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Answers (13)
Best Answer
- Lori Ann Fisher, "Lori Ann Fisher"
- Contributions:12
I had to check this out myself and yes, the rates do change. The program shows the mortgage amount based on a % down and appears to scroll through a list of 10%, 20% etc. If you click on the mortgage box you can adjust the numbers to fit your situation.
- Erin Lantz
- Contributions:13
Pasadenan is spot on – the interest rates displayed for the estimated payment calculations are national averages refreshed each hour, and are based on quotes in Zillow Mortgage Marketplace for borrowers with a credit score over 740 who requested a conventional, fully-amortized loan for an owner-occupied, single family residence with a maximum loan-to-value ratio of 80% and a loan amount between $200,000 and $417,000. We'll add a help button that reflects this to prevent additional confusion going forward.
The estimated monthly payments are outputs of our calculator tools that aggregate rates as explained above, and do not reflect rates specific to any particular borrower's situation. For personalized loan quotes, we encourage borrowers to submit their own loan request on Zillow Mortgage Marketplace.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
And Zillow makes no money off of loan products sold... they only make money off of advertisements, and off of "pay per click". (They used to make money off of E-mail contacts and Phone contacts; but I'm sure that must have been a logistics nightmare). They make it extremely clear they are neither lenders nor loan officers. They provide a platform and forum for licensed loan officers to quote and sell products, but they provide no quotes nor loans of their own.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
I'll let their legal council make their own decision. I'm only hoping they at least will provide some more notes so that people will know what they are looking at.
Not to mention, I'm hoping they will clarify if it is median or average... of the quotes. It used to say median, but that word was removed, and when I asked about some other data they said "average"; but it states neither on the site now. For large volumes of quotes (such as for a full day for the nation), the average and median are essentially the same. But it makes a huge difference when there are sparse quotes, such as hourly for the States, especially the smaller States.
Yes, it is just a "calculator" with a "machine opinion of approximate monthly payment"... but they really need to note where those reference rates are coming from, even if two of the three match the numbers in the chart in the right margin. (And the chart in the right margin needs footnote clarification on the source and interpretation too; but at least there one can click on the link to get further details... but it still doesn't state if the number is hourly or daily... or median or average or moving average...) (I only know it is hourly as I have watched the numbers change on the hour, and because I've been downloading the hourly data nightly for both the 30 year and 15 year fixed rates for 20% down, 740+ FICO).
By the way, I think it would be helpful to let people change the interest rates on the home details page too (or at least the FICO score and whether owner occupied, and amount of fees, and whether "manufactured/mobil"...), but I think they figure people will just click on the link to get specific quotes if they want that kind of detail.
Not to mention, I'm hoping they will clarify if it is median or average... of the quotes. It used to say median, but that word was removed, and when I asked about some other data they said "average"; but it states neither on the site now. For large volumes of quotes (such as for a full day for the nation), the average and median are essentially the same. But it makes a huge difference when there are sparse quotes, such as hourly for the States, especially the smaller States.
Yes, it is just a "calculator" with a "machine opinion of approximate monthly payment"... but they really need to note where those reference rates are coming from, even if two of the three match the numbers in the chart in the right margin. (And the chart in the right margin needs footnote clarification on the source and interpretation too; but at least there one can click on the link to get further details... but it still doesn't state if the number is hourly or daily... or median or average or moving average...) (I only know it is hourly as I have watched the numbers change on the hour, and because I've been downloading the hourly data nightly for both the 30 year and 15 year fixed rates for 20% down, 740+ FICO).
By the way, I think it would be helpful to let people change the interest rates on the home details page too (or at least the FICO score and whether owner occupied, and amount of fees, and whether "manufactured/mobil"...), but I think they figure people will just click on the link to get specific quotes if they want that kind of detail.
"But in my mind they are no more breaking the law by posting these 3 median rates from the last hour of quotes than I am by posting the median trend charts from their data on the discussion board."
You are not providing "quotes" bt posting a static number and you are not in the business of profiting from mortgages. By enabling the consumer to change the variables, it becomes a "quote", "estimate", "enticement"; whatever you want to call it, but it's no longer just "here is the median quote" it becomes, "here is the median quote and see how it changes based on what you input".
That's called a quote. If you are trying to say it's a payment calculator, then they have no need to post a static rate and the borrower should be able to change that rate. Couple that with the fact that Zillow is a "for profit" site that provides mortgage related services and you better believe they are subject to TILA.
I suspect there is a lot in your mind Pasa that has little to do with reality. File this one as such.
You are not providing "quotes" bt posting a static number and you are not in the business of profiting from mortgages. By enabling the consumer to change the variables, it becomes a "quote", "estimate", "enticement"; whatever you want to call it, but it's no longer just "here is the median quote" it becomes, "here is the median quote and see how it changes based on what you input".
That's called a quote. If you are trying to say it's a payment calculator, then they have no need to post a static rate and the borrower should be able to change that rate. Couple that with the fact that Zillow is a "for profit" site that provides mortgage related services and you better believe they are subject to TILA.
I suspect there is a lot in your mind Pasa that has little to do with reality. File this one as such.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
I see no APR for the approximate monthly payments on the home details pages, neither at the top, nor the bottom. It states ARM; not APR; and APR shows up no where.
At the bottom, for the estimated payment, it does have a line item for mortgage insurance, so that is much clearer than calculation at the top of the page.
By the way, I sent an E-mail to have their general council look into the wording issue (and this thread) and make sure they are not violating anything. Obviously, it is not my issue and I don't care. But in my mind they are no more breaking the law by posting these 3 median rates from the last hour of quotes than I am by posting the median trend charts from their data on the discussion board.
The median quote rates provided are no different than one would get by clicking on the rate trend chart in the right margin, and clicking on "interactive graph" in the right margin, then choosing the specific loan program in the left column. 2.71% now for the 5/1 ARM. (NO, not APR; this is initial annual rate; not APR).
At the bottom, for the estimated payment, it does have a line item for mortgage insurance, so that is much clearer than calculation at the top of the page.
By the way, I sent an E-mail to have their general council look into the wording issue (and this thread) and make sure they are not violating anything. Obviously, it is not my issue and I don't care. But in my mind they are no more breaking the law by posting these 3 median rates from the last hour of quotes than I am by posting the median trend charts from their data on the discussion board.
The median quote rates provided are no different than one would get by clicking on the rate trend chart in the right margin, and clicking on "interactive graph" in the right margin, then choosing the specific loan program in the left column. 2.71% now for the 5/1 ARM. (NO, not APR; this is initial annual rate; not APR).
"They are not quoting anything, nor advertising any rates... it is only a machine generated opinion of approximate monthly payment based on median ZMM quotes for the previous hour for 740+ FICO. "
Wrong, if they wanted to do that they would just put a payment based on a rate and down payment. The reason they put the APR is specifically because they are trying to stay within TILA that states that if they post a payment, they must disclose an APR. It makes no difference if they are the lender or not. Even the lead selling sites have to post an APR with their payment. The problem here is that the APR is obviously wrong because it does not change. If they believed they are not bound by TILA then they could just post the payment and be done with it right?
The statistical nature of what they are posting is irrelevant to my point. I couldn't care less if they were posting the average temperature of a hogs butt in New Zealand; the problem is that it's being disclosed as an APR and it does not change. Where the get the info may be fascinating to you, but of no consequence to the law.
Sometimes Pasa you really need to stop thinking you understand things you clearly don't understand.
Wrong, if they wanted to do that they would just put a payment based on a rate and down payment. The reason they put the APR is specifically because they are trying to stay within TILA that states that if they post a payment, they must disclose an APR. It makes no difference if they are the lender or not. Even the lead selling sites have to post an APR with their payment. The problem here is that the APR is obviously wrong because it does not change. If they believed they are not bound by TILA then they could just post the payment and be done with it right?
The statistical nature of what they are posting is irrelevant to my point. I couldn't care less if they were posting the average temperature of a hogs butt in New Zealand; the problem is that it's being disclosed as an APR and it does not change. Where the get the info may be fascinating to you, but of no consequence to the law.
Sometimes Pasa you really need to stop thinking you understand things you clearly don't understand.
"I just checked "with taxes and insurance"; and there is a substantial difference between 19% and 20% as compared to between 20% and 21%, so PMI does seem to be considered as part of the insurance."
What do taxes and insurance have to do with PMI or APR? When you add impounds for taxes and insurance the APR does not change nor should it. That part actually works right. You cannot advertise the same APR for a loan with and without PMI, it's not honest and it's not legal.
What do taxes and insurance have to do with PMI or APR? When you add impounds for taxes and insurance the APR does not change nor should it. That part actually works right. You cannot advertise the same APR for a loan with and without PMI, it's not honest and it's not legal.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
They are not quoting anything, nor advertising any rates... it is only a machine generated opinion of approximate monthly payment based on median ZMM quotes for the previous hour for 740+ FICO. (it is just a subset of their "mortgage calculator" that also doesn't quote rates).
What is missing is the footnotes.
When is states "see current rates" it is obvious the rates given were for illustration and approximation only.
Zillow is not a lender, thus they will not advertise rates. They only publish statistics on rates provided by licensed lenders.
What is missing is the footnotes.
When is states "see current rates" it is obvious the rates given were for illustration and approximation only.
Zillow is not a lender, thus they will not advertise rates. They only publish statistics on rates provided by licensed lenders.
"Since it says "estimate" and is not "quoting" any rates, I don't think they are in violation. "
Have you read TILA? maybe you should. It's a clear violation. Are you saying someone can advertise a 1.5% APR as long as they state it's an "estimate"? Also, how do you figure they are not quoting a rate?
Have you read TILA? maybe you should. It's a clear violation. Are you saying someone can advertise a 1.5% APR as long as they state it's an "estimate"? Also, how do you figure they are not quoting a rate?
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
I just checked "with taxes and insurance"; and there is a substantial difference between 19% and 20% as compared to between 20% and 21%, so PMI does seem to be considered as part of the insurance.
(Again, more footnotes would help).
(Again, more footnotes would help).
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21458
Yes, I noticed several months ago that many items that should be included in the calculations weren't such as PMI when one is putting less than 20% down.
It also only allows integers for % down, so one can't calculate with the minimum of 3.5% down.
Since it says "estimate" and is not "quoting" any rates, I don't think they are in violation. The 3 interest rates given are just the medians on ZMM for the previous hour, for the nation, assuming 20% down, and 740+ FICO.
It doesn't even auto-correct for changing the % down, and offers no place to put the FICO, and gives no info on fees.
But they have a link to "see current rates on ZMM"; so people can get custom quotes for their specific criterion.
It is very nice to have for a "quick check" of rent verses buy. I like to set the down payment to 0% for that comparison, even though few loans are available on that basis, and I wouldn't take one anyway.
I would like to see more footnotes so that people know what they are looking at.
(The APR is not shown at all; just initial monthly payments, excluding PMI; but it will let you add in taxes and insurance. Why owner insurance, but no mortgage insurance; I have no clue).
It also only allows integers for % down, so one can't calculate with the minimum of 3.5% down.
Since it says "estimate" and is not "quoting" any rates, I don't think they are in violation. The 3 interest rates given are just the medians on ZMM for the previous hour, for the nation, assuming 20% down, and 740+ FICO.
It doesn't even auto-correct for changing the % down, and offers no place to put the FICO, and gives no info on fees.
But they have a link to "see current rates on ZMM"; so people can get custom quotes for their specific criterion.
It is very nice to have for a "quick check" of rent verses buy. I like to set the down payment to 0% for that comparison, even though few loans are available on that basis, and I wouldn't take one anyway.
I would like to see more footnotes so that people know what they are looking at.
(The APR is not shown at all; just initial monthly payments, excluding PMI; but it will let you add in taxes and insurance. Why owner insurance, but no mortgage insurance; I have no clue).
That's very interesting and a 100% TILA violation. Never even noticed that "feature" before but Zillow should S-Can it quickly. The APR doesn't even change when you change down payment. Even if you input 3% down, it gives to the same APR as 20% and we all know that is impossible. Even at 90% if you were to buy out the PMI the APR MUST rise to account for that. The entire thing is in fact illegal to quote payments without proper APR and comes with hefty fines PER INCIDENT.
Just saying
Equally Interesting, I just happened upon this quote and am amazed.
3.5% with half a point for origination ($1200) and a half point in discount? Really?
Clay Branch, do you have that in Georgia these days?
One stop shopping on the Z at it's best!
Just saying
Equally Interesting, I just happened upon this quote and am amazed.
3.5% with half a point for origination ($1200) and a half point in discount? Really?
Clay Branch, do you have that in Georgia these days?
One stop shopping on the Z at it's best!
I was wondering how the monthly mortgage estimate increases while you are viewing a home on Zillow?
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