Profile picture for jeflo

Is the Government increasing home buyer tax credit?

I heard that the first time home buyer tax credit may be increased.  Is that true?? How much??
  • October 07 2009 - US
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Answers (117)

Profile picture for Blue Nile
And, if "the rally fueled itself", then there would be no need for further government intervention, and thus the answer to the original question would not ONLY be "NO", but would be "it won't even be renewed", as well as the interest rate and FHA and USDA "interventions" would end.

NO, it isn't even a "rally", and NO, it is not "fueled by itself".  The market is still in decline with a temporary plato due to government intervention.  (The bubble has to deflate or the market can never really "recover").

SO, Congress WILL pass a 2010 buyer tax incentive that will be at least as large as the 2009 one.  The only question is WHAT will be in the actual bill that passes, who will qualify, and WHEN it will pass.  NO, it will not be an "increase" of the existing incentive; if will be a separate bill for 2010, but of course some of them want to pass it early.


No, it absolutely will not be $15k.  Nor will it be $3k.  It is most likely to be between $8k and $10k.
  • October 19 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
"you are wrong bmf, something has changed from march. this rally. it is fueling itself." -

Your so called "rally" is only fueled by two major government intervention programs, and one of them is about to temporarily end.

Look at "cash for clunkers" to see how government intervention causes a temporary rally and what happens when the incentive ends.  OR, just wait until December to see what will  happen.

As for the PPIP, any affect that has had has only been speculation and temporary "holding" of assets by the lending institutions, now knowing there is a "floor" beneith their investments; but there has been no sign on the market that there has been any real "PPIP" intervention yet as the foreclosure rates keep increasing, and the foreclosures canceled are just "postponed".  Thus we still need to wait to see the effect of PPIP.

  • October 19 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
and its not trickery.

you said

The problem is that every society has its own set of norms.  The acceptance and rejection of certain values have a much larger influence on economics than you may think.  Other views of how to fix the system only address one or two specific issues.

you also said

You do not conform to the norms of society, right? Well, i have news for you!!  You are conditioned!  Obviously, you are not the pioneer of this theory, but you have made it perfectly clear that you accept it. And you feel content when you are around a group that thinks the same way!  Did you think that way before you joined the group.


i agree. pasadenean agrees. you may disagree that we disagree, but that is simply for the sake of disagreement. it is impossible to avoid the propaganda machine, the eternal pavlovian experiment of stimulus and reward. its inescapable. how could anything be normal if people weren't conditioned? i'm not 100% convinced that you aren't just throwing around words to impress someone, but i am sure that your revelations are pretty mundane in the sense of human psychology.
  • October 19 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
yeah, because you read more than i do... right. i totally believe you.

btw who lost american idol last week?
  • October 19 2009
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Profile picture for jeflo
Hey crevas eater,
I think you have tricked yourself into thinking i agree with you a couple times.  I actually think you may have some sort of mental disability.   You need to stop reading philosophy that you are unable to understand.  That is a big problem with your responses.  If you like philosophy, i suggest you should start reading books on logic.





   
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
yes, quite absurd... confusing the stock market with some kind of barometer for the overall economy... thats like investing 101...

this thread has totally wandered off topic... oh well
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for BMFPitt
you are wrong bmf, something has changed from march. this rally. it is fueling itself.

Silly me for thinking of fundamentals.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
If I had bought the "entire stock", and more showed up at another store, I would have bought more (yes I did by more several times), and if the price went down even further (impossible in this case), I would have bought more at the even lower price than I bought at the excelent price.

How much was the "entire stock" in the 10 or so stores I saw them at?  Perhaps 1000 pieces?  For $1000 investment I could have turned that around for at least $20,000 in less than 3 years?  But no, I only bought about 15 and gave all but one away.  They no longer are available anywhere at any price.

  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
And I am quite sure that Dr Suzuki predates Chomski.  Yes, the consepts are "quite old", and should have been self evident; yet educators still prefer the "Socrates" model.  And they still want to force the results to fit a "bell shapped curve".  Clearly those that want bell-shapped curve results do not want "education opportunity for all", but are looking to maintain an economic class system.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
yeah... glenn beck just whines a lot 0.o

Sure, many of the things I post might be interpreted as "extremism", but I chose that writing style to get people to consider there may be another view that is different than their own, and for them to question the foundation on which their assuptions are made.

quoting the linked text

Skinner remarks several times that his analysis of the tact in terms of stimulus control is an improvement over the traditional formulations in terms of reference and meaning. This is simply not true. His analysis is fundamentally the same as the traditional one, though much less carefully phrased.

feel free to infer what i am suggesting you actually do
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
Absolutely I was suggesting that, as well as a broad spectrum of views on most subjects, especially if in a subject area of interest that affects how one makes personal decissions or effectiveness in resolving issues.

I was also suggesting that all of us are going to see everything we read and are exposed to through the lenses of what we were exposed to in our early years.  And thus I will interpret things differently than many others due to filtering them through a biblical lens, or a Eric Fromme (sp?) lens, or a Dr Suzuki lens, or an HG Wells lens, or a Aurther Connan Doyle lens, or a "Level 7" lens.

If one wants to understand where another person is coming from, they need to understand how they filter and evaluate information.


No-one can "think outside the box" if they are stuck inside the box.

Sure, many of the things I post might be interpreted as "extremism", but I chose that writing style to get people to consider there may be another view that is different than their own, and for them to question the foundation on which their assuptions are made.

  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
Reasoning in the same way, we may conclude that the parent induces the child to walk so that he can make some money delivering newspapers. Similarly, the parent sets up an "echoic repertoire" (e.g., a phonemic system) in the child because this makes it easier to teach him new vocabulary, and extending the child's vocabulary is ultimately useful to the parent.

now, doesn't that sound just like you?(just kidding)
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
 had you purchased the entire stock you would not be using any form of dollar cost averaging and instead would be using a combination of "cornering a market" and "taking advantage of increased competition for dollars"( by having a lot of cash, you can get deals not available to everyone else.)
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
By the way, I use the same "modified dollar cost averaging", for buying items on close-out at stores.  The only problem there is knowing when buying too much is too much, and when it won't be needed, and when there isn't enough storage, and when it may spoil before it can be used.

Then, I keep thinking I should get a state re-sale licence so that after storing items for a few years that I could sell them at a substantial profit when they are no longer available anywhere???

The biggest "mistake" I made is not buying all the walking horse toys in stock when they were less than 1/20 of the cost of manufacture.  I've given most of those away as gifts; but if I bought the entire stock, I could have gotten an excelent return on investment in 3 years just by renting a both at a local swap meet.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
his original works had to do with grammer, linguistics and psychology and also seem to follow the general tones of this thread...

he postulates however that your argument that phonetic spelling is confusing the chicken and the egg. that babies and infants are programmed to understand language and that they learn it by hearing and doing. (its quite old now :P) here is one of my father's favorite works of his.

besides i am reading glenn beck atm, you want to stay "immune to propaganda" you have to read things that challenge your point of veiw... weren't you just suggesting that?
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
I have not "read" any of his works yet, but I have heard him speak many times on the Radio, including last week when parts of a Speech he gave in San Fransisco this year were aired.

In general, he is a little "leftist" for me, but his views on world conflict and the mid-east situation are very similar to mine.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
read any Chomsky, pasa?

you might enjoy it.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
Yes, BMFPit and I tend to be at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues.  But in general, I have agreed with the majority of what he has posted on this thread.

Yes, unfortunately, Vivianne is too arrogant to realize that she is arrogant.  So she projects her arrogance onto others, but unwilling to read anything as any form of enlightenment.

Really, before you critizise a book you haven't read; why don't you take the time to read it?


And this thread has just obtained the status of being one of the top 500 "most responded to" threads on Zillow, out of over 250 thousand; thus within the top 0.2%.  But the views to posts ratio is only 12.6, thus really not that good at encouraging anyone to read it besides those that have posted on it.


  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
As for "education reform"; I personally met with Dr Suzuki on more than one occasion and he personally explained his research and results with me.  You might read his book "Nurtured by Love; The Mother Tounge Method"; but you've already stated you don't believe in reading books that don't agree with you and that you are not willing to spend the time.

But he published that book WAY before he did his research on Mathematics education.  And he died in 1998.

Sure, many in the public education field still ridicule his methods; but really, you can't argue with the success he has had with well over a million students.  Well published data that can easily be looked up.


But as I've stated before; people that are part of a "system" are not willing to change since their purpose is to maintain the system, and since their livelihood depends on maintaining the system.

Of course I can't spell.  I've consistently admitted that on these boards for well over 2 years.  And I've also indicated why - public education in the U.S. system after the start of the phonic reading emphasis.  Still, there is a difference in more recent generations in the careless confussion between words like "there, they're, and their", and "our and are".  Although related to the same phonetic problem, you can tell how old someone in the United States is just by the frequency of the wrong use of these words.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
No, it was not "recent books I've read", I read those books before you were born, as well as others that I've suggested you read that are ignored.

Of course you can claim "our political system is the best that has ever existed", but I have been in plenty of other places where the people make the same claim, and their political, economic, and social problems are the same or worse.

Of course I know how to fix it.  It was written in our "declaration of independence".  You simply ABANDON the existing system and start over!

No, of course the poltiticians that are part of the system aren't willing to do that.

As for "political changes"; Of course I know how to do that and have done so.  How many people do you know that have spoken more than 600 times at public hearings and public governmental meetings?  And how many people that you know that have spoken have provided better presentations with more accurate data and charts than governmental staff?  And how many people do you know that have "proved" that the government provided numbers in the offical reports were "wrong" and had to be revised, and actually got them revised several times?  That is my "personal" experience.  I also personally got them to shut down over 30 illegal drug sales locations even though they had been entrenched for over 35 years.  Sure, they were not willing to shut down the entire illegal opperation even though I clearly indicated how it could easily be done at minimal cost; but I've also explained why they weren't willing to do it.

You are simply "foolish" to think that spending millions of dollars to run for a public office will have any benifit or provide any public voice for required corrections.  There is sufficient public data to show that simply does not work.  Instead, you are much better off putting that money into making a TV series or fiction movie.  Ideas carry much further when they are attached to entertainment, even if the data is completely false.  Take for example "Star Trek".  "Warp-10" is 10 times the speed of light; the nearest star is 5 light years away, thus requires 6 months to get there at the fasted speed available for the craft (and physically impossible according to present physics).  And the "voyage" was to be 5 years total and visit all those places?  So we get government sponsored projects like "SETI"; when any communication detected would be from groups long dead, and any response we give would arrive at thousands of generations later?  It is plain foolishness based on misunderstanding due to entertaining fiction.  And we think that we can communicate with species of other solar systems when we don't even try to communicate with existing species on our own planet?  Where is that pocket Star Trek translation machine when we need it?
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Blue Nile
If one followed NTETS posts for the past year and a half, it is quite clear what his investment stratagy was going to be and why.  There is no "making it up" when he posted it so far in advance.  Most people didn't have the options he had nor the need.  He got some very good advice from people on these boards that have been studying economic patterns for quite some time.

But as he said, the housing market already bubble peaked and it still on its way back down.  For those realtors that keep claiming "housing is cyclical"; then the question is the period of the cycle, and if the cycle is 20 years, then you wait for the end of the down part of the cycle before you get back in.  Even then, the peak will not be as high at the next up part of the cycle due to the resulting government intervention and caution from people's recent memory.

But stocks are different.  People pulled out quickly to cover their other debt (housing...), thus leaving an irrational low.  And as it kept going down, he used modified dollar cost averaging buying even more as it went lower knowing that the government intervention would bring the market back up and knowing that the irrational behavior of groups of people would cause the market to over react again.

Still, there is an art to picking the sectors and specific investments.  Those that are too conservative would not try what he did.  Of course the news has been that long term investors are still staying out of the market, so now that the market as recovered to the point where it started to fall last year and there is still nothing to sustain those values, it is not surprising to want to become more conservative before the next down cycle.

As Randy H pointed out; the stratagy can not work "long term", but it was very clear when the government started intervening in the market that it would work short term.

NTETS needs to be congratulated for following through on what many would have considered risky, and though they may have "suggested" such things, were not actually willing to follow through with the actual cash.

On the otherhand, NTETS was in a position that he had to put the money somewhere.  Unlike many of us that are entrenched with existing long term positions which we just said "let it ride".  Of couse we knew something about the upcoming changes; but many of us are extremly weary of trying to time the market, in spite of the good market timing analysis provided by AZ Rob.


  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
simply put both $8000 and 10% are wrong. shall i proceed to find every mention of "the 8,000 dollar tax credit" on these forums and correct them? after all its "simply wrong..."

i think you underestimate the shear number of heartland houses that fall into the 0 - 80,000 range who will never see an 8,000 tax credit.
  • October 18 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
i am aware of the rules, it is 10% up to a maximum of $8,000. saying that it is 10% not more or less accurate than calling it an $8,000 tax credit.

10% bribe is short hand and yes its a semantic argument.
-----------
Now, between simply and technically, and legally what exactly is your problem with the way I corrected the information about the $8,000 tax credit?
----------

if you didn't understand my objection, why did you proceed to tell me that i am "embarrassing" myself with how way off base i am?

i didnt critique your information, just your word choice. if you had said that bluegrass isnt grass but a kind of music, i would just have quickly have pointed out that it is both. it isn't 8,000 or 10%, its both (10% < 8,000). the info he offered wasnt wrong, merely incomplete, thus only in certain circumstances would it have been wrong, which is why you then proceeded to spend an hour to say "8,000 or 10%"

i cant think of another way of explaining it, nor am i inclined.
  • October 18 2009
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>>>correction, it is technically(as opposed to simply)not correct. simply speaking, its more or less correct, while yes in technical sense yours statement is more accurate than his.

i object to you saying it is "simply" anything and then using 4 paragraphs to make your point. <<<

NTETS,

?????
You are embarrassing yourself and sadly you are too arrogant to see it.

The tax credit is $8,000 maximum.  

The tax credit is NOT 10%!

If the tax credit was 10% then buyers of homes costing $500K would be entitled to $50K and those purchasing at $5 Million would be entitled to $500K. 

Fortunately for the taxpayers this is not the case.

Now, between simply and technically, and legally what exactly is your problem with the way I corrected the information about the $8,000 tax credit?
 

  • October 17 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
on average you can predict the behavior of any group of people with surprising accuracy in almost any situation. you can also measure it and influence it.

sociology, economics, psychology, political science, marketing... pick your field. study after study confirms it. just because you cannot make arguments concerning 1 group member doesn't mean that you can't generalize to the group. your reasoning is flawed, not mine and not his.

and i never said i was immune to conditioning... i actually welcome limited conditioning. its the flat out propaganda and lies that i tend to be more skeptical of. of course you have to believe some information that you cannot measure yourself so, i do fall prey to that as well. and i accept it. and again you conclude your arguement by agreeing with me... you are really bad at this, arent you?

Well, i have news for you!!  You are conditioned
! ... everybody is, which is supposedly the premise that you are arguing against.
  • October 17 2009
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Profile picture for jeflo
NTITS "crevas eater",

social norms is just another word for groupthink. when you do what you are told, you are being conditioned... by any definition social norms arise out of the willingness of individual group members to subvert their own interest for the betterment of society or to defer personal responsibility.

That is exactly what i thought you would say!!!!  Because you, along with profilactaca will always look past reality, straight into stupidity.  You see, the arguement you buy into is that if someone is a member of a group, they conform to that groups norms.  They are, as you would say, "conditioned."  You can put your sociology text book away now.  I am going to show you how shallow your statement really is:

You claim to be someone who does not fall prey when the Govn't who tries to brainwash you, right.  You do not conform to the norms of society, right.  Well, i have news for you!!  You are conditioned!  Obviously, you are not the pioneer of this theory, but you have made it perfectly clear that you accept it. And you feel content when you are around a group that thinks the same way!  Did you think that way before you joined the group.
  • October 17 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
This is simply NOT correct

correction, it is technically(as opposed to simply)not correct. simply speaking, its more or less correct, while yes in technical sense yours statement is more accurate than his.

i object to you saying it is "simply" anything and then using 4 paragraphs to make your point.
  • October 17 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
also

I still can't believe it's shot up this far and stayed up this long considering nothing has actually improved since March.


you are wrong bmf, something has changed from march. this rally. it is fueling itself.

first, individual households who had lost 60%+ of their net worth are now calculating themselves only off maybe 25%. banks who had to mark down non-loan assets are now taking gains. there is more money in the system, and optimism that the trends will continue. that is a substantial change from march, although i never did see the down-side capitulation i wanted to. very little "this one is different, the market is screwed for decades... well i saw it in September, but not in March. people were and are holding onto that V shaped recovery idea, which also explains, in part this irrational rally.
  • October 17 2009
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Profile picture for Mr Caveat
@ jeflo
>Everything you post has something to do with, "brainwashing", "propaganda", or some sort of reference to evil corporations and government...

>The problem is that every society has its own set of norms.


case and point.
--------------------
Case and point, for what?

--------------------

duh.

social norms is just another word for groupthink. when you do what you are told, you are being conditioned... by any definition social norms arise out of the willingness of individual group members to subvert their own interest for the betterment of society or to defer personal responsibility.

thus you agree with pasadenean when you submit that people act in acoordance with social norms. they are in fact following "programming".

now i agree that pasa uses poignant words and dispenses them haphazardly, but he is quite sharp and the distinction between your post and his is more one of diplomacy than fact.

or "case and point"
  • October 17 2009
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>>>The government is writing loans with 3.5% down (and giving up to a 10% bribe to pay for it) on rapidly depreciating assets to people with poor credit and shaky employment - and you're complaining that they're being too stingy?<<<

BMFPitt,

This is simply NOT correct.

If by 10% bribe you meant the $8,000 tax credit, well the tax credit is $8,000 at the maximum - NOT 10%.

Actually, on homes ABOVE $80K the tax credit is $8,000 max. On homes BELOW $80K the tax credit is 10% which amounts to LESS than the $8,000.  Example, if house costs $69K the credit is $6,900.

Also, the tax credit applies ONLY to buyers who did not own a home within the last THREE years and the credit must be paid back if the house is not kept for at least three years.

Also, FHA loans do require a very stable employment and at least 620-650+ credit score.
  • October 17 2009
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