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As a confirmed lender and valuable member of the Zillow community, we'd like to give you advanced notification of an important upcoming change in the way lenders participate on Zillow Mortgage Marketplace. Namely, we are introducing market-based pricing for customer-initiated contacts that will roll out over the coming months.
When we launched the marketplace in April 2008, it was an experiment to see if we could build a service that successfully connected borrowers with lenders. The results exceeded our wildest expectations: borrowers are submitting an average of 50,000 loan requests per month, and thousands of lenders are helping these borrowers close loans.
While we are thrilled with the outcome, it has been a resource cost to build this vibrant service. In order to continue to grow the marketplace, make it better for consumers, and create more value for lenders, we need to continue to invest in the business. We talked with multiple lenders to discuss options for supporting the marketplace, and we believe we've settled on a method that is fair and beneficial for both Zillow and our participating lenders. In a few weeks, we will be introducing a new fee system within Zillow Mortgage Marketplace.What is it?
Until now, confirmed lenders have been able to submit unlimited quotes and receive contacts from interested borrowers for free. Under the upcoming new system, lenders will still be able to submit an unlimited number of loan quotes for free, but will be required to pay a market-priced fee when borrowers contact them regarding their quotes.
How will it work?
Just like today, borrowers will submit loan requests and review quotes provided by lenders. When a borrower decides to contact a lender, he can either e-mail or call the lender. When that contact is made, the lender will be charged a market-priced fee.
Lenders will be required to pre-fund their Zillow accounts with a minimum of $250. When a lender receives a contact, Zillow will subtract the price of that contact from the lender's account balance. Lenders can add more funds to their accounts or request their unused account balances back at any time.
How much will it cost?
The market will determine the price for each contact; Zillow will not be setting price. We anticipate prices will adjust as participation increases, and will likely settle out in the $0-$100 range. The price will be shown as part of the loan request, so lenders can use this information to decide which requests to quote. Lenders will also be able to set a maximum price to pay per contact.
We won't know for sure where prices will settle out, but given that Google clicks for mortgage keywords typically range from $7-$25, Zillow contacts should be significantly more valuable. Zillow customer-initiated contacts are borrowers who are ready to close a loan, having already reviewed multiple quotes, ratings, and lender profiles before making contact.
When will it go into effect?
We plan to roll this out in multiple stages. The first stage will begin on November 4 (subject to change). During this set-up period, lenders will familiarize themselves with the new pricing system and pre-fund their Zillow accounts. All contacts will be priced at $0 during the first stage.
The second stage is scheduled to launch on December 9 (subject to change). The market pricing mechanism will be turned on during this stage, and while it will still be free to quote, lenders must have funded accounts in order to continue quoting. Lenders who fund their accounts prior to December 9 will receive 25% off all contacts received during the launch month.
When the first stage launches in November, we will notify you by e-mail. At that time, you can go directly to the Lender Home page to add money to your account. When pricing is initiated on December 9, lenders who do not have funded accounts will not be able to quote.
Are you using the automated Quote API?
With this change, our Quote API will be updated. If you are using a third-party pricing engine, they will make the necessary changes to accommodate this new pricing system. However, if you have built your own API integration, please contact us for an updated specification guide.
How to you stop people from making fake accounts, requesting quotes and making fake contact?
- PaymentChoice
- Contributions:341
Let the money making begin!
I had always wondered when this would take effect as it was the next logical step.
Maybe quoters will think twice now before spamming quotes left and right. Since there is now a cost tied to anybody contacting them hopefully the quality will improve.
Not having a fixed cost seems odd, I would imagine that this will not be good for those looking to have a good grasp on their lead budget. $0-100 is a pretty broad range. 5 contacts at $25 a pop is a lot different than 5 at $100!!!
Will this cost be pre-determined for a time period (month, week, quarter) or will it change daily?
I had always wondered when this would take effect as it was the next logical step.
Maybe quoters will think twice now before spamming quotes left and right. Since there is now a cost tied to anybody contacting them hopefully the quality will improve.
Not having a fixed cost seems odd, I would imagine that this will not be good for those looking to have a good grasp on their lead budget. $0-100 is a pretty broad range. 5 contacts at $25 a pop is a lot different than 5 at $100!!!
Will this cost be pre-determined for a time period (month, week, quarter) or will it change daily?
- NTETS, "Mr Caveat"
- Contributions:6442
you must have learned from the forum roll-out not to just flip things on their head without telling anyone...
are you taking suggestions too or is this just informational: we are doing it, but we want you to feel involved even though you arent...?
by market based, you mean:
by Lenders will also be able to set a maximum price to pay per contact, you mean to say that requests wont be shown to lenders unless they meet certain criteria? is this like a search criteria? notification criteria? will other types of quotes be search-able if they dont fall into one's preset criteria?
will there be a beta released with test bids and such?
fancy screen-shot based tutorial?
are you taking suggestions too or is this just informational: we are doing it, but we want you to feel involved even though you arent...?
by market based, you mean:
by Lenders will also be able to set a maximum price to pay per contact, you mean to say that requests wont be shown to lenders unless they meet certain criteria? is this like a search criteria? notification criteria? will other types of quotes be search-able if they dont fall into one's preset criteria?
will there be a beta released with test bids and such?
fancy screen-shot based tutorial?
- Chris Herford, "Oklahoma Lender"
- Contributions:188
Am I able to get a refund of my initial $25 spent to become a 'Confirmed Lender" or will that be applied to my account? I can go by leads for a set cost. Why would we continue quoting when you cant give specific costs for contacts? To add to Greg's comment, what is the refund policy for bogus contacts?
Are you charging Realtors the same costs for contacts on their listed properties?
- shapiroamg
- Contributions:2825
Not making enough off of API?
- Joe Cafiero, "Superior HM Mortgage"
- Contributions:3135
What added services are we getting for this extra money or is this simply Zillow just wanting to make more money off lenders
- Chris Herford, "Oklahoma Lender"
- Contributions:188
"Maybe quoters will think twice now before spamming quotes left and right. Since there is now a cost tied to anybody contacting them hopefully the quality will improve."
Payment Choice, I agree that this might eliminate some of the spamming we see here on Zillow. I am not one of those spammers. I only quote one state and only quote manually. This majority of zillow quote requestors (ZQR's) who contact me are usually not ready to make a loan and only want to see a GFE or would like some advice and no loan is ever made. Essentially I will now be paying to give ZQR's advice. I believe this will hurt the "quality" in the long run as good, honest lenders such as myself will no longer be here quoting.
shapiroamg:
Zillow doesn't make anything from the API partnerships. The API is purely designed to improve your efficiency in ZMM by allowing you to automate your quotes.
Zillow doesn't make anything from the API partnerships. The API is purely designed to improve your efficiency in ZMM by allowing you to automate your quotes.
- Joe Cafiero, "Superior HM Mortgage"
- Contributions:3135
The big question is "Is it closer to 0 or to 100" If we are talking $5-10 per contact whatever. But if we are talking $75-100, I do not think anyone can afford $300-500 a week tabs
- Andreasmolin
- Contributions:192
- NTETS, "Mr Caveat"
- Contributions:6442
Zillow doesn't make anything from the API partnerships. The API is purely designed to improve your efficiency in ZMM by allowing you to automate your quotes.
conspiracy theories aside, do you contend that up to this point, the average of 50,000 loan requests per month, and the 200,000 responses has not made you any money in the form of any contract between you and any 3rd party(ie ad cents, etc)?
efficiency and therefore traffic is your business! (until now)
conspiracy theories aside, do you contend that up to this point, the average of 50,000 loan requests per month, and the 200,000 responses has not made you any money in the form of any contract between you and any 3rd party(ie ad cents, etc)?
efficiency and therefore traffic is your business! (until now)
- Joe Cafiero, "Superior HM Mortgage"
- Contributions:3135
What market Andrea. Be more specific
- Sherri Sherpy, "MN Mortgage Mom"
- Contributions:476
"create more value for lenders..."
How???
"talked with multiple lenders to discuss options..."
Really??
"Zillow customer-initiated contacts are borrowers who are ready to close a loan..."
Now THAT is funny...based on what statistical analysis??
- shapiroamg
- Contributions:2825
Ok, no money off of API. Got it. Its one thing to pay for a contact that might be ready to go and willing to commit, but to charge for something that is very far from happening seems silly to me. Its your site though and you can run it any way you want. But when only outlaws stick around to quote you will have outlaw quotes.
- Andreasmolin
- Contributions:192
- PaymentChoice
- Contributions:341
@ Christopher
You are right and those that are like you may stop quoting.
Unfortunately this is inevitable, Zillow like any other company needs to pay its bills and remain profitable. I am not surprised that they now want to cash in on what they have built as this could amount to a lot of money.
Viewing it from a Lender's perspective, I would never pay for something where I do not know what I'm getting from the get-go. Yes you can argue that I'm only quoting on "leads" that I choose to, but so many of these "leads" are just tire kickers who want to put out feelers.
I would never pay for a lead where the requester remains anonymous, even when they reach out to you via email you may not know anymore about them aside from their email address. Half of the people reach out only to request a GFE since that is what they are told and programed to ask for. From what I read we'll now be charged every time contact is made regardless of the outcome...
The only way I would even consider paying would be that the customers information be made available to me once contact has been made, otherwise I'd be paying for nothing.
You are right and those that are like you may stop quoting.
Unfortunately this is inevitable, Zillow like any other company needs to pay its bills and remain profitable. I am not surprised that they now want to cash in on what they have built as this could amount to a lot of money.
Viewing it from a Lender's perspective, I would never pay for something where I do not know what I'm getting from the get-go. Yes you can argue that I'm only quoting on "leads" that I choose to, but so many of these "leads" are just tire kickers who want to put out feelers.
I would never pay for a lead where the requester remains anonymous, even when they reach out to you via email you may not know anymore about them aside from their email address. Half of the people reach out only to request a GFE since that is what they are told and programed to ask for. From what I read we'll now be charged every time contact is made regardless of the outcome...
The only way I would even consider paying would be that the customers information be made available to me once contact has been made, otherwise I'd be paying for nothing.
- shapiroamg
- Contributions:2825
I post a picture of a tin foil hat and suggest loan requestors wear it for fear of Zillow reading their minds, but I dont have the energy. Good luck Zillow.
- Joe Cafiero, "Superior HM Mortgage"
- Contributions:3135
So the more quotes....the less the "contact" price is going to be...
Gregorio -
We will be archiving (recordings + emails) 100% of contacts. If you think you received a bogus contact, you will click a single button to dispute it. Zillow staff will then read or listen to the contact and credit your account accordingly. We've built some great tools and staffed up the customer service team to ensure that this process runs smoothly.
PaymentChoice -
THANKS! Good feedback. To answer your question, we have the ability to recalculate marketplace pricing daily.
We will be archiving (recordings + emails) 100% of contacts. If you think you received a bogus contact, you will click a single button to dispute it. Zillow staff will then read or listen to the contact and credit your account accordingly. We've built some great tools and staffed up the customer service team to ensure that this process runs smoothly.
PaymentChoice -
THANKS! Good feedback. To answer your question, we have the ability to recalculate marketplace pricing daily.
- Greg Darlin, "Greg Darlin"
- Contributions:3238
"The market will determine the price . . ."
Can someone please explain that one to us? Market: geographical, where most loan requests come from etc? It is way too vague and needs to be expanded upon.
Like others have said, we all can buy qualified leads for less than the range that has been given.
Great marketing though. Get thousands of lender to sign up and then start charging per contact. But, I do have a question or two about that, as Joe mentioned:
1. How is Zillow going to control fake contacts make out of malice? Better yet (not to be cynical) how do we know there isn't going to be a outsource department just firing away contacts raking in the dollars?
2. To roll out this platform, it would have been nice to guarantee some things.
3. Zillow consulted with some top lenders? Who did you consult with to determine this new platform. How many?
4. Are you going to be charging Realtors for listing properties? It seems we are taking it up the kisser but not the Realtors.
In some ways I do applaud this but things need to be clarified.
What I see is the fact that all the spamming, API lenders will go away and Zillow will lose thousands of lenders now. Hopefully, the only ones that stick around will be the honest ones. Or, it simply can work in reverse.
- NTETS, "Mr Caveat"
- Contributions:6442
i still want to know your definition of "market based"
the average "max contact price" set by all lenders across the board?
it seems to me that anything over 10 dollars would severely restrict the market.
have you considered a 2 tier system with maybe a 5 dollar per contact +250 per successful loan or some such thing... you do have the "review my lender" feature to audit the 2nd tier(obviously someone who gets a review for a contact should have passed along the check already ^_)^
this would also help the quality of reviews i think
the average "max contact price" set by all lenders across the board?
it seems to me that anything over 10 dollars would severely restrict the market.
have you considered a 2 tier system with maybe a 5 dollar per contact +250 per successful loan or some such thing... you do have the "review my lender" feature to audit the 2nd tier(obviously someone who gets a review for a contact should have passed along the check already ^_)^
this would also help the quality of reviews i think
- Jeff Robertson, "Jeff405"
- Contributions:173
I see alot of responses from Zillow here but there are still alot of questions above that are not answered.
Personally since the most recent changes I have received alot more GFE requests than good contacts. I think that your website is driving consumers to request this. Also only about 95% of them give any contact information rather than their email address. I know this has been mentioned above and I would really like to know how Zillow plans to address it. Otherwise I can see alot less of a marketplace we have here.
Personally since the most recent changes I have received alot more GFE requests than good contacts. I think that your website is driving consumers to request this. Also only about 95% of them give any contact information rather than their email address. I know this has been mentioned above and I would really like to know how Zillow plans to address it. Otherwise I can see alot less of a marketplace we have here.
Let me add 2 more questions:
2) Will consumers be forced to register now or do you plan on charging us for air quotes?
3) Do you plan on shoring up the system because now anyone can request a GFE from one of my quotes even if they were not the person that made the quote request. Will I be charged for that too? Our quotes are listed in our profiles and anyone can view one and type in their email address and make contact. How do you plan on addressing this?
I appreciate your responses.
2) Will consumers be forced to register now or do you plan on charging us for air quotes?
3) Do you plan on shoring up the system because now anyone can request a GFE from one of my quotes even if they were not the person that made the quote request. Will I be charged for that too? Our quotes are listed in our profiles and anyone can view one and type in their email address and make contact. How do you plan on addressing this?
I appreciate your responses.
- Greg Darlin, "Greg Darlin"
- Contributions:3238
This is not going to go well . . .
David G, your staff can't even keep up with all the bad quotes from the API lenders because you don't have enough staff. How are you going to keep QC 100% on fake request contacts? No offense. Your staff does a great job but they are overwhelmed right now as it is, correct?
As I have said many, many times before, how about cleaning up the quote screens before you venture down this road?
I have suggested many times that the borrower needs to input what type of loan they have: FHA, Conventional etc. They need to specify if it is Fannie, Freddie owned. Credit fields need to be installed for compliance and accuracy of the quote.
Launching a platform where we have to pay per contact and we really know jiltch is asking us to become complete idiots and throw money down the drain. Why? What do we really know about the borrower or accuracy of the loan request? Hell, the credit score ranges are still all wrong . . .
Things should have been corrected before we are asked to pay and being denied a reach around.
- Robert Benham, "FHA down to 600 OK!"
- Contributions:776
Welcome to the new Lending Tree. I dont mind paying for leads so long as I get some quality control in return. At least with LT you get full contact info AND SSI #'s. These Zillow loan requesters have no mercy on us.
Greg -
I am sorry that we don't have concrete pricing examples for you today. You will have a whole month to get comfortable with the specifics of the pricing system. Please just appreciate the fast that we're trying to give you an early heads-up to the extent that we can.
BUT ... we obviously WON'T price lenders out of the marketplace. That would be stupid. Our goal is for the borrower experience of ZMM remain unchanged or preferably, improve.
You will find that our pricing is better than your other options. If you think that's not the case, please speak to me about it. I don't think it's smart to compare the price of contacts from Zillow borrowers to the cost of leads. When a Zillow customer calls you it's a more lucrative contact than when you buy access to their contact details. But you know your numbers, so do the math and target those loan requests that offer you the best ROI.
I am sorry that we don't have concrete pricing examples for you today. You will have a whole month to get comfortable with the specifics of the pricing system. Please just appreciate the fast that we're trying to give you an early heads-up to the extent that we can.
BUT ... we obviously WON'T price lenders out of the marketplace. That would be stupid. Our goal is for the borrower experience of ZMM remain unchanged or preferably, improve.
You will find that our pricing is better than your other options. If you think that's not the case, please speak to me about it. I don't think it's smart to compare the price of contacts from Zillow borrowers to the cost of leads. When a Zillow customer calls you it's a more lucrative contact than when you buy access to their contact details. But you know your numbers, so do the math and target those loan requests that offer you the best ROI.
- Sherri Sherpy, "MN Mortgage Mom"
- Contributions:476
"so long as I get some quality control in return..."
Which leads me back to my original question: How is this going to "create more VALUE to lenders..." ???
Where IS the quality control? Where is the more value?
Next steps for Zillow Mortgage Marketplace
Today we are announcing upcoming pricing changes for customer initiated contacts in Zillow Mortgage Marketplace. Confirmed lenders will receive an email with the full details. I'm going to post that email here and have started this thread to answer any questions you might have.
The full email follows:
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