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More shady quotes!

Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
Mortgage Lender

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Since January 2009

It never ends! It's impossible to provide an honest service here when these people continually bait and switch. Ignoring appraisals now seems to be new again and the easiest way to cheat the system. They figure the consumer expects to pay for it so why not just leave it off. Hey, why not leave off your origination or points or whatever it is you are charging to make a profit while you are at it!

Not one person doing it

Not 2 people

It is the new trend!

The top 3 people all on the same quote. Now if this is just one quote, how common do you think this is? How does someone that quotes the fees accurately and honestly get their quote viewed by the consumer?

Message to consumers:
If you receive a quote that leaves off the appraisal, that's an obvious message that the person is trying to manipulate you! Please do not fall for it, go back and look at the quotes you received on page 2 from the ethical people that quoted you accurately, then review that person that quoted you appropriately.

 

 
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September 27 - US
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Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

Robert, I could use a tip, is that Dapper Dan pomade?
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November 02
Profile picture for Down to 580 Lender
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Since August 2009



Zillow should just pre-fill out all the quotes for us and let the Borrower pick based on our good looks... Call if you like what you see....   No that's not Brad,..but I get that all the time..
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November 02
Profile picture for SunTrust
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Since May 2009

the 5/1 on that running in the 3.99% to 4.25% range.
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November 02
Profile picture for Greg Darlin
Mortgage Lender

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Since September 2009

Geoff,

Zillow allows for the Lender to zero out any and all fees.  So, if a lender doesn't show a fee for the appraisal, it is Zillow's fault too.

The lender is dead wrong in assuming the seller will pay for the appraisal fee upfront.  I have never seen it done and I believe an underwriter would have a huge problem with that.  However, if the seller is giving a credit toward settlement, then the appraisal fee may be part of the fees picked up. 

Again, for a lender to assume the appraisal fee is being paid by the seller is a joke, but again, Zillow allows . . .

To rectify all this, why doesn't Zillow just institute credit fields by the line 800 items?  That way, there is zero misunderstanding and the quote is transparent.  And, can you guys please do away with the 15 day lock?

Clean up the quote screen and there wouldn't be this problem, Geoff.  A bigger violation of the Code of Conduct is to allow lenders to zero out fees and not have credit fields instead.
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November 02
Profile picture for 203K Specialist
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Since January 2009

I'm Partical to the 15 day rate locks for closings that are 30-60 days out!  You will never have to deliver on the quote....Brilliant!
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November 02
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

"Just curious ya'll....Any of you got Investment Prop rates at a 72% LTV for a 5/1 ARM at 4.5%?  Or a 30 yr Fixed at 5%?"

The 5/1 ... yes
The 30 year, not so much
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November 02
Profile picture for Colorado Mtg Broker
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Since November 2009

Yeah Steve....definitely NOT seeing it done!
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November 02
Profile picture for SteveHeaney
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Since September 2009

Tammy, only if you take the 1.75pt hit as a discount to those OOC rates.  I rhetorically bet you knew that :-)  I see it quoted, but don't see it done :-)
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November 02
Geoff, what are you talking about? Don't drag my name into this garbage. But thank you for the clarification for Steve. He needed to hear it from you.
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November 02
Profile picture for Colorado Mtg Broker
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Since November 2009

Just curious ya'll....Any of you got Investment Prop rates at a 72% LTV for a 5/1 ARM at 4.5%?  Or a 30 yr Fixed at 5%??
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November 02
Profile picture for stevenhall70
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Since October 2009

Consider it done.  Thanks Geoff.
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November 02
Profile picture for Geoffrey ONeil
Contributions: 56
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Since October 2009

Steve Hall (and Jenn Monastero),

You can't leave your appraisal fees off your quotes under the assumption the seller will pay for it. That is a violation of the Code of Conduct.

-Geoff-
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November 02
Profile picture for Down to 580 Lender
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Since August 2009

You're missing my point Jen. (Not even sure it's "my" point.) I'm just saying "somebody" has to pay the Appraiser. I'm not saying the home sells for that price. That is not what we are discussing. I've never heard of a seller paying for it. I'm not saying this Steve guy is right,...I'm just saying the way he puts it,...he has a point. I can see it both ways and stated the fee SHOULD be there reguardless of who pays.
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November 02
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

Lets see, the caps, margin, rate, lock period, and appraisal cost all match ING Wholesale. The problem is he will have to PAY about  $720 to close this loan, or the 7/1 quoted at 4.125%. The rate is PAR and only fee listed is for appraisal, so the lender's fees will be just over $700 and no origination. I believe he made a remark on the Next Step for Zillow thread:

"However, part of me really thinks this will clean up ZMM to provide more bonified, doable, realistic, and accurate quoting.  Darwinism at its best."

Maybe he is talking about himself.

Free Loans

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November 01
The 800 fees are "fees in connection with the loan". It doesn't differentiate who pays the fees; it's still a fee.
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October 31
Profile picture for SteveHeaney
Mortgage Lender

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Since September 2009

Leaving an 800 line item off your quote because you "think" it may be paid by the seller, WTH.... I am sure most mortgage professionals "encourage" their buyer to try and negotiate seller paid closing costs in this buyers market but again, WTH??  You can't assume that even with personal customers you are working hand in hand with until they have a Purchase Contract and it is in writing.  I am afraid the spirit, intent and even the letter of the Truth in Lending Act has a little problem with that! 

Even when it is POC, we are still obliged to included in in a GFE as it is truly a part of the transaction.  Yes, in most cases now thanks to Cuomo and HVCC the consumer's CC is charged and it is not paid through Escrow however even then it should still show up on the HUD as part of the transaction but marked POC

Now, most of that applies when you have intimate details of a transaction.  The thought of leaving it off of a nameless, generic quote when you have no details is VERY DECEPTIVE and based upon certain assuptions that are truly against the spirit and intent of TILA

I propose we will see that same games from some when Zillow rolls out VA criteria in November.  I would bet that the same folks that would leave off the appraisal will be the ones quoting VA rates that include non-allowable VA costs with the "Assupmtion" that there will be seller paid closing costs??  Just a thought

To summize the novel in a nutshell... Anyone that does not include an appraisal in a generic purchase quote with no details should have their nutshell cracked.
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October 31
Profile picture for 203K Specialist
Mortgage Lender

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Since January 2009

Why is it I think of blazing saddles when I see a CMPS lo respond to a question....

"Gentlemen we need to protect out phony baloney Jobs"

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October 31
Profile picture for Courtesy Mortgage
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Since January 2009

I wonder if this innovative concept should also include seller paying for an appraisal on an all cash offer?  This way, the appraiser can detemine the sales price instead of the buyer and seller.  Arbitration can replace negotiation, and the HVCC appraiser earning $200 will decide the price on a 500,000 real estate transaction. 
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October 31
Robert- Even in your scenario, it still doesn't make sense. Houses don't sell for the appraised value- they sell for more OR often less. As Andrew stated- the seller doesn't care WHAT the appraisal comes back at. If it came in higher than the purchase price, would they then raise the contract price??? Granted, if it appraises lower the buyer can renegotiate (IF they have an appraisal contingency!!!), but I think you see the point here. 

The appraisal fee has never been a burden of the seller, nor should it be.



Clay, it didn't even bother me until this morning. No endorphin rush that I noted. :)
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October 31
Profile picture for Down to 580 Lender
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Since August 2009

I hate to say it but Steve makes a compelling argument. Not saying I agree because leaving out fees makes his quotes "look" better than ours, but if he says the Seller is paying for the appraisals,...than it may be so. I've never had it done that way, but I see his logic as he has explained it. The Seller wants to sell the house, so let THEM prove the value. I can also see it the other way,...the Buyer wants the house so let the BUYER take the burden of establishing what they are willing to pay for a commodity.

With all this said, I think Zillow should just put in a fixed $400 fee in the appraisal section and call it a day. If you contact a Borrower through your quote you can credit them all you like or negotiate whatever your heart desires.

But for now, we need to be on a a level playing field rather than playing chess with our quotes.

Nida,...what say you on this idea?
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October 31
Profile picture for NJShoreMortgage
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Since August 2009

Definition of Irony according to Miriam Webster (the Realtor --not the dictionary):

Seller pays for appraisal
Appraisal does not support contract price
Buyer demands reduction of price

Realtor: "I still get 6% of the original price"
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October 31
Profile picture for TarheelChip
Mortgage Lender

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Since April 2009

Steve--

What are you going to do when you quote a scenerio on ZMM and they are already under contract with no closing costs paid by the seller and the buyer wants to pay all settlement costs out of pocket?

 You assume that ZMM and everyone in the real estate market place has subscribed to your business practices.

 Leaving off a fee because you assume the seller is paying for it is wrong.  If that was the case then you should leave off all your fees.

Your thought process is going to costs you ratings and money.  You need to begin planning for the worst and hoping for the best or you are going to have more headaches than David G. rolling out the new CIC feature.
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October 31
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

I would love to see the sellers face when they are told, Here is the signed contract so we will need your credit card information to order an appraisal.
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October 31
Profile picture for NJShoreMortgage
Mortgage Lender

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Since August 2009

Hey...maybe it's just an "Idaho" thing...but here in Jersey and every other part of the country that I know of...the buyer pays for the appraisal. And Jen brings up a good point...why would the buyer trust an appraisal paid for by the seller? Heck maybe the sellers should pay for the home inspection so they can have a little control over the outcome of the inspectors report. "Here's a C-Note for your trouble...don't worry about those flying ants coming out of the window sill..."

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October 31
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

LOL Jenn, I hope you got the payoff of an endorphin rush 
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October 31
I know I'm intrigued by this latest turn of events.


Zillow, is it ok for a lender to leave off an appraisal fee based on an ASSUMPTION that  a seller will pay for it? It still has to be paid regardless, so I'm not sure how this logic works. Also, what consumer would trust an appraisal bought and paid for by a seller? I know I wouldn't. The appraisal has always been the duty of the BUYER, and for good reason.



In other news, I burned the roof of my mouth last night on hot french fries. 


 
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October 31
Profile picture for jcaf1918
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Since January 2009

James..I see you are back to your old ways and pawning off Zillow's good name to drum up business.  What is the matter the "Straight Forward Lending" Schtick got stale or were people just getting tired of reading 10 quotes per request.
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October 31
Profile picture for Bob Lowery
Mortgage Lender

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Since February 2009

Steve, are you serious?  I have never seen a buyer ask for the seller to pay for the appraisal, nor do I think any seller would have actually agreed to it.

I have never heard of something so crazy in 19 years, nor a LO so adament that this is their typical practice...very bizarre. 
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October 30
Profile picture for _Jim_
Mortgage Lender

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Since August 2009

OMG not another "Rightgeous Indignation" post by Mr. Denny..,. yet once again Fronting as the "consumer advacate" to draw attention to HIS thinly veiled offers. 

And, of course, we see the "Usual Suspects" chiming in to support his allegations... I bet their IM'ing to coordinate their responses???

... and, because I posted these observations, it's an almost certainty... I'll be "Flamed by the Lames"

JW
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October 30
Profile picture for 203K Specialist
Mortgage Lender

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Since January 2009

Link to ECOA

Maybe I missed something is sales101 but I was always under the impression that a seller always wants to get the highest price they can get...If a buyer is willing to over pay for a house why is that the sellers problem? 

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October 30

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