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Loan Mods Delaying Inevitable

Profile picture for dacolan
Contributions: 475
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Since October 2009

The bottom line is that there is no evidence that HAMP is working or can, and the Congressional Oversight Panel has seen through the ruse:

    The Panel found, "The result for many homeowners could be that foreclosure is delayed, not avoided." HAMP modifications are often not permanent: For many homeowners, payments will rise after five years, and although the program is still in its early stages, only a very small proportion of trial modifications have converted into longer term modifications. The Panel is also concerned about homeowners who face negative equity or are "underwater" - that is, the value of the loan exceeds the value of their home. For many borrowers, HAMP modifications increase negative equity, a factor that appears to be associated with increased rates of re-default.

Yep.

At the time I said that these efforts would fail as there is no actual solution other than forcing those who made bad loans to eat them. HAMP, and all other programs like it, are inherently just another gimmick promulgated upon the public by our government - another form of "extend and pretend", that when boiled down to its essence is legally-sanctioned accounting fraud.

The solution to unaffordable mortgages, as I have repeatedly noted, is foreclosure and a forcing downward of housing prices whether Congress and The Administration want to admit it or not. Affordable housing requires not gimmicks but houses that are inexpensive enough for people to be able to purchase and afford on an ongoing basis. We're not there, despite the crooning of The National Association of Realtors and other associated pressure groups.
...
Housing prices must come down significantly - very significantly - from here.
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October 14 - US

Replies (12)

Profile picture for sunnyview
Contributions: 10849
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Since January 2009

Thank you for the top quality link. That is a must read for every taxpayer, currently comfortable homeowner and distressed homeowner facing their bank. I do not like people getting sold a bill of goods when it comes to modifications. The banks tell them a story, try to get their 401K drained and in the end the homeowner is lining up to lose their home later in many cases. 

There has to be a better system to help homeowners who can make reasonable payments. I think the government must also insure that this situation never happens again. Banks too big to fail means that the antitrust laws and regulations already in place were not being enforced.
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October 14
Profile picture for DebtsNMesses
Contributions: 6662
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Since July 2009

.. and the FDIC is now in the RED. (Had to add that Sunny) lol
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October 15
Profile picture for sunnyview
Contributions: 10849
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Since January 2009

So true debts. What will happen to the FDIC if they start to sputter? They currently have so may banks on the watch list that even if 20% of them go it could really be a problem. I also wonder about the stability of FHA. They seem to be the last bastion of low down payment, higher risk borrowers on the edge of being able to qualify for a mortgage. The economic numbers are so strange/mixed right now that if they were a business, I'd be afraid of their ability to weather even a small storm at this point.
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October 15
Profile picture for agentblu15
Contributions: 263
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Since July 2009

check out this article for some truly infuriating statistics
http://www.latimes.com/classified/realestate/news/la-fi-harney20-2009sep20,0,2560658.story

while I feel bad for those who honestly had a reasonable mortgage, did not overextend themselves, and through hardship found themselves unable to pay, I have absolutely NO sympathy for the almost 20% of defaulting homeowners who are purposely going into foreclosure.  The fact they they either a) made a bad real estate decision, b) are too impatient to wait for the market to rebound, or c) just don't feel like paying for a house that's declined in value, those are NOT acceptable reasons for contributing to the strain on our banks, and the decline of our housing market.

My personal feeling: anyone who fits this model of purposeful foreclosure (high income, good credit, history of on-time payments for all other debts, no efforts to modify or contact lender for options) that stops paying and just waits for 60 days so they can go into foreclosure and "get out" should be held legally responsible for EVERY PENNY that they owe on the mortgage, even if it has to be taken out of their paychecks, car, etc.  There should be serious consequences, not rewards, for intentionally going into foreclosure.  Personal responsibility doesn't mean "keeping your word" to the bank-- it means living with the decisions you make in your life, whether they be in real estate, marriage, or anything else.

Maybe, just like in marital divorce, if you intentionally and willfully "divorce" yourself from your mortgage obligations, you should have to give up half of all of your assets. 
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October 15
Profile picture for sunnyview
Contributions: 10849
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Since January 2009

That is a great link. It really deserves it's own thread. It sure tells you where some people are sitting. I believe strongly in personal responsibility too. I want to think this mess will teach people something that they can use to make better decisions down the line. but then I get depressed thinking about how short people's memories are.
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October 15
Profile picture for space_acer
Contributions: 4346
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Since March 2009

"So true debts. What will happen to the FDIC if they start to sputter?"


 Somewhere down the line, which I bet has already been discussed behind close doors, the government will have to admit home prices, were indeed far above affordable levels based on local salaries and inflation.

I cant even imagine how the government  can sit there and publicly justify the inflated prices over the past 10 years as being somehow the norm.  

I listen to some of the statement by Sheila Blair (FDIC) and wonder if she even gets it. 

 

 

 
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October 15
Profile picture for DebtsNMesses
Contributions: 6662
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Since July 2009

If the inevitable is stopping foreclosing altogether by the banks, the loan mods are simply keeping a few people in the homes until the inevitable happens.

Many statistics say loan mods are doing nothing to stem foreclosures.
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October 16
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
Contributions: 2628
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Since October 2009

Banks asked for it......suckas!!!!





Well, this country isn't about personal responsibility, if it was then all the frivolous law suits wouldn't be filed each and every day and citizens wouldn't rely entirely on gov't to do everything.   People used to wash their debt away with a sweet little bankruptcy, then in 2005 the banks lobbied and got rid of it.......that has contributed to people having to choose which debt to default on or that they can default on and now it is the mortgage.  Considering the avg American has $10K in debt perhaps it would be better to have bankruptcy than foreclosing on homes worth so much more........


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October 16
Profile picture for DebtsNMesses
Contributions: 6662
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Since July 2009

Nov. 8 (Bloomberg) 2007-- Wamu got what it wanted in 2005: A revised bankruptcy code that no longer lets people walk away from credit card bills.

The largest U.S. savings and loan didn't count on a housing recession. The new bankruptcy laws are helping drive foreclosures to a record as homeowners default on mortgages and struggle to pay credit cards debts that might have been wiped out under the old code. 

Oldy but goody link Lady. The real problem is that if the credit cards companies were NOT permitted to merge with the banks in 1999, this never would have happened. The old laws were working and not so out-dated! lol

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October 17
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
Contributions: 2628
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Since October 2009

It is sort of ironic.  What I would love to know is how much money did bankruptcy actually cost the banks relative to the mortgage defaults??  

People like to point blame at others and say "I pay my bills you pay yours" and that is all well and good and totally understandable, I do it so expect it from others, but let's look at the inflation of the past few decades as credit cards came into full use/acceptance in our society........the price of goods rose much faster than people's incomes and today American's are actually less wealthy because their incomes don't go as far.  

When my daughter was 2yrs old a McD's Happy Meal was $2.10 (with tax) and now only 8 yrs later it is $3.89.  Our income has not risen at the same rate. We have all been secretly duped by the financial system to use the credit, to extend ourselves to stay at the same level (as our parents) which has put many American's into serious debt.......our Grandparents didn't have credit and the cars, house, and food they bought were relative to their income.   

Food, cars, and housing........I make almost double my county's avg salary and yet I can't afford to buy a car without financing it for 5 yrs or more, can't buy a house without doubling my monthly payment......

The world has gotten flat over the years and as other nations become wealthier our nation becomes less wealthy......instead of realizing or accepting this we drank the koo-aid that kept us drones to the financial institutions.   Without No doc/no interest loans homes could never have doubled in price while incomes did not.......

If everyone stopped using credit prices for EVERYTHING would come crashing down.......

 

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October 17
Profile picture for DebtsNMesses
Contributions: 6662
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Since July 2009

Very well said Lady! Also, don't you love this insurance push? I think they're scared people will figure out it's cheaper to pay cash for the doctors than the outrageous monthly healthcare insurance bill. Our Congressman was bragging that he only pays $500/mo, which is $5000 so far this year... whereas I have only paid $831 so far this year. HUGE difference. I swear it's AIG lobbying our Congress, because they've lost so many monthly payers.

... and that current bill on the table! OMG, pay for 2 years before you get your healthcare benefits? AIG must really be hurting. Congress and the President already promised them every single American will be customers AND that they will make a profit or they get the Fed Budget too, what more do they want?? lol

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October 17
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
Contributions: 2628
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Since October 2009

Amen Debts.......we pay $17K a year to have health insurance, the portion "we pay" is about $4K and my hub's employer pays the rest, which really is a misnomer, if they didn't "pay" it, we would. If we didn't pay it you bet your sweet bum his employer wouldn't raise his pay by $17K......In the 1970's the majority of employers paid for health care as part of the employment package, as well as pensions, etc....then companies decided to improve their bottom line and slowly took benefits away and continued to pay their employees the same......so essentially people made less cause now THEY had to pay for their retirement and health care and that was a first step to lower pay. It is almost like the argument of who pays the commission on a house......one way or the other someone pays and it often comes off the back of the little people.  

I would love to be able to "bank" that money each year....cause if some horrible illness befalls my family we will likely end up bankrupt anyway......the majority of people who file bankruptcy for illness had health insurance....... 

So far I have had to pay more to diagnose and treat my daughter cause the insurance company won't cover her autism and the school doesn't see an "educational" need to provide her extra services.   Aspergers & ADD, PDD-NOS.........means you are screwed unless you are very wealthy.


 
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October 17
 

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