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Questions and NO answers from Zillow!!

Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"
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Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"

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1. When will the illegal wire tapping achieve legal status?
2. Where is the Zillow Privacy Policy regarding these recorded conversations?
3. Who at Zillow owns, archives and controls these private conversations?
4. Where is the new lender user agreement agreeing to ZMM changes?
5. When will Realtors be charged for contacts received on current Zillow listings?
6. Can a confirmed lender profile have a YouTube video as other Zillow users have?
7. Can a confirmed lender provide hyperlinks on a profile page?
8. Can I be a confirmed lender with my own contact information? One whom does not wish to participate in the new ZMM.
9. Since the new pay per contact stage is still free this month, why not show us what the lead will costs us next month? I think we all want to see a $100 GFE request.

Per Law: Lenders are required to maintain privacy policy agreements with all service providers. Please help us maintain a healthy relationship with Zillow.

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November 05 - Falls of Neuse

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Rudi Hofmann, "CA UMB"
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David,

Zillow is calling it a "Customer Contact Fee." I feel I would be hard-pressed to differentiate that terminology from a "Referral Fee" if CA DRE would challange me that it's a "Referral Fee RESPA Violation."

If your Business License indicated you where a business selling leads there would not be this conflict. This is allowed.

Zillow has nothing to lose on this matter. Only those Originating Loans could face the possibility of fines, suspension of licence or loss of license.

No "Customer Contact" is even worth $1.00 when one is faced with those consequences.

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November 09

Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"
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Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"

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Robo-Quoting Memo

Here it is Mr.Sutherland

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November 09

Bert Billings
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It is my understanding that it is illegal to record a phone conversation without providing the option to opt out. Ultimately, I guess the class action lawyers will decide on Zillow's new policy. Again, simply charging for quotes would make life so much more simple and without the assured legal challenges.

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November 09

Timothy Sutherland, "SunTrust"
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Timothy Sutherland, "SunTrust"

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Maybe Zillow is still busy fixing the Robo-Quoter for BIG BANKS.

I must not have received that memo.

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November 08

NTETS ZDGS 2007, "Caveat Emptor"
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NTETS ZDGS 2007, "Caveat Emptor"

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by inhibition, i meant trepidation, or fear regarding the security of their sensitive information... more importantly though, it creates a liability for zillow.

0.02

also i agree, provide the link wayne

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November 08

Joe Cafiero, "jcaf1918"
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Joe Cafiero, "jcaf1918"

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David,

I was reading that thread on that tech site and something dawned on me that I would like you to clarify. You continue to say that we the lenders are going to set the price for these contacts as they "Market Priced". Is it too simple to say that if no lender is willing to pay more than say $10 per contact, then no contact price would be over $10.

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November 07

NTETS ZDGS 2007, "Caveat Emptor"
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if there was no demand at the 100 level then the 100 level would not exist.

if there are certain quotes that have a high demand, they will get more expensive...

also bert, i have 2 words for you, manual quoting. your conversion ratio should skyrocket.

at david, i'm not a constitutional lawyer, but someone using your site to create and send e-mails and someone using a provided 800 number on your site is NOT the same thing. therefore archiving digital documents and archiving phonecalls are different. in almost every state both parties have to be put on notice that the phone calls are being archived(thats it). that information though, will probably cause a strong inhibition about the service. i dont want my name, social and vitals recorded in one place on anyone's database. i think most of your lenders understand that concern.

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November 07

Wayne Brown, "SDMortgagefinder.com"
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DavidG

Honestly, the Red Flags Rule is pages upon pages to read.

I am responding by conversations that I have had with my paid compliance consultant that I use in my mortgage business to ensure that I am in compliance.

She is indicating to me that my participation of recorded calls alone is in violation of Red Flag Rules. Any third party Vendor so to speak is covered by this since we could and most certainly would be discussing sensitive information. Zillow is a party to this since you are recording calls even if you indicate that to all parties prior to the call being recorded.

Red Flag also means that with Zillow being involved that you must have a written plan in effect to protect client information from getting into the wrong hands from internal and external sources. Additionally, by writing you must outline various steps that you are taking to ensure protection of information in addition to steps to be taken if certain scenarios happen within your company. Zillow has to identify and provide corrective action plans or checkponts to ensure compliance.

Lenders dealing with you Can require you to provide a copy of your plan to ensure that you are in compliance.

Again, I am no attorney. Thats why I hire outside compliance counsel.

You really should check further into it. I could go on for quite a bit here on this, but I do know that your time is important too.

I am just trying to emphasize to you why mine or any other lender participation would be in violation the way the Red Flag Rules were written. We are then subject to major fines and potential loss of license.

Good Luck.

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November 07

David Gibbons, "DavidG"
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Rudi -

4) You accept Zillow's terms of use (which are changeable by Zillow) whenever you quote. It is your responsibility to read the TOU but I hope you'll agree that we've also put a lot of effort into repeatedly communicating these changes. I hope you've been receiving our emails in this regard - it's also why I sit here typing to you on a Saturday morning ;-)

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November 07

David Gibbons, "DavidG"
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Rudi -

I'll try to answer your Q's:

1) What licensing exactly is it that you're referring to here?
2) Zillow is not charging a referral fee.
3) Recording callsis not illegal. All participants are informed that calls are being recorded.

Yes, you don't have to participate in ZMM to be a "lender" on Zillow. Confirmed Lenders are ZMM participants.

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November 07

Rudi Hofmann, "CA UMB"
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Dave,

One more item that I forgot to mention.

1. Will Zillow allow those that are currently a "Confirmed Lender" to change that "Branding" to just a Lender Status? Or, how about "Confirmed Mortgage Advisor?"

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November 07

Rudi Hofmann, "CA UMB"
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Dave,

I feel those that wish to quote their pricing concerns will be resolved in December as you have mentioned.

As I previously mentioned. If I was quoting my concerns would be the legal issues.

1. Zillow not being an Licensed Lead Provider.

2. Charging an Illegal Referal Fee (Customer Contact Fee)

3. Participating in an Illegal Conversation Recording.

(All of those that participated in the above are subject to fines, probation and/or a Revoked DRE Licence.)

4. Changing your Lender Agreement without New Lender Authorization.

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November 07

David Gibbons, "DavidG"
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Bert -

No-one is saying that they would. You guys set the maximum price we get paid per contact. In December, when the pricing engine turns on, we'll find out what that is.

Wayne -

I understand that you consider this an urgent matter but your bold and underlined dire predictions are not particularly helping me understand what it is. Do you have any facts or can you cite any part of the regulation that you are particularly concerned about that I might address those for you. If we've missed something we'd love to know about it.

Joe -

I apologize that you don't have the visibility you'd like to the pricing of individual contacts today but please consider that funding your account is no risk regardless of that fact because:
a) You cannot be overcharged. Since you set the maximum you're prepared to pay for a contact, you will never pay more than you want to.
b) The unspent portion of your account can be refunded to you at any time.

You don't have to fund your account before pricing goes live but the added incentive to being an early bird is that we're giving a 25% discount on month 1.

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November 07

Bert Billings
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Would anyone pay $100 for any customer contact even with a no cash out, 50% LTV, 800 FICO, and salaried income?

It is only worth it if closed. 100% of these people are shoppers and will easily get 10 quotes+.

Therefore, I assert that at best you will get only one out of 10 of this type of borrower so it means you will pay $1000 (100x10) to close a loan and you cannot be competitive on that basis.

Zillow needs money. Why not simply $.25 per quote? This will slow down the people producing 7+ quotes per borrower?

4000 quotes per month x $.25 =$1000 in fees to Zillow. And, this only works if you get 3-4 closings per 4000. 3-4 closings might not be realistic.

I know of one person, who is very competitive, getting one application per 4000 quotes. I know another that is getting only one application per 7000 quotes.

And, an application is not a funding.

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November 07

Wayne Brown, "SDMortgagefinder.com"
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David G

Again, I do not mean any disrespect. But, you just don't Get It.

Zillow is in Violation of the " Red Flags " Rule.

I have spoken to More than One Compliance Expert. The FTC could Shut You Down and Fine You Up the n.z,znxn/z,nz/,xmvn/zxm,vx,mn/vnzx.

You Need to Get this to Legal.

I am not talking Hot Air Here.

As Lenders, we are in Violation of Red Flag Rules. Get that Through Your Head, Sun Glasses, or Whatever You are Wearing!

This is for Zillow's Benefit, not Mine.

I am Looking after your allfajlskjfklasjf'lsjfja'lslkjjasklsakl.

Do What You May..............but eventually the FTC will be Breathing Down Your Neck !!!!!

Trust Me !!!!!

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November 06

Joe Cafiero, "jcaf1918"
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David;

I think a lot of the frustration lies in the fact that really nothing has changed since you originally laid out these changes last month. I think everyone was under the impression that while we were not going to be charged we would at least get an idea of what it was going to cost. Now we are expected to fund an account without having any idea what a contact is going to run.

I still would like to hear how you are going to discern a person contacting me by phone based on my profile (which is not supposed to cost anything) and someone who is calling about a quote.

Also please stop mentioning all the products you are SELLING realtors. Big difference in that and charging for basic contacts.

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November 06

David Gibbons, "DavidG"
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Wayne -

Right; I am certainly not a lender. No offense taken for that.

I understand that the red flag rules require that lenders report any potential compromise to their clients' privacy. It sounds like sensible legislation and I applaud any initiative that will help clean up this industry. There's nothing however in the red flag rulings that precludes your use of Zillow.

In this regard, ZMM is a communication mechanism between borrowers and lenders and like most of the digital communication mechanisms you use, digital archives are created along the way. You obviously need to do due diligence of the tools you use but your approach to ZMM should be no different than your due diligence in selecting an ISP, email service provider, pricing engine etc. w.r.t. ZMM, you will find the information you need regarding Zillow's archival and use of private information detailed in our Privacy policy; if you think anything in there violates the red flag rules, please let me know.

As an aside, you should note that e-mail communications between borrowers and lenders have been archived by Zillow since the site launched - you've actually been trusting us to do this for the last 18 months so nothing really changes with the introduction of the archival of phone contacts.

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November 06

Wayne Brown, "SDMortgagefinder.com"
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DavidG

With all due respect, you are not a lender extending finance. One apparent error that Zillow has made involves the new " Red Flag " Rules which went effective November 1st of this year.

Any lender participating in your mortgage rollout according to my compliance sources will be in clear violation of these rules. Even non-financial companies are covered by this ruling......meaning Zillow since you take third party information and collect fees from credit cards.

Fines are extremely steep, and license revocation is possible......at least for us lenders.

This is not a personal issue against Zillow.

It is a Compliance Issue for us lenders who fall under jurisdiction, and appears to apply to Zillow as well.

Now you can tell us just not to participate, but Zillow itself appears to be in clear violation with its new system, especially the recording of third party calls between lender and client.

While I an certainly not an attorney, my paid consultant indicates to me that for compliance purposes that I should run as fast as I can to not be involved for fear of FTC violation enforcement.

I think at least your legal department needs to review and address this situation further.

Best Regards

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November 06

David Gibbons, "DavidG"
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Chip -

1) If you are not joking, please clarify this question.
2) Zillow has one Privacy policy that governs all private information communicated via the site. You will find it here.
3) For call recording, Zillow has sourced a 3rd party solution commonly used for this application. Archival of email communications happens within Zillow's databases (as it has been since ZMM launched 18 months ago.)
4) Zillow's terms of use (for all users) are here.
5) Zillow has sold products to agents and brokers for a while now. Please tell the agents you work with about it!
6) Yes. Please note however that the content of your profile video should obviously comply with the new policy for contact details on profiles.
7) If you read the new policy that was sent to lenders it's clear on this; "Contact information includes phone number, e-mail address, or any Web site addresses or links."
8) No, confirmed lender status on Zillow applies to ZMM participants only.
9) I empathize with this request but there are two good reasons we couldn't make it happen. First, setting all contacts to $0 was the only feasible technical solution to give lenders this preview. Secondly, any pricing we could show you now could be more confusing than useful; pricing will change once we launch based on lender demand for contacts. The good news is you will be in complete control of the maximum amount you could be charged for a given contact; you will never pay more than you want to for a contact from a Zillow borrower.

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November 06

Wayne Brown, "SDMortgagefinder.com"
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It's pretty obvious that Zillow must be scrambling with all the bugs in their new system.

Very surprised that they have not at least come out with some kind of announcement update regarding the rollout of the new system.

I expect David G to come in soon with a new picture of himself as the
" Terminator" Lol. Just kinding Dave!

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November 06

Rudi Hofmann, "CA UMB"
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I don't think they can let this linger. Maybe today?

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November 06

Wayne Brown, "SDMortgagefinder.com"
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I just wondering when the FTC is going to weigh in on Zillow aloong with how many other agencies?

Amazing.

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November 06

shapiroamg
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shapiroamg

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What to work on first? The spam that came in over night or the security and privacy issues. Everyone on the east coast is waiting with baited breath...

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November 06

NTETS ZDGS 2007, "Caveat Emptor"
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golf clap for chip... total bumpage

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November 06

Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"
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Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"

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Bump-ade-bump over all the late night spam

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November 06

Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"
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Chip Streater, "TarheelChip"

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They've been duckin' and dodgin' these important questions all day. It would be nice if they took my questions and answered them in military fashion: By the numbers.

Add #10, #11,#12,#13. How long will a confirmed lender have the exact same toll free number? Does a confirmed lender have any rights to the toll free number? Does a conversation have a time limit? Will conversations ever be reproduced without prior written consent from all parties? I don't want to be the star of some future Super Bowl audio/video ad without consent and compensation.

All of this should be explained with a new user agreement. The conditions we are being asked to perform under have changed, but my user agreement hasn't changed.

Maybe Zillow is still busy fixing the Robo-Quoter for BIG BANKS.

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November 05

Tammy Stockdale, "Colorado Mtg Broker"
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Chip,

That's way to many questions at once for Zillow to swallow. I say give it a few days and the MAYBE you'll get answers.

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November 05

shapiroamg
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shapiroamg

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shoot. its only 630 there.

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November 05

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