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Replies (16)
- William Metzker, "MrLiam"
- Contributions:210
How have you been damaged?
- feenixrising
- Contributions:6
You are either a lawyer or work for Zillow, or both. How can you sell your home when the less than eager buying public is assuming they can trust values on Zillow and use them to negotiate downjh?? From my own experience, my home is listed twice, once at 600K and once at 1M. How is that for damages? How can I even ask for my fair market value with erroneous information floating around like that and no way to get it corrected. Zillow might as well say my house is condemned. Zillow needs to be stopped......
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26833
If your home is listed twice on Zillow, most likely the second is a duplicate created by an agent or owner. You can flag the duplicate and request it removed. Open the home details page, hover cursor over "edit" and chose "report problem". They will remove the one without the sales history, tax data and other public data. It usually takes a week or two.
- feenixrising
- Contributions:6
I am the owner and I listed the home for rent without sales info (it has been in my family since it was built in 1936) and no tax data. Zillow then generated a value. Just recently a second listing popped up with a value nearly half of the first valuation. The higher valuation is more accurate. Why should I have to police this public information. How many leads have been lost because of this discrepancy which is at the very least specious as far as my listing goes. Would you even bother contacting a landlord/seller when such a discrepancy is made public? Zillow has already caused me harm by allowing this second posting. If I cannot establish clear monetary damages, I will pursue as defamation/slander. It is NOT MY JOB to police Zillow but I am sure going to find out whose job it is.....your sentiments are very transparent.
@feenixrising
" It is NOT MY JOB to police Zillow but I am sure going to find out whose job it is"
It surely has to be Zillows job to demonstrate a 'duty of care' in how it develops and publishes zestimates. The posts a few days ago by Stan Humphries, Zillow Chief Economist, demonstrate that Zillow places ZERO importance on homeowners views of the value of 'their homes' and admits Zillow is totally screwed up with flaws in the zestimate algorithm and how it interprets data. Stans comments can be read here in case you have not seen them
http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/In-the-Forum-Stan-Humphries-Chief-Economist-Zillow-Posts-about-Zestimates/439868/
" It is NOT MY JOB to police Zillow but I am sure going to find out whose job it is"
It surely has to be Zillows job to demonstrate a 'duty of care' in how it develops and publishes zestimates. The posts a few days ago by Stan Humphries, Zillow Chief Economist, demonstrate that Zillow places ZERO importance on homeowners views of the value of 'their homes' and admits Zillow is totally screwed up with flaws in the zestimate algorithm and how it interprets data. Stans comments can be read here in case you have not seen them
http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/In-the-Forum-Stan-Humphries-Chief-Economist-Zillow-Posts-about-Zestimates/439868/
- Ryan O'Donnell, "Ryan ODonnell"
- Contributions:23
I think what people need to realize is that Zillow is not as big and persuasive as what their sales agents and your mind tells you. Stop to think about how small of a bubble you are really thinking in...
-A grave majority of people use a Broker to list or purchase a home. -Brokers all know what Zillow is and what it is not.
-Most people trust their Broker and will listen to reason and facts presented to them.
Therefore I, nor most other Brokers and people in the business, (if they really think about it) have been "hurt" by Zillow. So the public in the end is not hurt because of what will ALWAYS be used as the authority in home valuation...THE COMPARABLE!
So feenixrising will just have to use a Broker that will understand this and sell their home. As well, they will need a buyer who will look at the facts and use reason in their offer. Plain and simple.
Don't spend life angry, just move on.
-A grave majority of people use a Broker to list or purchase a home. -Brokers all know what Zillow is and what it is not.
-Most people trust their Broker and will listen to reason and facts presented to them.
Therefore I, nor most other Brokers and people in the business, (if they really think about it) have been "hurt" by Zillow. So the public in the end is not hurt because of what will ALWAYS be used as the authority in home valuation...THE COMPARABLE!
So feenixrising will just have to use a Broker that will understand this and sell their home. As well, they will need a buyer who will look at the facts and use reason in their offer. Plain and simple.
Don't spend life angry, just move on.
- feenixrising
- Contributions:6
Well first of all, check your comments because you make a remark that neither supports nor denies your claim: "Therefore I, nor most other Brokers and people in the business, (if they really think about it) have been "hurt" by Zillow".
Secondly, it is interesting that you use the term "grave majority" referring to sellers who use brokers.
I for one do not want to be part of that "grave majority" and my intent was to gain exposure on Zillow in attempt to attract my perfect buiyer. Well I, like most of us, live in an area where there is a glut of homes on the market and in my particular area, as in many others, the homes are reasonably comparable relative to S.F. SO, if I am to stand out and be of interest to the buyer who wants to do his own footwork - of which there are many - I do not need Zillow inflating or deflating or otherwise misrepresenting what I have to sell. That possibly perfect buyer willn ot even "click" on my llisting. I will be passed over.
Ryan, I am not responding in anger here but rather in disbelief that an entity such as Zillow can prevail without accountability. I have used Loopnet and CoStar in my commercial dealings. I have used Realtor.com and MLS.CA in my residential dealings. All of these interet entities are information providers. Is it so little to ask that the information be correct?
Secondly, it is interesting that you use the term "grave majority" referring to sellers who use brokers.
I for one do not want to be part of that "grave majority" and my intent was to gain exposure on Zillow in attempt to attract my perfect buiyer. Well I, like most of us, live in an area where there is a glut of homes on the market and in my particular area, as in many others, the homes are reasonably comparable relative to S.F. SO, if I am to stand out and be of interest to the buyer who wants to do his own footwork - of which there are many - I do not need Zillow inflating or deflating or otherwise misrepresenting what I have to sell. That possibly perfect buyer willn ot even "click" on my llisting. I will be passed over.
Ryan, I am not responding in anger here but rather in disbelief that an entity such as Zillow can prevail without accountability. I have used Loopnet and CoStar in my commercial dealings. I have used Realtor.com and MLS.CA in my residential dealings. All of these interet entities are information providers. Is it so little to ask that the information be correct?
- Ryan O'Donnell, "Ryan ODonnell"
- Contributions:23
Semantics.
You're trying to do it your own way and you have that right. You're a smart person so you've obviously done your homework as to what other homes that are comparable have sold for. Are you selling your house for around that price? If so, then I assure you that you will not be affected no matter how low/high Zillow says your house is worth.
I feel like the idiot for continuing to clarify, but If 8 out of 10 (that is nearly the statistic of people who use realtors) are selling or buying a home using a Broker, then that should HELP your case even more! You're trying to blame Zillow for you not going where the buyers are, and then trying to justify that the buyer for your home is looking on Zillow and NOT using representation.
If your "perfect buyer" is trying to make an offer on a house based on Zillow and someone is willing to sell to them at that price, then you didn't get beat by Zillow, you got beat by the free market. Plus, your house being so similar in S.F., etc. just got valued at that price!
I don't love Zillow either, but it's almost laughable to see people that think it's being used as any kind of authority for the market. Let it go...it's not, and people know it. If they don't they will find it out. You're focusing on the minority.
Why does Zillow have to answer to you when you have a choice not to use them?
You're trying to do it your own way and you have that right. You're a smart person so you've obviously done your homework as to what other homes that are comparable have sold for. Are you selling your house for around that price? If so, then I assure you that you will not be affected no matter how low/high Zillow says your house is worth.
I feel like the idiot for continuing to clarify, but If 8 out of 10 (that is nearly the statistic of people who use realtors) are selling or buying a home using a Broker, then that should HELP your case even more! You're trying to blame Zillow for you not going where the buyers are, and then trying to justify that the buyer for your home is looking on Zillow and NOT using representation.
If your "perfect buyer" is trying to make an offer on a house based on Zillow and someone is willing to sell to them at that price, then you didn't get beat by Zillow, you got beat by the free market. Plus, your house being so similar in S.F., etc. just got valued at that price!
I don't love Zillow either, but it's almost laughable to see people that think it's being used as any kind of authority for the market. Let it go...it's not, and people know it. If they don't they will find it out. You're focusing on the minority.
Why does Zillow have to answer to you when you have a choice not to use them?
- feenixrising
- Contributions:6
We are each arguing from our own cave. I do have to disagree regarding your inference that Zillow has no influence. I have had mortgage brokers, insurance agents, and yes, potential buyers and tenants use the information on Zillow to quote rates and argue pricing. Zillow is not the benign creature you make it out to be. I realiz eyou have a vested interest in brokerage, but more and more people are doing their own research and that is precisely where Zillow can do the most harm.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21462
"I have had mortgage brokers, insurance agents, ... use the information on Zillow to quote rates and argue pricing." -
Well, read Zillow's "terms of use"... that is a clear violation of Zillow's terms of use, so if a party is to be "sued", it is the mortgage brokers and insurance agents.
Why would an insurance agent care about present market value anyway? There are numerous levels of insurance that can be obtained for a property, but most are some form of "replacement value", and insurance companies have always had their own methods for calculating that. They are not typically insuring the "land" against "loss", but only the structures, plus of course liability should someone get injured on the property. The lenders typically want the structures insured for "fire loss" at a minimum to protect their collateral.
Besides, why are you resurrecting an old thread that has very little to do with your present concern? Why don't you start your own thread with specifics for your circumstances so that you can get your concerns resolved?
"From my own experience, my home is listed twice, once at 600K and once at 1M" -
Then why did you set a "make me move" on it for only $239k? Or is that one of the family "rentals"?
See "what is a Zestimate" regarding the redundant home details page and how to get rid of it.
Well, read Zillow's "terms of use"... that is a clear violation of Zillow's terms of use, so if a party is to be "sued", it is the mortgage brokers and insurance agents.
Why would an insurance agent care about present market value anyway? There are numerous levels of insurance that can be obtained for a property, but most are some form of "replacement value", and insurance companies have always had their own methods for calculating that. They are not typically insuring the "land" against "loss", but only the structures, plus of course liability should someone get injured on the property. The lenders typically want the structures insured for "fire loss" at a minimum to protect their collateral.
Besides, why are you resurrecting an old thread that has very little to do with your present concern? Why don't you start your own thread with specifics for your circumstances so that you can get your concerns resolved?
"From my own experience, my home is listed twice, once at 600K and once at 1M" -
Then why did you set a "make me move" on it for only $239k? Or is that one of the family "rentals"?
See "what is a Zestimate" regarding the redundant home details page and how to get rid of it.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
"...more and more people are doing their own research and that is precisely where Zillow can do the most harm."
I agree with that completely. Zillow should be a place where people can get information. There is a lot of useful information on the site for people doing their own research. and that is the main reason that I started to use Zillow in the first place. Part of the problem seems to be that some people only look at the number they want to see and don't look at what the limitations of those numbers really are.
People may argue that a house is only worth the Zestimate, but unless they consider the limitations the argument is empty. Almost like judging someone negatively for being married four times without finding out each previous spouse had died. It bothers me when lenders, insurance people etc use Zillow as a tool without ever understanding how broad it is. Looking at one number like the Zestimate or Rent Zestimate doesn't tell them everything and stopping there is not good for anyone unless it is just a passing curiosity.
I agree with that completely. Zillow should be a place where people can get information. There is a lot of useful information on the site for people doing their own research. and that is the main reason that I started to use Zillow in the first place. Part of the problem seems to be that some people only look at the number they want to see and don't look at what the limitations of those numbers really are.
People may argue that a house is only worth the Zestimate, but unless they consider the limitations the argument is empty. Almost like judging someone negatively for being married four times without finding out each previous spouse had died. It bothers me when lenders, insurance people etc use Zillow as a tool without ever understanding how broad it is. Looking at one number like the Zestimate or Rent Zestimate doesn't tell them everything and stopping there is not good for anyone unless it is just a passing curiosity.
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1969
Well feenixrising some do not agree with the "Facts" or Reasoning/observations presented to you so far..
Actually for 9-10 months now many people have disagreed with it
I do think this is an astute & accurate view
"Zillow is not the benign creature you make it out to be."
Thank you for taking the time to share
Actually for 9-10 months now many people have disagreed with it
I do think this is an astute & accurate view
"Zillow is not the benign creature you make it out to be."
Thank you for taking the time to share
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21462
"In October 2006, the National Community Reinvestment Coalition filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission stating that Zillow was "intentionally misleading consumers and real-estate professionals to rely upon the accuracy of its valuation services despite the full knowledge of the company officials that their valuation Automated Valuation Model (AVM) mechanism is highly inaccurate and misleading." In a letter dated May 4, 2007, the FTC elected not to investigate this complaint, which was later withdrawn by the NCRC". - Wikipedia
There is nothing "new" about disagreements and complaints regarding Zestimates. There have been complaints posted every month since at least middle of 2007 when the forum was started. Typically an average of one per day.
For 8 or 9 months "many" have disagreed with Zestimates and the reasoning behind them? No, for over 6 YEARS many people have disagreed with Zestimates and the reasoning behind them.
So far (and I've been reading the complaints diligently for other reasons), no one has provided any "legal grounds" for why
1) assigning arbitrary values to other people's assets is "illegal"
and
2) publishing "opinions of approximate value" for someone else's assets is "illegal".
If people really believe one or both of those items, they need to find the legal grounds for making their case in court. Or even for arguing for a change in policy.
If such grounds exist, I would really like to know. So if you find it, please post it. I've been searching numerous legal sources, and can't find such grounds.
There is nothing "new" about disagreements and complaints regarding Zestimates. There have been complaints posted every month since at least middle of 2007 when the forum was started. Typically an average of one per day.
For 8 or 9 months "many" have disagreed with Zestimates and the reasoning behind them? No, for over 6 YEARS many people have disagreed with Zestimates and the reasoning behind them.
So far (and I've been reading the complaints diligently for other reasons), no one has provided any "legal grounds" for why
1) assigning arbitrary values to other people's assets is "illegal"
and
2) publishing "opinions of approximate value" for someone else's assets is "illegal".
If people really believe one or both of those items, they need to find the legal grounds for making their case in court. Or even for arguing for a change in policy.
If such grounds exist, I would really like to know. So if you find it, please post it. I've been searching numerous legal sources, and can't find such grounds.
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1969
No one said or suggested there was anything "New" about there being
"disagreements and complaints regarding Zestimates"
I think the suggestion or attempt to imply the Last 9-10 months haven't seen a significant increase in "disagreements and complaints regarding Zestimates" would be an attempt to mis-lead...untrue..a lie
Don't think during those 9-10 months it's been "Typically an average of one per day."
I think attempting to suggest it hasn't been "many" would be an attempt to mis-lead...untrue..a lie
"So if you find it"..
I'm not looking and don't claim I know if there is or not..
I just don't think you know either or are enough of a Legal expert to be telling people don't waste your time, you don't have a chance, they will never yadda yadda as if you did ...
"disagreements and complaints regarding Zestimates"
I think the suggestion or attempt to imply the Last 9-10 months haven't seen a significant increase in "disagreements and complaints regarding Zestimates" would be an attempt to mis-lead...untrue..a lie
Don't think during those 9-10 months it's been "Typically an average of one per day."
I think attempting to suggest it hasn't been "many" would be an attempt to mis-lead...untrue..a lie
"So if you find it"..
I'm not looking and don't claim I know if there is or not..
I just don't think you know either or are enough of a Legal expert to be telling people don't waste your time, you don't have a chance, they will never yadda yadda as if you did ...
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
True. There are some that see no useful information on Zillow. Others that have a specific complaint about the site. They want their Zestimate raised and Zillow won't raise it. Beyond that point, it becomes a matter of what they decide do about not getting the response that they desire.
Even Zillow accept there is a business risk of legal action in respect of erroneous zestimates and rent zestimates. The attached is from a thread at the time the SEC 10-K statement was published back in March.
"We may in the future be subject to disputes regarding the accuracy of our Zestimates and Rent Zestimates.
"We may in the future be subject to disputes regarding the accuracy of our Zestimates and Rent Zestimates.
We provide our users with Zestimate and Rent Zestimate home and rental valuations. A Zestimate is our estimated current market value of a home based on our proprietary automated valuation models that apply advanced algorithms to analyze our data; it is not an appraisal. A Rent Zestimate is our estimated current monthly rental price of a home, using similar automated valuation models that we have designed to address the unique attributes of rental homes. Revisions to our automated valuation models, or the algorithms that underlie them, may cause certain Zestimates or Rent Zestimates to vary from our expectations for those Zestimates or Rent Zestimates. In addition, from time to time, users disagree with our Zestimates and Rent Zestimates. Any such variation in Zestimates or Rent Zestimates or disagreements could result in distraction from our business or potentially harm our reputation and could result in legal disputes.
I think it is time for a class action against zillow, they have no legal right to value My Home!
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