer to conduct my own search. If I am wrong in my search and ask to see a property that does not work, then yes I am responsible for paying for the viewing.
- Kim Nwachukwu, "Kim at Ebby.com"
- Contributions:50
Sorry gfreezman, I didn't mean to come off as snippy if I did; didn't mean that at all. My response was more about my own quick internal and somewhat scary calculation about exactly what my billable hours would be! But since you are guaranteeing that I get paid; $150 an hour sounds like a great deal as long as we can agree on what a billable hour is. I've made that Walmart calculation in the past; mainly when tired and somewhat jaded about how biz is going at a given point in time; I always "get over it". [Although can't see myself down at Wal-mart, multiple reasons-I'm sure you've seen the websites-lol ;o) ] Hey, by the way, most FSBO seller's don't ask 3% less because they aren't using an agent, so it's questionable that all sellers ADD 3% to the prices of their homes to cover the commission. Just food for thought. I sold a car a couple of months ago and ran some ads for it - some pretty expensive ones. I didn't add the cost of the ads to the price of the car. Ok, that's a bad example. If I hired someone to move a boat from Bermuda to Miami, and then to sell the boat for me, I wouldn't add what I had to pay the guy to the market price of the boat - I paid for the service. And yes, the guy might have taken $150 an hour to do it, but it wouldn't have changed the market value of the boat. That's my 2 cents ;o)
- Joan Braunschweiger, "Morris County NJ"
- Contributions:1543
Wow, I'm Evolutionary! That is a description I can honestly has never been applied to me before. I like it....although for some reason images of dinosaurs and apes run through my brain.
$150/hour for being an 18 year old high school grad who passed a 70 hour course (NJ requirement) and a test sounds good to me.
Now let me make it clear that I'm quite a bit ( ok, a lot) beyond 18 and at least have my BA but I was just trying to make a point.
$150/hour for being an 18 year old high school grad who passed a 70 hour course (NJ requirement) and a test sounds good to me.
Now let me make it clear that I'm quite a bit ( ok, a lot) beyond 18 and at least have my BA but I was just trying to make a point.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Kim, No worries, i didn't take it like that at all. My own opinion is that all homes in the US are priced with the 6% built in, it became part of the homes costs as they were bought and sold through the last 125 years. The FSBO wouldn't price his home at 3% less because he believes he can keep the 3% that is built in courtesy of tradition and history. On your Boat example... Where did you dock it and why did you sell it. Just kidding. I don't know enough about the commission structure on boat sales to even entertain a discussion.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Joan, my point exactly, thanks for your comments.
- Dunes....
- Contributions:3894
$150?????
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2575
I presumed the $150 would be negotiable. That is somewhere near my bill rate, only my job requires a MS or MA as well as a certification.
- Dunes....
- Contributions:3894
$150???????
- Rick Hauser, "Rick Hauser"
- Contributions:4
I'm open to all forms of compensation that a prospective buyer client proposes. The hourly fee would certainly drive efficiencies and perhaps raise a better potential for a rebate for the buyer and is a good idea - as long as the buyer agrees with what the billable hours are. Certainly more accounting involved though. My clients enjoy the fact that they can align their financial interests with mine - instead of the opposite. IE - incentive where I get paid more when their price goes down and less when it goes up - unlike the trad. agent. Or there's always fixed fee plus incentive - or just fixed fee - or many other options. In the end - it is a win if both parties feel like it was fair compensation for services performed. The current incentive scheme in Real Estate is very flawed - with agents getting paid more when their buyer's price goes up - and not working under contract with their client - so they have to accept whatever the payout is - and they may push one property over another to their client - because the payout may be higher on one of them. My company eliminates all such biases with buyer clients here in the Chicago area - and aligns our interests to be the same...
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Dunes, Do you have more of a comment than $150.00??? not setting a number in stone, just throwing out a figure, do any of the other numbers on your keyboard work?
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Hpvanc, Of course, this is all negotiable, I am not looking to set rates or fees or even how a realtor may package their time or services. I believe that some functionary things may be worth 100-150 while some Fiduciary would be worth more.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Rick, The fact that your a buyers only agent, aligns you closer to my school of thought. My largest contention with the existing model even as you do it is that YOU get paid by the OPPOSING negotiator no matter how well you do. THAT is a conflict of interest. If a buyer can simply pay for your fiduciary and functionary services, regardless of the Purchase,, the buyer has eliminated the conflict of interest. he buyer has also eliminated any threat of you working for free. This is a niche model but for the home buyer that IS BUYING a home it is a smarter way to real estate.
- Dunes....
- Contributions:3894
Nope
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4695
I bet a buyer would be willing to pay a reasonable amount to see a house IF the listing agent would also put their money on the line. That means that if the listing description is incomplete or not telling the whole truth (including floor plans and problems) then the listing agent pays the potential buyer and their agent for their time.
Why should a buyer have to pay for gas (or anything else) when the listing agent did not put up a realistic listing description so a buyer can rule a house in or out quickly?
Why should a buyer have to pay for gas (or anything else) when the listing agent did not put up a realistic listing description so a buyer can rule a house in or out quickly?
- Richard Hauser, "buyerbrokerchicago"
- Contributions:3
Very true Dan & agree w/you Glenn.
Here's a few exaggerations that listing agents use sometimes (quite humorous - usually ferreted out beforehand before I show something..)
Here's a few exaggerations that listing agents use sometimes (quite humorous - usually ferreted out beforehand before I show something..)
"Easy access to everywhere" - backs up to a freeway
"Grandma's house" - hasn't been updated since granny moved in and still smells like her (I can walk into a home & just via the smell can tell the approx. age of the people living there after showing thousands of homes..)
"As the bird flies" - you have to navigate a tangled network of streets to get there
"Light and bright" - everything is painted white. Looks like a hospital.
"Light, airy basement" -daylight was visible through the cracks in the foundation
"Retro décor" - think avocado or peach toilets & tubs
"Turn key" - seller didn't want to haul off the old furniture.
"Unique design" - you have to walk through a bathroom to reach one of the rooms
"Walking distance" - up to two miles
"Water front" - sometimes properties on long-dried up lake beds and even backing up to retention basins
- Rudi Hofmann, "LUXURY HOME LOANS CA"
- Contributions:7435
For the buyers that don't buy through you, and don't pay you, how much time will you spend on Small Claims Court Proceedings? Will you win? How many times a year could this happen? Would it be worth the hassle?
Maybe this is a good idea for part-time Agents that have time on their hands, or those that are floundering. No Agent that I know would consider this idea. Their all making a great living and enjoying life. Yes, in today's market. Lazy folks look for another solution. Producers make things happen, through preparation and skill. I'm certain Kim, whom has made two contributions to this thread, is a Producer.
Happy funding, Rudi
Maybe this is a good idea for part-time Agents that have time on their hands, or those that are floundering. No Agent that I know would consider this idea. Their all making a great living and enjoying life. Yes, in today's market. Lazy folks look for another solution. Producers make things happen, through preparation and skill. I'm certain Kim, whom has made two contributions to this thread, is a Producer.
Happy funding, Rudi
- jenly
- Contributions:34
I am sorry, I didn't completely understand the original post.
From a prospective buyer's point of view, I would be happy paying an hourlly fee. I do think $150 is too high, but if everyone paid their brokers by the hour then it would probably work out to be a lower rate.
I would go one step further. I would like to see buyers agents get an incentive bonus. It is too bad that their commission is tied to the selling price. Our commercial interests aren't aligned at all.
What I would like to be able to do is offer my agent a bonus for getting the price lower. Just for examle: $1,000 for every $10,000 under $600 K. You get my drift. It would incentivize the "buyer's agent" when preparing the CMA to prepare the valuations more objectively.
From a prospective buyer's point of view, I would be happy paying an hourlly fee. I do think $150 is too high, but if everyone paid their brokers by the hour then it would probably work out to be a lower rate.
I would go one step further. I would like to see buyers agents get an incentive bonus. It is too bad that their commission is tied to the selling price. Our commercial interests aren't aligned at all.
What I would like to be able to do is offer my agent a bonus for getting the price lower. Just for examle: $1,000 for every $10,000 under $600 K. You get my drift. It would incentivize the "buyer's agent" when preparing the CMA to prepare the valuations more objectively.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2575
Commission based compensation is inefficient, unethical and immoral. It more often than not encourages reckless behavior, and yet stifles risk taking that leads to innovation (on a wider scale than just within the salesforce in an industry). Yes there are people that will go out of their way to avoid using the system that rewards closing the deal rather than ensuring the quality of the transaction as well as the quality of the products and services exchanged.
- Kim Nwachukwu, "Kim at Ebby.com"
- Contributions:50
I have to agree that the current compensation model is flawed, and while it might take time I truly believe that in many areas the compensation model will change. I don't have enough time to give how long that might take a great deal of consideration, but I firmly believe that it will change with time. It may change in states other than my own non-disclosure state more quickly, but it will change. Hard to say if it will be a model as described in our conversation here, but the model that is being discussed does have some merit. While I haven't had many, I have had a few clients (euphemism) that I worked with too long, they couldn't make up their minds, the husband and wife couldn't agree on what they wanted - an entire potluck dinner of reasons. I would have LOVED to have billed those guys by the hour. But I'm sure you get it - the current compensation model almost forces you to keep some of those loose wheels, because no sale, no pay. Most of those situations occurred much earlier in my career - today I'll pull the trigger on a loser far before having a lot of time invested, most likely because I can see them coming a whole lot better now. It's unfortunate, but with the current model, the guy that does end up purchasing a home with his agent paid by the seller, is really paying some of the commission to me for the hours I spent uncompensated with the loser. And no, I do not think that is fair.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Dan, You may be right. Truth in the listings would be a unique breath of fresh air. I did a Humorous video on that topic, I'll link it here, hopefully you'll come back and see it. [promotional hotlink removed by Zillow moderator]
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Richard, thanks for the additional comments, i appreciate it. Check out this video, click on the link, i did it using Extranormal, its dead on to your response.[promotional hotlink removed by Zillow moderator]
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Rudi, this model is not an either/or its simply another tool at the disposal of the realtor. Ask ALL the realtors your referring to to break down the amount of hours worked by their annual salary, shook and concern is the normal outcome. What is so terrible about being paid for everything you do? If a buyer is willing to pay a Realtor the same hourly rate as they pay their doctor's, accountants and lawyers, are you stating that Commissions or nothing is the future? There is a 20 year difference between the average realtor and the average buyer, the buyer is a new breed. The new Evolutionary Realtors are a new breed, EVEN the new lenders are a new breed. Change is good, scary but good.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Jenly, If you were able to pay your realtor by the hour or by the bundle of tasks, as a buyer, and needed them for 10 hours of functionary work at approximatley $100.00 per hour and another 10 hours from contract to close at approximately $200.00 per hour you could buy a home for $3000.00 "Buyers side commission" and be refunded whatever the agreed to commission that your agent and broker would have received. So in a $300,000 example you could get a check for $9,000 and net $6000 or have the price of the home reduced to $291,000. The buyers agent would not need to get any added incentives as their negotiations are being paid for as a consultant.
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Hpvanc, thanks again for your contributions, what do you do for a living, if i may ask? I am asking because your answers are very much aligned with many consumers and more and more realtors. I appreciate you. At Nucazza, we are looking to really effectuate change for the betterment of future generations of home buyers, sellers and realtors. People with your voice are always welcome to join the Party!
- Glenn Freezman, "Family Abstract Inc"
- Contributions:126
Kim, i love when the conversation continues,thank you so much, i really appreciate you. When something is flawed, we try to fix it. When something is flawed and mired in 125 years of tradition, it is certainly much harder. But Ford changed Horses and Google changed the World and eventually Real Estate will adapt or die. Travel industry went through it almost a perfect analogy, they gave up SABRE, the realtors gave up the MLS. Consumers use the new technology and look for adaptation from the industry on how to improve THEIR experience, the shift is occurring facing the consumer. At Nucazza, we don't sell anything, we just help effectuate change. If a model is better for the realtor and the consumer (and my kids and grandkids) then we will talk about it. We are not looking to change the world just add a choice.
- jenly
- Contributions:34
Hi I don't think you followed what I was saying about the incentive.
It is not in the buyer's agents financial best interests to help the buyer aggressively negotiate to lower the purchase price. In fact, it is in the agent's best interest to get the buyer to pay as much as possible as long as the sale goes through.
What I was suggesting was to forget about the seller paying a commission that is shared by the buyer's agent. I am a buyer, and I will pay my own agent out of my pocket. No need to feel bad or guilty about wasting the broker's time by checking out some houses. No need to worry about whether my agent is being overly optimistic in her CMA valuation. And when it comes time to negotiate the sale price, I will say to her, for example: "I will pay $1,000 for every $10,000 you will get the seller to reduce the purchase price."
Then, suddenly, she is pointing out flaws in all the comps the listing agent used. And she will help me get a better deal. And she will also show me houses where the seller's will probably come down into my price range with a little prodding, instead of just sticking to the range of overpriced list prices, which she currently has every incentive to keep high.
But it would really be too bad if it went the way of the travel industry. Unfortunately, excellent travel agents who can help you plan something complicated are hard to find because the margins aren't there anymore, and people just don't want to pay for something they think used to be free.
It is not in the buyer's agents financial best interests to help the buyer aggressively negotiate to lower the purchase price. In fact, it is in the agent's best interest to get the buyer to pay as much as possible as long as the sale goes through.
What I was suggesting was to forget about the seller paying a commission that is shared by the buyer's agent. I am a buyer, and I will pay my own agent out of my pocket. No need to feel bad or guilty about wasting the broker's time by checking out some houses. No need to worry about whether my agent is being overly optimistic in her CMA valuation. And when it comes time to negotiate the sale price, I will say to her, for example: "I will pay $1,000 for every $10,000 you will get the seller to reduce the purchase price."
Then, suddenly, she is pointing out flaws in all the comps the listing agent used. And she will help me get a better deal. And she will also show me houses where the seller's will probably come down into my price range with a little prodding, instead of just sticking to the range of overpriced list prices, which she currently has every incentive to keep high.
But it would really be too bad if it went the way of the travel industry. Unfortunately, excellent travel agents who can help you plan something complicated are hard to find because the margins aren't there anymore, and people just don't want to pay for something they think used to be free.
Home-Buyers, Would you put your money where your mouth is?
-
- 0.0/5.0
Contributions:126How do you tie a commission to the services that are being performed? Why cant i just pay you for the advice and council that you could provide me as a buyer from the home search through contract through closing? If i were willing to pay you $150.00 per hour for everything you do, regardless of whether or not i buy a home, would you take it? If i were willing to eliminate your risk of working for free and pay you like I do every other professional, would you take my money? If i would say to you, "I have eliminated your risk of ever working for free and I deserve the reward" Would you ask, what it is? If I said i want the 3% the seller added to the price to cover your commissions returned to me at closing as cash or a concession or a reduction in the price, would you take it?
Stating a discriminatory preference in an advertisement for housing is illegal. If you think this content is discriminatory or otherwise inappropriate and feel it should be removed from Zillow, please let us know by completing the information above.
We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.