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ZQ-PNMCPCL

I received this quote, but how can they give me a loan without a down payment of 3.5%. Why dont they just be honest and tell me that I cannot get this loan without the down payment?
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October 08 - Los Angeles

Replies (24)

Profile picture for shapiroamg
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Since September 2009

flag it then...
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October 08
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Nice review, that's exactly what it should say
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October 08
Profile picture for daveskow
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Since October 2009

not for real
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October 08
Profile picture for mjseligman
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Since November 2009

let zillow know

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October 08
Profile picture for spencer
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Since December 2008

Hi guys,
I flagged this for our mortgages team.

Someone will investigate, and also comment here.
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October 08
Profile picture for Geoffrey ONeil
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Since October 2009

Nida is taking care of it.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

-Geoff-
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October 08
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Since February 2009

Okay, so let me get this straight... just seeing how far this will go.

If a consumer puts down they want a mortgage at 96.75%, that would be 3.25%.  So since this is not 96.5% or under, lenders should not quote these either?  Even if they include a note which says they will need 3.5% down on FHA loan?  Zillow does not support any refinance programs over 96.5%, correct?

I am just looking for clarification and direction from Zillow and the regulars.
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October 08
Profile picture for Geoffrey ONeil
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Since October 2009

Bob,

For FHA purchase loans, 96.5% LTV is the maximum allowed. Lenders should not quote FHA purchases above this amount.

We do support HARP refinances, which can go as high as 125% LTV.

Including notes with criteria that needs to be met to make the loan is not allowed under the Zillow Code of Conduct.

-Geoff-
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October 08
Profile picture for ColoradoLender
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Since January 2009

That really does not make sense to support HARP 125% loans as the borrowers are unable to indicate to us if they currently have the type of loan required to do this loan.  That would essentially be the same as allowing us to assume the current loan is an FHA or VA loan and we can just streamline it.  Which you do not allow us to do.

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October 08
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Since February 2009

This is true.  You can't qualify for a HARP loans unless they have a loan with Fannie or Freddie.  So, Zillow really does not support them.  So, there should be a limit of 96.5% LTV on all quotes and requests; or they need to ask a question if their loan is currently owned by Fannie or Freddie.
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October 08
Profile picture for ColoradoLender
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Since January 2009

FHA will go to 97.75% Bob.
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October 08
Profile picture for Greg Darlin
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Since September 2009

This has been a contention of mine for some time and have talked to Nida.

When Zillow allows Lenders to quote on LTV's over and above 97.75 on refinances, it creates a huge problem, as I have explained.

1.  Zillow doesn't know if the original loan is a FHA, VA or Portfolio product at all.  None of the above qualify for the Refi Plus, HARP programs available to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac borrowers.
2.  Zillow doesn't know if the borrower has ever paid MI on their loan.
3. Zillow doesn't know if the borrower's mortgage is held by Fannie or Freddie.  If held by Freddie, then the borrower has to go back to the original investor.

So, why allow such?  It makes no sense at all and will do nothing but make the site worse with garbage quotes from bad lenders.

Zillow says that no one is allowed to quote above 96.50 LTV on any purchase loan request.  Really?  I have sent to Nida and staff countless quotes from the same lenders doing so.  One guy in particular, Stephen Kaplan quotes 100% purchase money over and above the maximum county limits.  In his comment he states certain assets have to be pledged!  Again, a garbage quote.

I have suggested that in order to quote above 97.75 on refinances, Zillow has to create more fields for the borrower to fill out:
A.  Who owns the loan, Fannie, Freddie? 
B.  If Freddie, borrower has to imput the original investor.
C.  If none of the above, the request can't be launched.
D.  Is MI currently being paid or LPMI?  If so, the request can't be launched.

Until they do that the simple fact is that there are just more garbage quotes being allowed that will frustrate the borrowers.

And please tighten up the credit score ranges to comply with Conventional and Government loans . . .
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October 08
Profile picture for Edmonds WA
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I have a specific question to Geoffrey O'Neil about his statement:
 
"Including notes with criteria that needs to be met to make the loan is not allowed under the Zillow Code of Conduct."

The code of conduct second principle is:

Be transparent
Disclose all relevant information upfront.

Relevant information are guidelines the borrower would have to meet to obtain the mortgage you are disclosing.  Is disclosing the loan that you are offering is a Fannie Mae loan and requires approval by Fannie Mae and a Lender a criteria?

For example, if a borrower is asking for a 102% rate/term refinance the loan program DU REFI PLUS is available on existing Fannie Mae loans. If I provide a quote saying that this quote requires the criteria that the existing loan is a Fannie Mae loan I have been entirely transparent. Is this against the Zillow code of conduct because I have stated a criteria?


Example 2: a borrower requests 77% cash out on a Fannie Mae loan.  This is available in areas where property values are not declining. Autoquoting will provide quotes because autoquoting does not know about declining markets. 

If I manually quote and recognize the area as a declining market and say the quote is for only 75% cash out which is relevant and transparent is my quote against the terms of Zillows code of conduct because it has a 75% loan to value criteria?  Are all the autoquotes which are impossible for the borrower to obtain within the Zillow code of conduct?


As for now I have entirely stopped quoting over 80% loan to value but I would like to be able to offer relevant quotes and to provide service to those people.
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October 08
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Since February 2009

FHA will go to 97.75% Bob.

Nic, not on Purchases, but I should have specified purchase.  I don't quote refis over 90%. 
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October 08
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
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Since February 2009

Excellent points Greg and Stephen!
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October 08
Profile picture for hot2trott
If you knew you had to have 3.5% down then why did you post a loan request for nothing down?
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October 08
Profile picture for LoanModSpecialist
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Since September 2009

definitely flag it...
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October 08
Profile picture for MoneyIdeas
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In California, there is a loan program that allows for financing beyond the 96.5%, "CHF Access down payment assistance program".  It's an awesome program that can help many people purchase homes, but zillow apparently doesn't allow it to be disclosed in the notes.

This program works in concert with FHA's (203b, 234c) federally guaranteed loans, which currently requires only a 3.5% down payment. Qualified California applicants will be able to secure a 15 year 2nd mortgage for 3% of the sales price (which can be utilized for down payment and/or closing costs). This down payment assistance loan is being offered at a very low rate of interest (currently 8.25%). The other .5% may come in the form of a gift allowing for no down payment money out of pocket from the buyer.

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October 15
Profile picture for 203K Specialist
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Since January 2009

99.5 is still not 100% and therefore should not be quoted.  You cannot assume gift funds...Why not assume 3.5% gift funds and call it 100% financing?
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October 15
Profile picture for socal_engr
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Since November 2009

Why? Why are loans made/pushed to people who have no skin in the game?

3.5% down and 96.5% financed, but you can piggyback a 15yr 2nd for another 3% and now only need .5%.

Isn't this one of the big reasons why the meltdown occurred? Too many looking to get in with "nothing down" and make a killing on the flip? And then not enough margin to support a decline in price?

Sorry...just had to vent.
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October 15
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

I still can't get past the oxymoronic statement:

"This down payment assistance loan is being offered at a very low rate of interest (currently 8.25%)."

HUH?

300K with 3.5% down at 5% is one thing

300K with zero down at 8.25% is roughly $700 more a month. 

No oxy about what that is!
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October 15
Profile picture for Courtesy Mortgage
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Since January 2009

The Acess program you get regular FHA loan for 96.5% (Say 5% rate), ONLY the secondary financing is at 8.25%  (3% of purchase price financed in separate loan at 8.25%).  

Guidelines are pretty strict, I think max 41 Debt Ratio, but it is a reputable program to help make purchase possible for first time buyers and the tems are very fair.
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October 16
i did a loan for a borrower that had very little money to put down. We got a seller assist which allowed the seller to pay 6% of the costs and the borrower didnt have to make august or september rent, since we did the loan in august and there were no payments on our mortgage fo 2 months, he brought thise 2 months rent to the table and the deposit he got back- which allowed him to purchase the home, fo reserves he got a gift letter from his brother saying he would give hime the 3.5% down, which he never needed. Click on my picture to reply
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October 17
Profile picture for 203K Specialist
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Since January 2009

Auria,

Since FHA requires not only a gift letter but receipt and source of funds it would seem that you have either committed bank fraud or snuck one by the goalie...either way it's not good advice!

I can;t help but think in staying with your lending practices that your picture isn't you...it looks like it came from one of the many training power points we lenders have to take every year.
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October 17
 

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