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How do you guys feel about forwarding on daily rate sheets with hits to someone within zillow.

 

It wont take long before they get a grip on whats realistic to quote daily, and guys cant fake their sheets to defend their lowball quotes.

 

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September 02 2008 - US
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works for me

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September 02 2008

As well as the regulars, lets see what David G and Nida have to say about this.......

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September 02 2008

I don't think it should be the standard - some of us may have a niche lender, etc, which is how we get lower rates within certain areas.

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September 02 2008

Kat, that may be true...  but if you send your best lender's rate sheets and someone is still quoting a .25 below then that should raise a red flag.

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September 02 2008

Kat.

 

This was the issue I was hoping would come up. The blatent double standard.

 

We form an opinion regarding impossible quotes based off information. We dont just dream it up. We go to our lenders and price it out and find the quote is impossible.

 

We then flag it, asking the lender to prove they can do the loan as suggested.

 

But if Zillow asked us why we dont think they can , we tell em our lenders cant. If asked to show they cant, we say .........no way  ??????????

 

We point the finger at the other guy and say 'you cant do that, trust us' .

 

If we are going to suggest someone cant do a loan, then we cant hide our ratesheets proving we cant do the loan. Just like the lowballer cant hide his 'magic lender' who he is claiming can do the loan.

 

 

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September 02 2008

Tom,

My company would never go for it.  On the rate sheets it says not to be distributed to anyone outside the intended party: Lender or Broker.  Somehow, I think most of us would feel too ansty sending such information especially on a daily basis.

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September 02 2008

Nida and I do already receive rate sheet updates a few times a week but more are always welcome - click on our profile to let us know if you'd like to send us rates on a regular basis.

 

To Kat's point though, rate sheets are seldom a definitive way to identify impossible quotes. Honestly, in almost all cases, rates that were flagged as being (just a bit) better than the current rates are typically the result of a short-term special that the lender is running. It doesn't seem to be common scammer behavior to quote a "slightly better" rate.

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September 02 2008

Tom, I am not interested in doing that. I do most of my pricing via pricing engine, I do not get daily rates emailed or faxed to me.  I'm more than happy to supply what I can if I am flagged, otherwise, I won't do it.

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September 02 2008

Greg.

 

Point taken.

 

David.

 

I am all for it. Is there anyway for Zillow to approach the major lenders with disclaimers about not lending yourselves and for purposes to govern the quotes?

 

Perhaps most lenders will jump on board and sent you the rate sheets daily. I think we can provide the niche lenders and you can contact them yourselves.

 

The most damaging quotes are the lowballed ones where its basically free or at a slight loss.

 

Not the 5.5 % fixed no closing costs.

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September 02 2008

David,

 

There is a big difference between me quoting 6.375 and some else quoting 6.25 or even 6.125 on a short term lock

 

When I am quoting 6.375% or 6.250 and the someone quotes 5.875% no fees no points, THAT I have a huge problem with.

 

DP

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September 02 2008

Be careful folks...Greg is correct, take a look at the fine print and at your lender agreements.  I'm pretty sure they hold those ratesheets as proprietary.  You can certainly argue with them if Zillow asks you to produce them for purposes of staying active, but simply forwarding them will undoubtedly not be viewed favorably. 

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September 02 2008

John.

 

I have taken the point from Greg.

 

To get around that, Zillow should contact the major lenders we use and ask to get the rate sheets so they can govern the site.

 

 

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September 02 2008

Zillow isn't going to contact the major lenders.  The lenders, unless promised free advertising, will not respond.

If David or Nida want to see my rate, I will just link them to a pricing engine at that time.  If it is a ratesheet, I suppose I can e-mail but I just can't send them that daily becaue of what I indicated and John backed me on.  Ratesheets are not for the general public and Zillow, unless the lender allows, should not be looking at them either.

So, any help on this, David?

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September 02 2008

Unless Zillow has a license to lend, I think that we are treading on dangerous ground. How much analysis does Zillow do with ratesheets before it is considered offering loan advice?

In my mind, time and effort would be better spent tightly regulating:

A) new lenders on the site

B) known offenders and their various incarnations

C) improving the community moderation and flagging systems.

 

Otherwise we are simply spinning our wheels fighting the symptoms, not the root cause. This is a bad trend in my opinion.

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September 02 2008

suggestion for a  basic base line rate  to be used for determining  bogus quotes ......use a daily  survey service  that  summarizes many lenders wholesales rates daily in a basic , simple , easy to use fashion....one that  we have access to and have used for soem time is ICON Advisory Groups ...I am sure there must be many similar ones out there

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September 02 2008

Ok guys.

 

Then how does zillow FORCE lenders to PROVE their rates. You all have just INVALIDATED Zillows point to a flag system .

 

They aint allowed to send Zillow the RATE SHEETS TO PROVE IT.  So you can never PROVE the quote is lowballed.

 

You just gave lowballers a bonifide EXUSE to why they cant prove their quotes.

 

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September 02 2008

They can request the sheet if the rate is challenged.  The larger question would be even if they get daily sheets who says they would be able to properly apply the adjustments.  Its been painfully obvious that ALOT of actual LOs here don't know how to read adjustments hasn't it?  So how could we expect some website engineers to decifer them?

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September 02 2008

OK, screw it, let's give the Zillow mods current daily rate sheets. Let's have them analyze different programs, guidelines and pricing adjustments. They will then delete qoutes(offering loan advice) and evaluate loan qoutes (facilitating the loan process).

Do you see where this is going? DO you? This, under the law, makes Zillow a lender! If they are doing this, why not have these mods hang a broker's license and start qouting among us...after all, their word is better than ours now.

I hear what you are saying Tom but at what cost will we accomplish this. If you get exactly what you want this will turn into LendingTree or lowermybills.

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September 02 2008

I just cant believe we want to seperate playing fields.

 

Offenders who get flagged must cough up the rate sheets to prove they can do their 5.5 % fixed.

 

But we are consitutionally DISALLOWED from doing the exact same thing.

 

Furthermore, Getting Zillow to request the rate sheets is the lenders call. They can provide them to Zillow under the terms that they do not lend or hand em out to the public.

 

On top of all this GVD is being REQUIRED to cough up evidence that his quote is good, but you have all stated for the record its illegal for him to do so.

 

I dont think I can handle this thread  much longer.

 

David G and Nida

 

please delete this thread before lowballers figure out they have a built in exuse not to prove their quotes anymore.

 

 

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September 02 2008

Look-

 

Zillow asking a lender for his ratesheet is fine- that is an agreement between zillow and the lender in question, to prove how HE calculated HIS qoute, in accordance with their own license and practice. Nothing wrong with that and fine. And by the way, I also had to cough up a ratesheet in relation with one of my [flagged] qoutes, so I'm not talking out of my ass, OK?

 

Zillow having a ratesheet "bank" (as you envision) to evaluate everyone's qoutes as the sole basis, is a horrible idea.

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September 02 2008

based on WHAT?

 

Now its ok to cough up rate sheets? But then its not ok?

 

Then its not ok for zillow to get them from the lenders themselves? Its not the lenders call?

 

I can tell you that point blank, any lender on here can now claim they are strictly prohibited from passing the rates sheets onto a 3rd party as a way to not have to prove their quote.

 

You cant have it 15 different ways.

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September 02 2008

You are not reading me correctly.

You are heavily invested in this idea which you see as the only way to fight lowballers on Zillow.

I have said in my above post that Zillow has the authority to request to see how a Lender has arrived at his pricing, and this is well within ethics and the law.

But Zillow having a bunch of rate sheets sent to them, and making fiat decisions based on that, are you really going to sit here and tell me that that is a good idea?

Seriously bro, which is worse, the sickness or the cure?

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September 02 2008

Cue Paul to chime in with some The Cure lyrics:

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September 02 2008

And honestly, where does this sense of entitlement come from that Zillow must provide a perfectly level playing field for all competition? Every single lead i buy from lending tree (and I pay $20 up front for EACH and $1500 or MORE on the back end) has lowballers, bull$$$$ers and bait-n-switchers on every single lead. These leads are free, and yet there is this unrealistic expectation for Zillow to provide the same caliber of service and moderation paid lead services have. I just don't understand it.

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September 02 2008

How do you like LendingTree?  We've looked into it but seems overly expensive with not much in the way of guarantee.  Assuming you like it?

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September 02 2008

It is an unfortunately neccessary evil. All your ops and loan officers have to be trained to a high degree. It is supercompetitive and the margins on those deals are sometimes thinner than on here, but the volume is still halfway decent. Just requires a large investment in time- I'm weaning myself off for biz from Zillow, realtors, referrals, etc. If you are going to buy leads from any internet source, Lendingtree is the one you want though.

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September 02 2008
Profile picture for Wayne.T_ .....Colo.

Aaron, I have to agree with you on the entitlement factor. That is why I posted a Zillow Bank spoof link a while back.  Seems we (collectively) want to have a utopia site or a protected territory, etc.   Not in the customer best interest even if it took the low-ball quotes and bait-n-switch out of the picture.  Might as well close the broker doors and make it a bankers' only site.

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September 02 2008

That is exactly what I am saying. At what cost do we pursue this course of action. The underlying problem of course is these discussion pits us commission-driven, results-oriented salespeople against "a bunch of website engineers" as colorado lender put it.  It is very hard for Zillow to reconcile our goals with their goals for the site, and since this whole concept is still very new and relatively open to input, I see terrifying potential for it to be ruined right quick.

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September 02 2008

Nic,

We stopped using Lending Tree about a year or so ago, it just became cost prohibitive for us when they started collecting deposits from current lenders, because of others folding. They wanted 75k from us I believe...

That said

The pro's;

Customer have a little more vested interest in obtaining a loan as they do provide ssn's.

For internet leads you will not find one with a higher conversion ratio then LT...our best LO's averaged between 13 and 17% ratio's and the average were between 7 and 10

Con's;



The cost...upfront the leads aren't bad, but the back end fee's are sky high. Anywhere between 900 and 1500 when the loan funds.

They encourage bait and switching (upselling is the term they prefer) in an underhanded kind of way.

They sell each lead to 5 companies not 4, and if they happen to click on whatever sends the lead to getsmart the customers get calls from many more then just 5 companies which tends to irritate people a little.

LT cherry picks leads to send to LT Loans and they get an exclusive on it. They just price it out at 4 different investors and say 4 banks competed for their business.



My view of the company is fairly negative I'll admit, as I see them as cash w@#$^s...all they really care about is the money and some of their business practices reflect that. Although they are overall a good internet lead source

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September 02 2008

Whats the upfront cost GC?

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September 02 2008
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