Realtor Liability

What is the meaning of c/o?

I don't think any court of law will require the Realtor to install 2 additional bedrooms and a bath.  If that is what you mean.

What could you mean by "liable"?

At the bottom of every listing sheet there is a disclaimer...but when you looked at the house and found it only had 1 bedroom, 1 bath and wrote an offer how could any Realtor be liable???  That is bordering on ridiculous...actually is ridiculous.  I suspect it was a typo not an intent to defraud.  Where a Realtor could be liable, this is stretching it, is if an out of town investor HIRED an agent to represent him, signed a BUYER BROKER"S CONTRACT-- and wrote an offer based on the Realtor's recommendation.  This is assuming the Realtor provided a printout to the buyer, and never informed the buyer that the information on the printout was wrong.  A Buyer's Agent under contract has far more liability than a Buyer's Agent via agency disclosure or a dual agent.

I think it means certificate of occupancy...which typically applies to income properties.  For residential a c/o is required for newbuilds usually...unless the structure was condemned then rehabbed!!

you might have a claim with the ethics board if they are misrepresenting things via the MLS... you could possibly get them kicked out of MLS if they are frequently employing such tactics. you would be vindicated, but no they are liable for your reviewing a property you wouldnt have but upon inspection it should be obvious that you are missing 2 beds 1 bath... probably it is unpermitted which is why your records are wrong. not the realtor

There isn't enough information here to draw a conclusion.  If the agent walked through the house and counted 3 bedrooms and 2 baths I don't see any misrepresentation.

certificat of occupancy. It physically has 3 beds 2 baths. Th c/o ststes only 1 bed 1 bath. This means the other beds bath are not done under permit. It leaglly is not a 3 bed 2 bath as listed.

Sounds like a "Seller's Disclosure" issue.  A Realtor is responsible to do a visual inspection after said disclosure, however, if it were not disclosed to him/her that beds and baths were done without proper permits, that isn't necessarily something that he/she should be expected to know.

So, what the heck is the Realtor for? Opening doors  and pointing out the obvious?

Yup, that's all we do.  But like Jarrod said a while back, "I serve corndogs at my office...so there's that".

Why would you care what the C/O said?

Probably because the home is "non conforming".  May I begin to tell you the problems that can arise from that.

1.  If the home has a septic system, was it upgraded to be able to handle the extra amount of water?

2.  If the home is non conforming use, and God forbid there was a fire, it will be much more difficult to replace than if it was conforming.

3.  Proper permits were not taken on the house, therefore, there may be some safety issues.  Do you want your children in a potentially hazerdous situation such as this?

Non-conforming issues are certainly of concern, especially when they relate to health and safety issues. But they have little to do with a C/O. A C/O is typically issued by the city or county that has jurasdiction over the building code enforcement. Are given to owners at the time the construction of a building is completed. So you won't have a C/O issued for a bath remodel, etc... All the C/O represents is that all work was done to the building code standards, and in line with the scope for the individual permit/trade. The governing body, whether city or county can not stop an owner from occupying a building with out a C/O. So, the idea that an agent/Realtor would be liable as "burst"  has questioned above for a different building configuration is weak, at best. And if a buyer was informed that there was sufficient evidence that the building was non-conforming, it's time to walk away.....No?

Did you even buy the home?  The reason I'm asking is that during the buying process, things like this should be looked into.  Does the home have a septic???  If the home is non-conforming use, then why would you buy it.  Have you been to the county to do research on the home?  If you're that worried about safety precautions why are you even considering this home?  Am I missing something?

Ossingers, every municipality is different in the way they issue C.O.'s.  In my town, you need a C.O. with every change of occupancy.  They check to see what permits were taken out, and if they were closed.  If the home permitted use was 1 bedroom, any change in that would not show up with permits, therefore a C.O. would not be issued.  And yes, they can stop a person from moving in without a C.O. in my town.  So this is why the OP cares about this, because they must have had a C.O. inspection, or checked out the C.O. that the previous owner had.

Note that it IS different in every town.  1 town over from mine doesn't require a new C.O. with every change of occupancy.  They only require a fire safety inspection.  But that is really neither here nor there, because we both agree that health and safety issues are important, therefore, a 3 bedroom home that is only existing in the town as a 1 bedroom is a non conforming home, and needs to be addressed.

Yes, I am in the process of going under contract. Why does the C/O matter? Well because it's a 2500 dollar violation if the buildings dept finds out. It will cost me close to 5k for it to be brought up to code. This is NYC so things are expensive and codes are really really tough. I am just asking for a 5k reduction in order to compensate for bringing it up to code. I think thats fair, right?

BTW, I love some of  the Realtors response on here. Classic. What does it matter to me? Ridiculous. Uhhh.... Im laying out half a million dollars. Thats why, I just might want it to be leagally constructed.

Sure, if you like the property, can remedy the "problem" to suit your needs, and plan to indeed correct the errors, then some form of negotiation for compensation to you is a suitable solution.

Bubble, ask for more than 5K, and if not, than make them bring it up to code.  Estimating like that can get you into trouble.

Sh!t, in this market, ask for 10K.

Bubble, Ok, so I understand that other cities, counties, etc. use the C/O as a means of creating a paper trail for alterations and that as a prospective buyer, you would want the C/O to reflect that actual building, got it. I guess my hope, and the reason for my previous comments are that you have had this house/building inspected, independent of the C/O?? Certainly would make sense to have first hand knowledge of what it is you are buying, as it relates to your investment and the decrepencies found in the C/O?

A house was listed here that stated it was a 'legal 9-unit'. Turned out it was only a legal 6-unit property. I don't know if the agent saw the additional three units in the attic or not, and assumed that plywood walls that don't reach the ceiling are OK, or if they didn't actually go in the building at all and just took the owners word for it... ??????? C/O's are very important in CT as well, and bubble, I agree wholeheartedly- this IS a big deal, and there is a possibility that the agent either misreprsented or quite simply didn't do their job. Kick their butt into gear!

Bubble,  it really depends on where the Realtor is selling.  New York and New Jersey are much different than other areas.

For example, where I live there's no government intervention or approval like a new certificate of occupancy or fire inspection by governmental people prior to a property sale.

That's not to say that all buildings are renovations are built to code.  They aren't.  Buyer beware!

Yes, NY is much stricter. which is a good thing. I planned on doing extensive renovation anyways so I didnt ask for more. I prob would have got more but I think the 5k reduction is fair. The owner was looking to dump it quick since it was left to her as an inheritance and is in need of major major repairs. It is on an awesome block, the price was right and I had the dough. Win, win for all involved. FYI, if anyone thiks I am chaning my name now that I am homeowner think again. This market is ready for some more declines over the next couple of years. For me though I was able to get into a nice house for little more than I pay in rent now considering tax benefits. I plan to live there for 30 years or so.  

BB, the fact that the extra rooms were done without permit is something you should be angry with the seller about... and something that you should take up with them PRIOR to closing (you'll have zero leverage afterward)...and yes, asking for a $5,000 reduction to pay for the fines is reasonable, assuming that your inspection showed that the work was done adequately.

But I don't see how you're holding the Realtor responsible... they published 3br/2ba based on what the seller told them, and what they saw (just like you) when they walked through the unit.  It's not the Realtor's responsibility to make certain that the seller has permits to show every repair they made at the property.

Also interesting to see a "Bubbler".. purchasing in this market.

Good luck with everything Bubble.  Hopefully you've gotten a price with a good enough cushion to pad the upcoming price drops.  Obviously you made an informed decision (wouldn't expect anything less).  May I ask which neighborhood?

Westerleigh, near the park. Already had an engineer in there and consulted with an architecht. I agree I prob could have gotten more. But with prior experiences with irrational sellers you never know what they will agree to. I came in with what I though was fair. Hoping to be treated fairly in return. As for Realtors, well I am glad we are under contract and the lawyers handle everything from here. We didnt have a Realtor. Called the Sellers agent directly. Which worked out well since he wanted us to get the place over other bidders (if there even were other bidderss) so he could get full comm. Realtors are always on here praising their training and knowledge while comparing themselves to Doctors and Dentisits and Lawyers. But I have yet to see any evidence making those comparisons rationale. I found out more online in 5 minutes re this house than the Realtor ever knew. Or let on that he knew. I'll give him the benfit of the doubt though and will say he was the best of what we have seen out there.

Realtors are always on here praising their training and knowledge while comparing themselves to Doctors and Dentisits and Lawyers. But I have yet to see any evidence making those comparisons rationale. I found out more online in 5 minutes re this house than the Realtor ever knew. Or let on that he knew. I'll give him the benfit of the doubt though and will say he was the best of what we have seen out there.

That Realtor worked for the seller.... not for you... so you shouldn't expect him to share any training, knowledge or anything else with you... (but you already know that... you're just enjoying busting our chops... thanx for that).

Works for the seller. Correct. Still should have some sort of ethics though.

Improperly