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- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
Makes sense. Previously, when the market in SoCal contracted, there was always a response in the type of house being built, or in amenities. I was wondering what the builders would do to adapt to the new scenario.
Maybe the Industry now recognizes that none of these features, that add significant value to a home, actually get any recognition when calculating zestimates so why bother with them.
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4699
I only recognized the formal living room from all of the houses I have seen. The rest is in the rich mans toys category. None of what is being taken away was really needed.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
Really? You gotta drag your rhetoric onto a thread where there might be something worth talking about?
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1969
Yeah..enough with the Rich Mans Toys stuff!
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
LOL, wrong "rhetoric". ;-)
- Michael Emery, "MikeEmery"
- Contributions:7298
Really? You gotta drag your rhetoric onto a thread where there might be something worth talking about?
Oh I dunno, I was impressed on how he dragged an irrelevant and totally disconnected topic like Zestimates into yet another posting and somehow made it seem 'fresh'.
Personally, I found the article a 'non article' as I see so few of the jettisoned amenities in homes in Minnesota. In the land where summer is twenty minutes long, we're not too keen on outdoor kitchens. We're just grateful that there's ONE kitchen.
Oh I dunno, I was impressed on how he dragged an irrelevant and totally disconnected topic like Zestimates into yet another posting and somehow made it seem 'fresh'.
Personally, I found the article a 'non article' as I see so few of the jettisoned amenities in homes in Minnesota. In the land where summer is twenty minutes long, we're not too keen on outdoor kitchens. We're just grateful that there's ONE kitchen.
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1969
Surbiton made a comment which imo would have most likely gone unnoticed or understood by most who do not come here often.
A few of those who do come here often have already posted their irrelevant off- topic opinions on many many threads about how Surbiton shouldn't.......and obviously still do
A few of those who do come here often have already posted their irrelevant off- topic opinions on many many threads about how Surbiton shouldn't.......and obviously still do
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
Things I've seen residential construction do, in response to pricing pressure, over the years in SoCal...
- Shrink lot sizes
- Go vertical (more two stories)
- Shrink the bedrooms (kind of funny seeing munchkin furniture)
- Open floor plans, feels bigger (I like this one, though)
- Zero lot lines (kind of the apex of shrinking lots)
- Townhomes, when zero-lot-line isn't small enough
- PVC pipes instead of copper
- Building "out in da boonies"
Most of the outdoor kitchens, fireplaces, etc. seem to be post-purchase add-ons as part of the landscaping efforts. As for sunrooms? Every room is a sunroom here in SoCal. :-)
And the best move the builders made to adapt to price pressure? Getting Mello-Roos passed.
- Shrink lot sizes
- Go vertical (more two stories)
- Shrink the bedrooms (kind of funny seeing munchkin furniture)
- Open floor plans, feels bigger (I like this one, though)
- Zero lot lines (kind of the apex of shrinking lots)
- Townhomes, when zero-lot-line isn't small enough
- PVC pipes instead of copper
- Building "out in da boonies"
Most of the outdoor kitchens, fireplaces, etc. seem to be post-purchase add-ons as part of the landscaping efforts. As for sunrooms? Every room is a sunroom here in SoCal. :-)
And the best move the builders made to adapt to price pressure? Getting Mello-Roos passed.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2579
Hmmm, features that are more about consumption than value going away in tough economic times. Who would a thunk it?
- Vince Curtis, "SoCal Appraiser"
- Contributions:4699
Ill miss the master tub spa....
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
Vince we will take a vote, and allow YOU to install one!
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
It makes sense to me. These are all features a person adds to their home when there is a degree of certainty that they are going to STAY long term which hasn't seemed to be the case in past 5 years or so.
I've never been clear on why someone calls a home a "starter home" in one breath and in the next wants it to have a pool or outdoor kitchen or other "extra"
it would be Great to see less construction "out in da boonies"
urban sprawl is an unwanted side effect of this for me.
I've never been clear on why someone calls a home a "starter home" in one breath and in the next wants it to have a pool or outdoor kitchen or other "extra"
it would be Great to see less construction "out in da boonies"
urban sprawl is an unwanted side effect of this for me.
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4699
Connie, "I've never been clear on why someone calls a home a "starter home" in one breath and in the next wants it to have a pool or outdoor kitchen or other "extra""
I think that is because when they first want to buy it they START to think it is a good idea. After they have lived there awhile they go uhm, ER, uh, it was not a good decision after all.
To me the entire concept of a starter home is realtor b.s.. When you look at the costs for trading up buying a starter house often makes no sense. A house should be bought for a long term solution to a need for housing. A starter home sounds like it is something you can live with for awhile but hate to have it.
That is like buying a vehicle that is rusty with well over 200,000 miles on it for $650 and expecting it to service you well for 10 years with minimal maintenance. It might but the odds are against it. At least if a cheap vehicle is not what you like it does not cost a lot to get into another one. A cheap house is a totally different financial situation completely.
I think that is because when they first want to buy it they START to think it is a good idea. After they have lived there awhile they go uhm, ER, uh, it was not a good decision after all.
To me the entire concept of a starter home is realtor b.s.. When you look at the costs for trading up buying a starter house often makes no sense. A house should be bought for a long term solution to a need for housing. A starter home sounds like it is something you can live with for awhile but hate to have it.
That is like buying a vehicle that is rusty with well over 200,000 miles on it for $650 and expecting it to service you well for 10 years with minimal maintenance. It might but the odds are against it. At least if a cheap vehicle is not what you like it does not cost a lot to get into another one. A cheap house is a totally different financial situation completely.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
well a number of those items are not popular in the northeast anyway......or midwest..they are more a southwestern - southern - west coast-ern kind of thing..............jacuzzis aren't as popular as years ago, either...most buyers are perfectly happy with a soaking tub......even in the higher price ranges
Here, if I said a home had an outdoor kitchen, most buyers would say: "Huh"????
and : "Why??"
same with outdoor fireplace ...and even a sunroom unless it has heat and AC.
I often chuckle when I see HGTV, and the agent showing a home emphazising the 30 ft ceilings.........I think to myself.................yep, and the heating and AC bills that go along with those volume ceilings will be a hoot, too!
Here, if I said a home had an outdoor kitchen, most buyers would say: "Huh"????
and : "Why??"
same with outdoor fireplace ...and even a sunroom unless it has heat and AC.
I often chuckle when I see HGTV, and the agent showing a home emphazising the 30 ft ceilings.........I think to myself.................yep, and the heating and AC bills that go along with those volume ceilings will be a hoot, too!
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
Yep i can see where an outdoor kitchen wouldn't be appealing up thataway!!
Dan...agree but it's not just realtor bs it's bs period. People come in with those crazy messed up ideas. The tall ceilings is the one that I really don't get- I'm with Debbie...I don't really want to heat that space.
outdoor kitchen...not really a big deal- but a big patio and a fireplace for late fall/winter is very appealling but still to me that's a project for the home owner- builder just to include a big slab for it.
not a big fan of builders in the first place. functionally my 1971 home was better and had more character. just located in wrong spot
Dan...agree but it's not just realtor bs it's bs period. People come in with those crazy messed up ideas. The tall ceilings is the one that I really don't get- I'm with Debbie...I don't really want to heat that space.
outdoor kitchen...not really a big deal- but a big patio and a fireplace for late fall/winter is very appealling but still to me that's a project for the home owner- builder just to include a big slab for it.
not a big fan of builders in the first place. functionally my 1971 home was better and had more character. just located in wrong spot
The tall ceilings can help keep a room cooler in the summer. But then, a well designed attic space could do the same thing. In many areas, summer cooling is much more expensive than winter heating. Rubber stamping building designs for different climate zones makes no sense.
San Bernardino CA has plenty of those "McMansions" recently built with the high ceilings, open floor plans, open stairwells, upper landing looking down on the living space, in the "outskirts", on "clearance", as it was overbuilt during the bubble and a very high percentage are REO. The High Ceiling living room fad comes and goes over the decades. For larger spaces and large groups of people, they make sense. For "intimacy", they usually don't. But it is still also a matter of personal taste. There is no reason for builders to be building them now though as there is still a glut on the market.
Who's ever heard of a "ballroom" where the large winding stair case was not present for the grand entry? (Or in the case of the "Sound of Music", the grand "good night" exit?)
If one even remotely might want that gas grill outside, one should at least pipe the gas over for it, unless they plan to just keep filling propane tanks.
San Bernardino CA has plenty of those "McMansions" recently built with the high ceilings, open floor plans, open stairwells, upper landing looking down on the living space, in the "outskirts", on "clearance", as it was overbuilt during the bubble and a very high percentage are REO. The High Ceiling living room fad comes and goes over the decades. For larger spaces and large groups of people, they make sense. For "intimacy", they usually don't. But it is still also a matter of personal taste. There is no reason for builders to be building them now though as there is still a glut on the market.
Who's ever heard of a "ballroom" where the large winding stair case was not present for the grand entry? (Or in the case of the "Sound of Music", the grand "good night" exit?)
If one even remotely might want that gas grill outside, one should at least pipe the gas over for it, unless they plan to just keep filling propane tanks.
- Caveat Emptor
- Contributions:500
To me the entire concept of a starter home is realtor b.s.. When you look at the costs for trading up buying a starter house often makes no sense.
no. 95% ltv loans are BS. interest only mortgages are BS.
A starter home makes perfect sense. you buy what you can afford, pay money towards equity when you can, buy your furniture at walmart and garage sales, sleep on a futon or in a slung up hammock until you can buy a real bed. building a life. making it work.
_____________________
same with outdoor fireplace
When i was in New Zealand and Austalia I got a new found respect for the outdoor sitting room. Great conversations and surprisingly entertaining. i don't know if I entertain enough to justify it, but I have never felt better "hosted" before or since. belive me, hot or cold, wet or dry, there is something about a nice roaring fire that is complemented greatly by the sounds of birds and a stray wallaby on a tin roof ^_)^
no. 95% ltv loans are BS. interest only mortgages are BS.
A starter home makes perfect sense. you buy what you can afford, pay money towards equity when you can, buy your furniture at walmart and garage sales, sleep on a futon or in a slung up hammock until you can buy a real bed. building a life. making it work.
_____________________
same with outdoor fireplace
When i was in New Zealand and Austalia I got a new found respect for the outdoor sitting room. Great conversations and surprisingly entertaining. i don't know if I entertain enough to justify it, but I have never felt better "hosted" before or since. belive me, hot or cold, wet or dry, there is something about a nice roaring fire that is complemented greatly by the sounds of birds and a stray wallaby on a tin roof ^_)^
- CrystalsSecondHome
- Contributions:88
I personally don't agree with the list.
- CrystalsSecondHome
- Contributions:88
I saw a model of a new home without a formal living room/formal dining room recently and I was like, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!
The rush to be 3rd world is not gonna fly -- unless the CEOs are willing to take a big cut in pay, that is. I know of few willing to give up the comfortsof living in a traditional home complete with a living room, dining room, bathroom, etc., just so the CEO gets a big bonus.
The rush to be 3rd world is not gonna fly -- unless the CEOs are willing to take a big cut in pay, that is. I know of few willing to give up the comfortsof living in a traditional home complete with a living room, dining room, bathroom, etc., just so the CEO gets a big bonus.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
Crystal, it's a big world out there, and the concept of an "open living foorplan" is not new.............yet it is still very popular with many people today.
Maybe (or clearly) it's not a popular concept with you, so the good news is, there are options.
However, builders wouldn't offer that open floorplan if consumers didn't want it!
The idea of having "formal", designated/specified rooms is no longer as popular.
The "living room" became the room to "walk through" to get to the family room for many people....and was used infrequently.
The "great room" became the trend (I am going back to the 80's even) in new construction.
People wanted a more relaxed, informal way of life, with an open, spacious feel.
Especially, with the advent of big screen tv's and entertainment centers, even more homeowners wanted a larger space to accommodate them.
Anyway.....as far a "what were they thinking"?
well......
They were thinking.....this is what is selling in today's market place!
Maybe (or clearly) it's not a popular concept with you, so the good news is, there are options.
However, builders wouldn't offer that open floorplan if consumers didn't want it!
The idea of having "formal", designated/specified rooms is no longer as popular.
The "living room" became the room to "walk through" to get to the family room for many people....and was used infrequently.
The "great room" became the trend (I am going back to the 80's even) in new construction.
People wanted a more relaxed, informal way of life, with an open, spacious feel.
Especially, with the advent of big screen tv's and entertainment centers, even more homeowners wanted a larger space to accommodate them.
Anyway.....as far a "what were they thinking"?
well......
They were thinking.....this is what is selling in today's market place!
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
ps
not to worry - the bathroom is usually not part of that "open" living design and concept!
not to worry - the bathroom is usually not part of that "open" living design and concept!
- CrystalsSecondHome
- Contributions:88
We shall see. Sure, the concept of an open floor plan has been around forever, but it doesn't mean give me a home without walls. It won't fly. Chalk it up to communication error.
Basically, you will continue to see massive flight to resales instead of new construction purchases until the non-listeners learn how to listen.
Basically, you will continue to see massive flight to resales instead of new construction purchases until the non-listeners learn how to listen.
- CrystalsSecondHome
- Contributions:88
@Caveat Rei Arcana -
I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
There are things that I wish that more builders considered as features like 10 foot ceilings, floor heat in the bathrooms and a main floor master.
I have never been a fan of vaulted ceiling. I like visiting them, but I do not like painting or heating that space. Many of the other features on that list never made it to mainstream subdivision homes, but were seen a lot in semi custom. I don't think I'd miss most of them.
I have never been a fan of vaulted ceiling. I like visiting them, but I do not like painting or heating that space. Many of the other features on that list never made it to mainstream subdivision homes, but were seen a lot in semi custom. I don't think I'd miss most of them.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
Seriously, Crystal - Listen to what???
Maybe I am missing something here.
Any "massive" flight to resales, truthfully, is more about cost than design.
New construction, overall, tends to be more costly than buying a resale.
Plenty of people who buy resales open up walls and create open spaces.
For those consumers, like you, who prefer a traditional floorplan, leave the walls where they are...or buy new construction with a traditional layout..there are still plenty of 4 Br center hall colonials being built!
I have no idea why you're so worked up about a style of home that many consumers like.
For those that want a more traditional feel - good news - that's out there, too.
You don't like it.?...........it doesn't work for you?
ok....easy.... don't buy it!
(I must say that, imo, comparing a home with an open floorplan to a "3rd world country" is a bit of a stretch unless they have granite topped center islands, cathedral ceilings and gas fireplaces)!
Maybe I am missing something here.
Any "massive" flight to resales, truthfully, is more about cost than design.
New construction, overall, tends to be more costly than buying a resale.
Plenty of people who buy resales open up walls and create open spaces.
For those consumers, like you, who prefer a traditional floorplan, leave the walls where they are...or buy new construction with a traditional layout..there are still plenty of 4 Br center hall colonials being built!
I have no idea why you're so worked up about a style of home that many consumers like.
For those that want a more traditional feel - good news - that's out there, too.
You don't like it.?...........it doesn't work for you?
ok....easy.... don't buy it!
(I must say that, imo, comparing a home with an open floorplan to a "3rd world country" is a bit of a stretch unless they have granite topped center islands, cathedral ceilings and gas fireplaces)!
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
ps
it is clear that style preferences and items considered desireable (or not) "upgrades" are, in part, a function of where one is located in the country.
it is clear that style preferences and items considered desireable (or not) "upgrades" are, in part, a function of where one is located in the country.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
It is very true that there are regional differences in preferences. In the area that I grew up in, having space for a garden or a few tomato plants was 100% optional.
In my new area, houses without that small outside sunny space or raised garden square sell much slower. It is interesting where those lines are drawn depending on the local pattern of living.
In my new area, houses without that small outside sunny space or raised garden square sell much slower. It is interesting where those lines are drawn depending on the local pattern of living.
I "love" 20 foot tall "picture windows" when they look out on a mountain view and lake. There are ways to deal with the heating, cooling, and ventilation issues with passive systems, if one is willing to put in the extra design and costs up front.
But if there is no such spectacular view, even 7'6" ceilings will works for many living spaces, as long as the rooms don't exceed 500 sqft, and one is not regularly entertaining more than a dozen people inside.
Personally, I prefer many separate rooms to keep the hundreds of hobbies separate, and to provide more intimacy and quiet when their are more people around.
I also prefer at least one room that can be fully darkened for surround movies, and for specialized photography functions.
And climate controlled storage is also extremely important to me. Open building space to me with those storage requirements implies "big box store", which I'm not fond of at all. I much rather have built in cabinets on the walls than having to anchor industrial shelving to the floors.
But if there is no such spectacular view, even 7'6" ceilings will works for many living spaces, as long as the rooms don't exceed 500 sqft, and one is not regularly entertaining more than a dozen people inside.
Personally, I prefer many separate rooms to keep the hundreds of hobbies separate, and to provide more intimacy and quiet when their are more people around.
I also prefer at least one room that can be fully darkened for surround movies, and for specialized photography functions.
And climate controlled storage is also extremely important to me. Open building space to me with those storage requirements implies "big box store", which I'm not fond of at all. I much rather have built in cabinets on the walls than having to anchor industrial shelving to the floors.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2733
it's funny you mentioned that Sunny.
I was watching HGTV last night, and a couple was looking to move to the Austin area.
The local agent explained to them that having a mini backyard "farm" was popular, so a large, sunny backyard was in demand (they saw one home that even came with it's own chicken coop!!).
ps "desirable" - not desireable!!!
I was watching HGTV last night, and a couple was looking to move to the Austin area.
The local agent explained to them that having a mini backyard "farm" was popular, so a large, sunny backyard was in demand (they saw one home that even came with it's own chicken coop!!).
ps "desirable" - not desireable!!!
Not so Interesting Article on "Kiss these 10 Home Features Goodbye
"Times are tough in the home-building industry, meaning the 500,000 or so new single-family homes expected to be built this year are going to include more practical and value-conscious features and fewer wish-list items."
Kiss these 10 home features goodbye
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