Profile picture for colcounty

Offer/Counter/CounterCounter/Reject

We've been searching for a home in the $325K-$400K price range in a market that the well priced ones sell within 60 days and the not so desired ones sit.  There is not a lot of inventory in this range in our area we are looking (dozen or so).  Anything in this range that was interesting to us, did not give us the the warm/fuzzy feel.  That was, until we bumped up our search criteria to $425k.  Then boom, something we like popped up and had only been on the market for a week. We looked, liked, but felt it was over priced and it was comparable to those in the lt $400k market.  We also feel based upon comps, it will not appraise based upon the local sales we have been watching.
We came in with an offer of $382.5k and asked for $3k in closing cost help.  They countered with $414k and agreed to the closing cost terms.  We countered with $387K and asked for $6k in closing costs.  They shut it down and said we were just too far apart to continue.  We know that they paid $362K for it 2-3 years ago based upon records.
Fast forward to today, the house is still on the market and coming up on 60 days.  another local comp offered at $385k went 'pending' in that time frame.  My question is if we should resubmit our last offer and see if they have second thoughts or just wait awhile?  We would be willing to come up some, and technically could pay them what they are asking, but really feel the home is not worth that price and not willing to overpay.  thoughts/

  • November 11 2013 - US
  • 0
    0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Be a Good Neighbor. Be respectful and on-topic. No spam or self-promotion! See our Good Neighbor Policy.

 
 

Answers (27)

Profile picture for colcounty
Yes, we are patient as well and watching for new inventory to come on the market.  We had seen the nearby 'comp' in its "Off the Market" status but did not think to inquire further or ask for a showing...Obviously someone was interested and made an offer that was accepted $10k under its previous listed price.

If we get in a situation that we find another comaparable we have an interest in making an offer, it is possible that we could also make another approach to the overpriced seller with that past offer.  Or is that again using too much logic?
  • February 10
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for wetdawgs
The problem is unfortunately that you are trying to use logic, and you've already seen that the sellers are using a different approach.   Your approach is quite sensible, but just because it is sensible doesn't mean it will be accepted by the seller.    As they aren't likely to change their approach, if you want the house then you will have to  be the one to dance.   Or, perhaps the two agents can see if they can get some change in stance from the seller. 

  • February 08
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
I disagree on the sellers position Wetdawgs...there has been very little inventory for several months now...and their home has not sold (150 days on the market)...indicative of?  Overpricing and lack of seller motivation.

Our agent believes the sellers are patient and waiting for that buyer that will pay a premium price.  Maybe that buyer will come along, maybe they won't.  If their patience wears thin,  the selling agent has not forgot about us and knows where we stand.  Which I still believe is in the appropriate and comparable price market...our agents CMA's indicate this as well.
  • February 08
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for wetdawgs
"very little inventory" puts the ball in the seller's court.   If you want it, offer what they'll take.  If not, drop it from your watch list.
  • February 08
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for sunnyview
"My question is if we should resubmit our last offer and see if they have second thoughts or just wait awhile?"

It sounds like your sellers may have some regret. That is a good time to resubmit your original offer that was rejected and give them another chance to change their mind or move closer on your offer.
  • February 08
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
Update...The home is still currently on the market.  We have not taken any action or made contact.  The listing agent did contact our agent to mention they had an "offer" fall through in the $395k range and wanted to know "how our home search was going?".  We did not respond. 

A neighboring property that was off the market and a very close comp sold recently at $364k.

There is very little inventory in our area right now.
  • February 08
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for blue screen exile
"Either that, or just accept no for an answer, and wait to see if the seller changes their mind 2 to 8 months from now." -

Let's see; it has been only 9 days since that was posted...  That means you have at least 52 days to wait; probably more like over 7 months...

And what do I mean by "wait and see"?  Certainly not "resubmit the offer".  That is NOT "waiting".  The seller needs to take the first steps to indicate they might reconsider, such as substantially drop in the listing price, or two or three drops in listing price.

Submitting too soon will only tell the seller that there still is interest at the present list price, so it would only raise the amount that you would have to offer to be successful at getting the offer accepted.
  • November 30 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for wetdawgs
"he indicates the home is getting quite a bit of activity"   Translation:  don't bother repeating your low ball offer at this time.
  • November 30 2013
  • 1Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for blue screen exile
If it is still getting quite a bit of activity, the seller is still not going to consider your offer, and you will just look desperate by re-submitting.

Besides, the listing agent knows how to find you if your prior offer is in the right ballpark.

Until the seller reduces the listing price, the seller is not willing to entertain lower offers, especially from someone that gave them a counter-counter offer that states "I'm not willing to negotiate", and "I can't afford your house", and "I'm going to give you substantial problems during escrow".  It doesn't matter if you think you are "substantially financially qualified buyers".  You "told" them you weren't when you asked for double the seller concessions from your original offer when you countered the counter.
  • November 30 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
So, my agent recently had some contact with the selling agent.  She indicates the home is getting quite a bit of activity and as of recently, had one potential buyer that was going to write an offer but backed out due to CC&R's.  We are aware of these CC&R's and some of the restrictions they impose and are fine with them as long as the price is right.

So, when a seller has a lot of showings, but no offers (besides our rejected 11% under list at 20 days on the market) what is that indicative of?

They are coming up on 75 days on the market without a price reduction.  Should we resubmit our last offer with the intention to maybe reconsider negotiations.

btw...We are very financially qualified buyers.
  • November 30 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for blue screen exile
"We don't know the seller, we don't know the buyer." -

Not to mention, we don't even know the State, or the County, or the City, or the Zip Code or the neighborhood of the property nor desired search area...  so we can't look up any data for any comparisons.  (If we did, we would be looking up the specific property referenced to do our own estimates, and to look up other AVM's to see how they compare...)

As a side note, doubling the requested seller concessions on a counter of a counter is a "red flag" that the buyer is stretched to their limit, and escrow might not close, thus a very good reason for a flat out rejection.

But even just normal negotiating etiquette states you don't just offer to move 0.5% on your position when the other side moved 2.5%... you need to be at least 80% of what the other side moved if you want to continue negotiations... so if you didn't offer to adjust at least 1.8%, you are stating "I'm really not interested in negotiating on this property".  If you can't move any more on the financial end, you have to offer something else to make it worthwhile, such as "no contingencies"...

Either that, or just accept no for an answer, and wait to see if the seller changes their mind 2 to 8 months from now.
  • November 21 2013
  • 1Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

-  we bumped up our search criteria to $425k.  Then boom, something we like popped up and had only been on the market for a week. We looked, liked, but felt it was over priced and it was comparable to those in the lt $400k market. 

Well, you could make your life a lot easier by pursuing one of those that are priced at $400K . . .

This is like offering dating advice. We don't know the seller, we don't know the buyer. All we know is that this house caught your attention even though it's comparable to houses priced less, to which I think - go after the lower priced house, because you might actually get it.

All the best,
  • November 21 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for blue screen exile
If I were to offer only 0.5% up on counter of counter when seller moved 2.5% down on counter on offer that was 9% low of asking... I would be telling the seller either:
1) I don't need to buy, I have time to wait it out, or buy something else.
2) I'm willing to wait 20 years to buy.
3) I can't afford your house, and if you accept my offer you can expect me to be a nuisance during the entire escrow process, and can expect me to haggle over every iota the inspector finds.
4) I'm not looking for a reasonable sales price, I'm looking for someone to give me over $40k "free" straight from their pocket.  After all, I deserve it, since I'm using the negotiating skills I read on a website once that don't even work at a swap-meet.

You ask why the listing agent is giving your agent a "cold shoulder" and not returning calls?  Simply because that was the "instructions" of their "client".  No reason for an agent to waste any time on a "non-buyer" that proved they are not qualified to buy anything.

Yes, it would be different if you waited 60 to 90 days, and there were still no offers on the house, and they had already did a couple mark-downs.  But we are no longer in a falling market and there is no reason to rush to sell.  The seller can wait it out just the same as any buyer.   With the anticipated inflation, maybe you can buy it 60 years from now for $7.7 million?

Why would anyone want to just give away a year's wages for absolutely no benefit?

You do know how list prices are set don't you?  And you do know the average selling price to listing price ratio is given on the "local info" pages, tab at the top of the page don't you?  And you do know that there is no set mark-up on any listing don't you?  That an "average" means there is a standard deviation of sold to list price ratio, and that some will be higher and some lower?

If none of the others in the under $400k range were of any interest, and didn't "pop" and didn't give you any good feelings, then there is a reason there is a price difference, and someone will pay the difference.  If you are not a licensed appraiser, and the seller doesn't like your offer, than it makes absolutely no difference what you think it is "worth", nor what any CMA that your agent gave you says it "might" be worth.
  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for Rebecca Marvel
How long do you wait ... well, as long as you feel comfortable waiting.  No one can give you an exact time to act -- just be prepared to lose the house either way.

I would send an offer right away to see where the seller is at.  You can always resubmit the offer at a later date.
  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
And if the you the seller did counter in the $392K, I would certainly be playing ball in that field.  The problem is that they started at $425k which is too high for the market in my opionion and appearances of the markets opinion.

We are willing to go to mid $390's tops as that is what we feel it is worth - tops.  I have a feeling the seller is padding their agent commision into the mix, which is not a agreeing with their net.

There will always be another house for us if this does not work out.  Likewise for the sellers, there may be another buyer.  Question is how long do they want to wait?  We can.
  • November 20 2013
  • 1Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for Rebecca Marvel
Again, what would you do if you were the seller -- you drop your asking price to $400k and a buyer comes along offering you $385k.  If it were ME I would counter in the middle at $392,500.

Again, the house may or may not appraise at the sales price no matter what that may be.

Waiting to see what happens could mean you miss out on this house... but it's only a house.
  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
I have basically followed the plan/advise that is being given to this posters question:

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Amount-on-offer-below-the-list-price/519557/

I am also more in agreement with the "Sisters" advice to just wait it out as something else could come on the market.  I do not need to move, or buy, I have my own home with a mortgage paid off.  We are just looking to 'upgrade' in a home.

Yes, I have put myself in the sellers position as I will eventually sell my house as well.  I watch what comparable homes go for in my homes lesser price range and see the same activity happen with sellers asking/hoping to get more. In my case, I would like to clear $300K.  I would probably go down to $290k but that would be bottom as that is probably underpricing.  I will probably ask/list closer to $320k for starters expecting some sort of negotiation.

So, here's my new question...Let's say this house sits more close to 90 days than the current 60.  No activity equates to a seller price drop closer to $400k (as I have seen other comp homes do).  Is my original offer of net mid $380k still that bad or worthy of being back on the table in the sellers eyes?

  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for Rebecca Marvel
I see no mention of "agents" in this question/post so pay no attention to the comment by mooneymuscle (who apparently is a realtor??)

mooneymuscle
  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for Rebecca Marvel
What if it were YOU selling the house?  What steps would you have taken in the counter offer?

The APPRAISER has the say in what the house is worth...  I've seen appraisals come in 30-40k lower than the agreed to price and when that happens the seller has a couple of options (and so do you) - cancel everything as the bank won't lend any amount over the appraised value; drop the sales price to match the appraised value or ask the buyer (you) to come in with the difference.

Agents involved or not - the issue remains appraised value vs listing price.
  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for knightlight
See the problem is both parties have an agent involved. Just think if it was just buyer and seller. At 414k with an agent is really 390k at a 6% listing agreement. The seller is looking at what they walk away with. Title fees and taxes still need to be paid. Try searching FSBO, you'll get your house.
  • November 20 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

If nothing has sold for over 400K that tells you something.  If another property you deem to be nicer than this one sold under 400K that should be your bench mark.

Your agent is the best one to guide you in that particular market.  I'd sit back and wait.  Something better could come on the market tomorrow.

If you re-submit your offer too quickly you look desperate and that weakens your position.
  • November 20 2013
  • 1Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for wetdawgs
You have a lot of logic why they should be selling under $400k, but they don't agree with you.   I'm sure they have their own logic.

While your original offer was ~90% of list price,  rules about "low ball", "insult" etc are not market wide.   Probably more important is your very poor counter.

As a seller, I would be a bit miffed if my counter offer was a 2.6% decrease and the buyer adjusted their offer by less than 0.5%.  That's not even trying.    Should the buyers come back, I'd realize they didn't really want to negotiate and therefore not bother responding or hold a hard line.

It appears the two of you are far apart, it is time to move on and don't waste your time with houses priced >. $400k.







  • November 19 2013
  • 1Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
I reached out to our agent on this particular house who was going to make contact with the listing agent.  It seems the agent is giving him the silent treatment and not returning the call or email.  So, does this mean we offended them with an offer of 9% under list?  I have read through out this board that even 10% under is usually not considered low ball offending.
  • November 19 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for colcounty
I do not know the  sellers motivation but have a feeling they were just "feeling the market with a higher price".  I would not consider 4 houses sold in the area over the past 6 months a strong market position either with a typical limited inventory.  That included what was considered an active July/August and now we are headed into the slower sales time of the year.  Those sold homes were equal in many aspects (with pluses/and minuses) and what I considered an appraiser will use as comps.  Nothing has sold in the area for over $395k in over a year and that $395k house had some desired features over this one that truly added bottom dollar value (more living sq footage, xtra bath, 36x48 shop, equal cond).  As far as upgrades, the only thing I could tell is they have sheetrocked the basement and added some nice design touches.

The sellers are represented by an agent who is based out of a nearby metro area and not the rural area we are in.  I am represented by an agent as well.

Other homes we have seen start out above $400k seem to go this same route with little to no activity until the price drop to that list level...then things start.  Case and point...We looked at a house last summer (the active time period for sales).  It had some pluses and minuses compared to this one.  It was listed at $419k and we again felt it was too much and did not offer.  After 45 days, they dropped the price to $399k and it sold 2 weeks later for $386k.  In that case, I knew the seller did not need a quick sale. That was the learning experience I was trying to see if that applied to this house we like. 

I am pondering the appraiser idea...do sellers usually allow this pre-offer?



  • November 12 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

If the inventory is low in that price range then the seller may be in a strong position.  What is the sellers motivation to sell?  If there is nothing pressing like a relocation or divorce they may just sit back until someone "needs" to buy.

What they paid two or three years ago does not necessarily mean anything.  What did they do to improve the house?  How much has the local market either increased or decreased?

You mention comps.  Who is assessing these comps for you?  Your real estate agent or you?  Is the seller represented by an agent or are they FSBO?

You went in initially with 379K net to the seller.  They lowered their price by 11K which I consider a good counter. You came back with a counter 2K net higher than your first offer. Of course they said you were too far apart and obviously not moving very quickly in the right direction. 

You need to look in the 325-400 range unless you are willing to go over 400K.  The seller might settle for 400K net and you'd have to roll your closing cost on top.  If it does not appraise you should be able to walk away if you use an appraisal addendum.
  • November 12 2013
  • 1Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

Profile picture for Tony Ngai
Sounds like you are in a pretty good position without much competition.  However, your agent should be able to help you with this.  The best way is to pay for an appraiser to give you the actual value.  This can be done in a day or two depending on where you are located, and how busy their schedules are.  So far, all my sales this year have either came in at offering price (above listing), or above.  Each house is unique, so the comps should be use as a "starting reference" point and not as a reflection of its worth.  No two houses are exactly the same.  Best of luck.
  • November 11 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.

You can offer them what you think the house is worth and be ready to negotiate. You can get the home appraised and offer then the appraised value. You can also consult with a local real estate professional who is an expert in that market for advice on price.  In the end, you may find that you need to come up in price if you really want that house. Best of luck, I hope you get it.
  • November 11 2013
  • 0Yes

  • Report a Problem

    Please enter a valid email address.

    Content flagged

    We will review this content. Thanks for helping make the site more useful to everyone. To learn more, read Zillow's Good Neighbor Policy.

    We're sorry. This service is temporarily unavailable. Please come back later and try again.