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Answers (19)
Best Answer
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
"so we live in a Big Brother society..." -
Of course "Big Brother" was intended as a euphemism for "Uncle Sam", ever since written in 1948.
There is a big difference between monitoring and data collection by the government, verses private industry. And if one is looking at abuses of data collection by private industry, and distribution of private data without consent, companies like Face Book, Google, Yahoo, and MicroSoft are much bigger concerns. At least with the FBI and CIA, one can use a Freedom of Information Act request to get copies of what is on file (with information that proposes a government security risk removed), but there is no method of any kind to find out what is in the private databases of individual companies, such as Google.
So far, there are no laws against private companies creating databases of public data and data individuals freely share. There are laws against the government doing such things, but often they circumvent those laws by hiring private companies to provide just specific data they are looking for from the private records of those companies.
And there is good reason to believe that the "Homeland Security Act" and the filtering of all internet communications by the Department of Homeland Security is a violation of the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution... but they do it anyway. And since it is "classified information", it is unlikely that most of the general public will ever see the abuses or know what is in those databases. Even when a National Security Letter is sent out requesting I.P. information, or Library patron records, there is an automatic Gag order that accompanies the request letter that prevents the party from discussing the letter or anything to do with the letter with anyone forever. Violation of the Gag order is consider perjury, and gets one thrown in jail without any trial nor conviction.
Of course "Big Brother" was intended as a euphemism for "Uncle Sam", ever since written in 1948.
There is a big difference between monitoring and data collection by the government, verses private industry. And if one is looking at abuses of data collection by private industry, and distribution of private data without consent, companies like Face Book, Google, Yahoo, and MicroSoft are much bigger concerns. At least with the FBI and CIA, one can use a Freedom of Information Act request to get copies of what is on file (with information that proposes a government security risk removed), but there is no method of any kind to find out what is in the private databases of individual companies, such as Google.
So far, there are no laws against private companies creating databases of public data and data individuals freely share. There are laws against the government doing such things, but often they circumvent those laws by hiring private companies to provide just specific data they are looking for from the private records of those companies.
And there is good reason to believe that the "Homeland Security Act" and the filtering of all internet communications by the Department of Homeland Security is a violation of the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution... but they do it anyway. And since it is "classified information", it is unlikely that most of the general public will ever see the abuses or know what is in those databases. Even when a National Security Letter is sent out requesting I.P. information, or Library patron records, there is an automatic Gag order that accompanies the request letter that prevents the party from discussing the letter or anything to do with the letter with anyone forever. Violation of the Gag order is consider perjury, and gets one thrown in jail without any trial nor conviction.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
By the way, it should also have said "4th amendment" instead of "5th amendment". But I'm sure that most people remember that from their Government classes.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
Thank you Kathy for the "best answer".
Yes, it is true that not everyone looking at a media website is savvy about the market or estimates. That is why it is important for the agent to take advantage of the comment space provided on the home details page regarding the estimate. And why it is important for an agent to explain the wide tolerance range of what things sell for, and some of the motivating factors for those differences.
Anyone that knows a local market, and the details of an individual home can easily explain what details are not included in the modeling that accounts for the differences.
Yes, it is true that not everyone looking at a media website is savvy about the market or estimates. That is why it is important for the agent to take advantage of the comment space provided on the home details page regarding the estimate. And why it is important for an agent to explain the wide tolerance range of what things sell for, and some of the motivating factors for those differences.
Anyone that knows a local market, and the details of an individual home can easily explain what details are not included in the modeling that accounts for the differences.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
I believe you are correct, I think it is "contempt of court"; though it still seems strange as the party that received the letter never was in court, and never saw a judge. I'll have to check. I have it on file somewhere, though it is probably faster to look it up again.
- Caveat Emptor
- Contributions:500
perjury? don't you mean treason or sedition or "contempt"? could have sworn perjury required a trial.
- Nonhof Kathy, "Kitn"
- Contributions:2
I am the Realtor that asked the question about Kohler. I understand the workings of Zillow, however, the buyers that look at the facts and never dig any deeper is what I am concerned about. I am looking out for my homeowner who never asked to be put on Zillow. It was taken from another website. It is hard enough in this market to sell your home. This internet site as a tool is fine if you are in line with THEIR thinking, however we have a very small and extremely unique village here and one property can skew the numbers game that is being set out as factual information. If you are wise to real estate and have bought and sold in the last couple of years you understand what is going on and how the numbers can be made to look. Not everybody is that savvy. Like I said, it is hard enough to sell a home right now. I don't need more obstacles.
- DanceDoctor
- Contributions:7
Wow, this is all really great information. I am new to this site, and I'm finding just what I was looking for. Thanks to all of you!
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1965
There ya go..all explained
Bet you're impressed ;)
Bet you're impressed ;)
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
"How in the world do you know what a property is worth in Kohler? Do you know Kohler?" -
No one claimed to know what anything was "worth", not even the Realtors nor the Appraisers. All they provide is an "opinion" of approximate value. What it might be "worth" is what it sells for the day the sale closes. But even then there may be extenuating circumstances.
How does Zillow create opinions of approximate value? They "crunch the numbers" from the public records, specifically the "recently sold" ownership housing units, and what they sold for. They use that to create a "learning model", and they plug the county records data into those models to obtain "opinions" of approximate value. Do they "know" Kohler? The machines definitely know the public records data better than any Realtor does. But it is still dependent on data provider companies copying that data and furnishing it to Zillow's statistical people that run the modeling.
Does Zillow "know" any specific house in Kohler? Have they been in each of the houses they generate an opinion of approximate value for? Of course not! That is what appraisers and agents are for! Why would Zillow want to do for free what an appraiser charges $300 to $500 for? How would 300 employees visit 100 million homes at least once per month?
No one claimed to know what anything was "worth", not even the Realtors nor the Appraisers. All they provide is an "opinion" of approximate value. What it might be "worth" is what it sells for the day the sale closes. But even then there may be extenuating circumstances.
How does Zillow create opinions of approximate value? They "crunch the numbers" from the public records, specifically the "recently sold" ownership housing units, and what they sold for. They use that to create a "learning model", and they plug the county records data into those models to obtain "opinions" of approximate value. Do they "know" Kohler? The machines definitely know the public records data better than any Realtor does. But it is still dependent on data provider companies copying that data and furnishing it to Zillow's statistical people that run the modeling.
Does Zillow "know" any specific house in Kohler? Have they been in each of the houses they generate an opinion of approximate value for? Of course not! That is what appraisers and agents are for! Why would Zillow want to do for free what an appraiser charges $300 to $500 for? How would 300 employees visit 100 million homes at least once per month?
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
"...where the machines are now in control and us humans don't get a say in how much our homes are worth?" -
No machines are in control, except for things like navigational systems, where if turned off, the captains run the ship aground from carelessness.
Machines are "tools" of the owners of the machines. If one doesn't like it, they don't have to use them, and that includes your car, the local buses, the trains, and your bicycle. If you don't like machines in your life, "walk". And don't look up information on the internet, but go to the library and look it up in a book. But you will still need to use a machine for the card catalog as the printed card catalog was inefficient, hard to keep updated, and was replaced. And the printing of the books and even editing of the books was still done by machine, since hand printing is very tedious.
Besides, anyone that thinks the book 1984 was about machines being in control didn't read the book. It was the exact opposite.
As for an owner having a say on the value of their house? Of course they do. No matter what the present market value is, only the owner can decide whether to sell it for a given amount or not. If you don't want to sell it, then don't.
And as for whether you can have an opinion on the value of your house on Zillow? Of course you can! You can put your "opinion" of the value in the space provided on the home details page for comments on the Zestimate, or one can put in the description of the property "NOT FOR SALE at ANY price". Or one can set a "make me move" for the property with any random number one chooses, even $1. Even $38 TRILLION.
All this nonsense about "dictatorship" indicates the lack of comprehension of many people.
And if one really doesn't like Zillow and their machine opinions of approximate value, there are dozens of other websites that offer similar services in about the same price range. Zillow has no "exclusive" on the services they offer. But if one is looking for potential buyers, it would help to have a clue of the market overlap of those randomly seeking...
Little audience overlap(8)
AOL real estate 3%
MSN Real Estate 5%
Yahoo! Real Estate 7%
Trulia.com 26%
Realtor.com 17%
(8) comScore Plan Metrix Cross Visiting, April 2011
Zillow Audience
(sorry that they didn't include redfin, or eppraisal or cyberhomes... in the study).
No machines are in control, except for things like navigational systems, where if turned off, the captains run the ship aground from carelessness.
Machines are "tools" of the owners of the machines. If one doesn't like it, they don't have to use them, and that includes your car, the local buses, the trains, and your bicycle. If you don't like machines in your life, "walk". And don't look up information on the internet, but go to the library and look it up in a book. But you will still need to use a machine for the card catalog as the printed card catalog was inefficient, hard to keep updated, and was replaced. And the printing of the books and even editing of the books was still done by machine, since hand printing is very tedious.
Besides, anyone that thinks the book 1984 was about machines being in control didn't read the book. It was the exact opposite.
As for an owner having a say on the value of their house? Of course they do. No matter what the present market value is, only the owner can decide whether to sell it for a given amount or not. If you don't want to sell it, then don't.
And as for whether you can have an opinion on the value of your house on Zillow? Of course you can! You can put your "opinion" of the value in the space provided on the home details page for comments on the Zestimate, or one can put in the description of the property "NOT FOR SALE at ANY price". Or one can set a "make me move" for the property with any random number one chooses, even $1. Even $38 TRILLION.
All this nonsense about "dictatorship" indicates the lack of comprehension of many people.
And if one really doesn't like Zillow and their machine opinions of approximate value, there are dozens of other websites that offer similar services in about the same price range. Zillow has no "exclusive" on the services they offer. But if one is looking for potential buyers, it would help to have a clue of the market overlap of those randomly seeking...
Little audience overlap(8)
AOL real estate 3%
MSN Real Estate 5%
Yahoo! Real Estate 7%
Trulia.com 26%
Realtor.com 17%
(8) comScore Plan Metrix Cross Visiting, April 2011
Zillow Audience
(sorry that they didn't include redfin, or eppraisal or cyberhomes... in the study).
- Michael Emery, "MikeEmery"
- Contributions:7298
so we live in a Big Brother society where the machines are now in control and us humans don't get a say in how much our homes are worth?
Well that is just silly.
Of course you get a say in how much your home is worth.
Just
Not
On
Zillow.
Well that is just silly.
Of course you get a say in how much your home is worth.
Just
Not
On
Zillow.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2578
I have no idea how many listings Kathy may have closed that were priced to current market value, I would point out that 7 out of 8 have been on the market more than 90 days, and 5 out of 8 have been on the market more than 6 months.
I actually believe the agents crowing about properties getting multiple offers as soon as they are listed. Of course I assume those are are limited to priced to market non-shortsale listings. Those listings seem to be somewhat rare. Care to guess how that might relate to these listings, regardless of what the Zestimate value is?
I actually believe the agents crowing about properties getting multiple offers as soon as they are listed. Of course I assume those are are limited to priced to market non-shortsale listings. Those listings seem to be somewhat rare. Care to guess how that might relate to these listings, regardless of what the Zestimate value is?
@Mark
so we live in a Big Brother society where the machines are now in control and us humans don't get a say in how much our homes are worth?
so we live in a Big Brother society where the machines are now in control and us humans don't get a say in how much our homes are worth?
- Mark Nehs, Wisconsin, "WI Mortgage Lender"
- Contributions:250
Zillow is a computer estimate.
Buyers, sellers, consumers, and everyone should know it and if they don't shame on them.
Good luck Kathy.
Buyers, sellers, consumers, and everyone should know it and if they don't shame on them.
Good luck Kathy.
Kathy
Your question illustrates the failings of Zillow zestimates very clearly. They have insufficient information on Kohler to make a wild a&& guess let alone a supposedly intelligent machine generated valuation. If the algorithm was coded in any sensible way Zillow would exclude properties like the 8 you have listed. Either you are a hopeless Realtor (which I doubt very much), or Zillow has screwed up (which I believe). With only one out of eight listings with a zestimate in line with your listing prices it speaks volumes of Zillows failings.
Buried in the zillow information pages they do list the accuracy for majors towns and for Sheboygan its just a 2 star rating which Zillow calls "fair". Fairly inaccurate would be a better way of describing it.
http://www.zillow.com/how ... acyWI.htm
Your question illustrates the failings of Zillow zestimates very clearly. They have insufficient information on Kohler to make a wild a&& guess let alone a supposedly intelligent machine generated valuation. If the algorithm was coded in any sensible way Zillow would exclude properties like the 8 you have listed. Either you are a hopeless Realtor (which I doubt very much), or Zillow has screwed up (which I believe). With only one out of eight listings with a zestimate in line with your listing prices it speaks volumes of Zillows failings.
Buried in the zillow information pages they do list the accuracy for majors towns and for Sheboygan its just a 2 star rating which Zillow calls "fair". Fairly inaccurate would be a better way of describing it.
http://www.zillow.com/how ... acyWI.htm
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2731
Kathy - to whom are you addressing your question?
Maria - as an fyi - the poster IS an agent in Kohler (wherever that is)
I am going surmise that someone answered a question about value in her town, and she is taking issue with it....or.................she is questioning the ever popular Zestimate!!
- Maria Avellaneda, "MAvellaneda"
- Contributions:274
Apologies for typos but I-pad malfunction would not allow corrections and zillow system woudl not allow me to cancel post.
- Maria Avellaneda, "MAvellaneda"
- Contributions:274
The best way to be assure of the price of a home is to get an apprasal. Now another appraisal might be different. So make sure you coose a local expert that is experienced an very knowledgeable of you community. Here in Fort Meade, marylan market. This would cost you between 300-500. The other less expensive choice a local raltor with same qualities. Remember that market conditiond change constantly and events in the ara such as a big employer leaving or arring to a community, have an impact on home prices.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
No, I don't know Kohler, but I'd love to hear more about your community. Is it a nice place to live? I love the Dutch colonial you have listed with the red door. It's lovely.
How in the world do you know what a property is worth in Kohler? Do you know Kohler?
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- 0.0/5.0
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