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How fast can I refinance after a refinance?

I am refinancing a VA lRRRL. I paid zero cost for the loan, actually got around $5,000 in lender concessions. I should close at the end of the month. I will skip my DEC payment and get a refund on my old loans I impounds ($2,700). I am able to do this as I am a disabled vet and do not pay the funding fee. My APR was around 3.79. My lender says he pays a penalty if I refi in 90 days. What does he mean? Secondly, what regulation would keep me from doing this again and again as I get to skip a payment and get my impound account back?
  • November 16 2011 - US
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Answers (96)

Best Answer

Bill O. Goods,
Thank you for your service to our fine country! I don't begrudge you for taking full advantage of the benefits provided to you by the Veteran's Administration. I think you have earned every right to do so. I also think that you are fully aware of the benefits, and limitations, that the VAIRRRL program presents for Veteran homeowners. I applaud you for gathering the info, and deploying it in your best interest.

Since all the VA is doing is swapping your guarantee from one loan to the next, I can't really find a way, as a taxpayer, to disagree with you doing so. Especially not in light of the other egregious wastes of taxpayer funds. That is the way the program is written, and if Citizens, or Government representatives didn't want it to be that way, they could lobby to have the rules changed. The simplest way to do so, would be to eliminate ARM's as an option for VA loans, and particularly for IRRRL loans. I think that would be unfair, overall.

Since the goal of the VAIRRRL, is/must be to keep Veterans housing as affordable, and devoid of interest rate risk, as it can possibly be, given interest rate market changes, I would argue that you are doing precisely what you should be doing, as long as you aren't consuming your equity in the process. Hell, it's your equity, so really, you can consume it if you want to, if you have any. Having Equity is not a prerequisite for the program either.

Since I'm not a Veteran, or a Loan Officer, or an Attorney, or a Brain Surgeon, or a Rocket Scientist, maybe I should keep my opinion to my self. I'm may stop short of recommending you do what you suggest, but I will defend your right to try, because I don't think it is precluded by the rules. Quite the contrary, it appears to be allowed, and I would hazard a wager that you aren't the only Vet who knows it is allowed. I can only say that I hope your LO is a former service member also, so that another Vet will benefit, from you exercising your benefits.

I think Veterans should have advantageous mortgage benefits. I think making Veteran's pay for their loan guarantees, through Funding Fees, is tacky and ungrateful. I am glad disabled Vets don't have to. I applaud you for striving to make the best of the rest of your life. Happy Holidays to you, and yours.

Read what Clay Branch said closely. He is a qualified source. It is all salient info.

  • November 17 2011
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LOL
  • September 25 2012
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Profile picture for BillOFgoods
And here we go again. 3% IRRL VA.  GFE showing a credit after impounds, fees, etc.  Thank you FED pumping.... for now.
  • September 25 2012
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LOL.     
  • July 05 2012
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Yup, just Refi'd again.  Loan funded on Friday.  3.375% Rate... 3.376%APR.  Did the math and got paid about $600 to do the loan.  I stop posting about these things because I have all the info I need now.  I'm using quotes off of Zillow, so my method has changed.  I will refi again when I can get a no cost loan at 3.25%.  I'm very honest with loan officers... No hangups yet.... Bring on all the trash talk from the Zillow pundits...
  • July 05 2012
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
I understand you just closed on the refinance in March...  but it appears that rates are much better now again.  Average ZMM 30 yr fixed quote is now down to 3.441%.

So, it looks like it may be time to refinance again.  But you probably have to wait until your loan officer will not be penalized for the refi, as you did last time.
  • July 05 2012
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BillOFgoods, I am both a Veteran & in the mortgage business---Always good to see the system work!  Curious though, as you've increased your loan amount, are you getting your home re-appraised with each refinance?
  • March 29 2012
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" I'll send you the final HUD if you want via email, so you can truly pick it apart."
----
Please don't, I'm way too busy lately.
As I said, if it works for you then be happy. 

  • March 29 2012
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Profile picture for BillOFgoods
I missed 2 months of mortgage payments, a 2K tax payment and impounds to the new escrow = 5k.  I'll send you the final hud if you want via email, so you can truly pick it apart.
  • March 29 2012
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The last time I checked, 3.625% and raising your principal balance $5K + $200 in closing costs totaling $5200 is not 3.5% and free. 

I'm glad you are happy with that deal, but it makes no sense to me at all! It's a shame there wasn't a CA loan officer that could have written that 3.5% rate with the $3577 credit for you. 

But, if you're happy, I'm happy. I guess, CONGRATS!
  • March 29 2012
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Funded again.  3.625%  The loan cost me around $200 and I'm saving $45 a month for the next 30 years..... and my balance went up $5K due to skipping mortgage payments and a healthy escrow refund that I applied to my home improvements.  Looks like i was locked after all Professor ;)  and yes, I still have never broken a lock with a lender. 
  • March 29 2012
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"PS, I'd be lucky if I was half as smart as Clay!"



Ha Ha, the Professor knows I called him a genius on an older thread because it was deserving....So half is really 2x, he is just too shy to admit it.    
  • February 24 2012
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" You got the professor all to yourself for now :) "
----
Nope, I'm done on this one.

PS, I'd be lucky if I was half as smart as Clay!
  • February 23 2012
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http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Is-the-Professor-Clay-Branch%27s-distorted-Alter-Ego/432863?c=1
  • February 23 2012
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Thanks Justin, contacted a wholesaler and it was funny because at she gave up all the numbers before even asking who I was with. When she asked me, I told her, "I'm with Bill OF Goods." (keystroke sounds) "UM, we dont work with them..." So with my undeniable charm I Made friends and asked her to give up the names of her brokers with the lowest comp plans! And now the game continues......
  • February 23 2012
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Sorry BOG, I gotta look up title fees and my guess on Hamp is he's watching his daughter sinking 3 pointers, adding to her D1 Full Ride stock.
You got the professor all to yourself for now :)  
  • February 23 2012
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BOG -

What Chuck is referring to is that it is impossible to do a Borrower Paid/No Cost loan with a Mortgage Broker unless the originator was truly working for Zero profit.   The Broker is allowed to charge any amount they want for a Borrower Paid transaction, with the caveat being that portion CANNOT be paid at all with the Lender Credit.

If we assume you won't find an originator to work for zero profit, then your No Cost loan MUST be Lender Paid.

Lender Paid contracts are pre-arranged between the broker with each lender they work with, and would not be changed to accomodate a single loan applicant.    What Chuck is saying is that the best chance for you to get best possible terms for YOU would be a Broker with a low Comp Plan.  

Each broker has their own business model and profit margin built in.   If you speak to brokers, you might want to ask them early on what is the typical Broker Comp plan with lenders they work with.

Please note all of the above applies primarily to BROKERED loans.   When you work directly with a lender the game changes a bit.
  • February 23 2012
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"It's time to bring the FUN back to Zillow." -Professor Brown
  • February 23 2012
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Ok, that one made me laugh!
  • February 23 2012
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"Now if you only had someone with a 100 bp comp plan there to do it lender paid since you can't do it borrower paid without either raising your principal balance or coming in with cash to pay the origination."
----------
Call me a "piece of work," but I don't understand what you are talking about.  I've been drinking through the fire hose today and the nozzle is stuck to my mouth.  Clay....Hamp.....someone help!  The professor has put me in his mensa induced trance!
  • February 23 2012
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" Now I just need to find a broker that won't take a big chunk of that 1.125 rate in their origination fee when pulling from Franklin American."
----
Now if you only had someone with a 100 bp comp plan there to do it lender paid since you can't do it borrower paid without either raising your principal balance or coming in with cash to pay the origination. 

Looks like you have some more leg work to do.
  • February 23 2012
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I can see you learned nothing from what I shared with you. 
So much for; "  I have never broken a lock "

Good luck.
  • February 23 2012
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Professor,
You were wrong.  The Wholesale lender credit was 1.125, not .939... but then again pricing has improved :).  Now I just need to find a broker that won't take a big chunk of that 1.125 rate in their origination fee.
  • February 23 2012
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Gotcha. Check your mail.
  • February 23 2012
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Profile picture for BillOFgoods
And for this very reason (becoming educated), I post and share numbers.  Although my posts are riddled with hubris and pokes at various people involved in the process, I have no doubt amassed over 60 answers to my questions in this thread.  I am now much better informed than I was on 17 November.  Professor, a sincere thank you for the education and classroom session is due and I issue it now.

As for builiding business partnerships, I am closing after 90 days just so that I do not burn my last LO under his lender's guidelines... although I could.  I have never broken a lock and have always followed through with exactly what my intentions are... to follow the market to its bottom rate using my disabled VA benefits.  I'm not there yet, but with the help and knowledge shared here... I'm getting closer.  My guess is that the Bill of Goods I hold are priced significantly lower than what the general population holds, and to a layman (me) I remain a winner.
  • February 23 2012
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PS, do you see that Pricing Adjustment 3 "Broker Partner Adjustment"?
That's an extra .5% that the broker gets (which is passed on to consumers) for maintaining a stellar lock to fund ratio. This is another reason any good loan officer would not want to do business with you, because you obviously don't honor locks and will jump ship immediately since you have no loyalty. When brokers are rewarded for their "pull through", they can offer better rates to their clients.  

I am telling you this not to anger you or humiliate you, but hopefully to educate you so that if you proceed with your refinance flipping, maybe you will take a more structured  and thoughtful approach to finding someone to work with. 
  • February 23 2012
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  • February 23 2012
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How convenient that you don't lend in my state and can't send pricing.  I would gladly accept the Nutty Professor's Bill of Goods!  You have definitely brought the fun back to Zillow.... now kick this football Charlie!
  • February 23 2012
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"If you are in fact not the nutty professor that you describe on my no cost loan that drops me a 1/8th with no costs, send me a message to give me a GFE! "
----
I don't lend in your state.


"Maybe you can show me a thing or two instead of making wild claims about how good your pricing is."
----
Don't need to show you anything and the claims are not. Rate sheets are objective data.

 "If your prices are so smoking hot, what took you so long to speak up?" 
----
I was thoroughly enjoying your narcissistic rhetoric about being smarter than the lowly loan officers you were going to walk all over and wanted to see what you ended up with. 

"You knew I was shopping.  You either got it or you don't." 
----
Got i; just can't give it to you.

"1.  Message me for contact info and loan details.  2.  Send your GFE and put your money where your mouth is." 
----
See above.

The rest falls under "My Opinion" so you or others may or may not agree:

You, in my opinion, are exactly why the scum of the industry still thrive. You go looking for the worst of the industry and then complain when you find it. Anyone that would actually put up with your nonsense is either desperate or incompetent. You seem to think you can manipulate someone into giving you a rate and/or the fees you want and it doesn't work that way. If you find someone willing to drop their rate or change a GFE because of your brilliant negotiating skills, then you are dealing with someone who is not honest in the first place and you are probably the one getting taken. If you shopped for the best and most honest loan officer that would give you the best rate regardless, you would have done much better for yourself. But that's not what it was about with you. Your goal was not actually to get the best rate, it was to say; "SEE I WON... I outsmarted the car salesman."

So how did that work for you? 
  • February 23 2012
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If you are in fact not the nutty professor that you describe on my no cost loan that drops me a 1/8th with no costs, send me a message to give me a GFE!  Maybe you can show me a thing or two instead of making wild claims about how good your pricing is.  If your prices are so smoking hot, what took you so long to speak up?  You knew I was shopping.  You either got it or you don't.  1.  Message me for contact info and loan details.  2.  Send your GFE and put your money where your mouth is.
  • February 23 2012
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