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Answers (22)
Best Answer
- Daniel Di Matteo, "DiMatteoGroup"
- Contributions:14
I'm sorry to hear that.
Your best bet would be to reach out to the Department of Real Estate to file a complaint: http://www.dre.ca.gov/cons_complaint.html
In addition you could also find out which Association of Realtors the agent is a part of (if any) and file a complaint with them as well.
Your best bet is with the CA Department of Real Estate.
Your best bet would be to reach out to the Department of Real Estate to file a complaint: http://www.dre.ca.gov/cons_complaint.html
In addition you could also find out which Association of Realtors the agent is a part of (if any) and file a complaint with them as well.
Your best bet is with the CA Department of Real Estate.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2741
Connie - I don't know what seems "clear cut" to you, but I have been following this saga here... and on trulia.
Nothing is clear cut to me.
With the most recent explanation of the process from the OP just below, it seems that what was done, while upsetting and frustrating, followed protocol in CA.
Since I am not familiar with the process there..I will wait for further updates, and especially wait to see how CA agents respond to the poster's recent comments.
jmarker - just as a point of information..........in NJ, you can have a fully signed contract, but, we have a 3 day "Attorney review" period.... during the 3 business days following acceptance and signatures, either party can cancel the deal.
So.........If the seller gets a higher/better offer, they can kill the first deal, with no reasons given, and go with the new deal.
Fair?? maybe not...............legal? yes
So............this process varies throughout the country.
Nothing is clear cut to me.
With the most recent explanation of the process from the OP just below, it seems that what was done, while upsetting and frustrating, followed protocol in CA.
Since I am not familiar with the process there..I will wait for further updates, and especially wait to see how CA agents respond to the poster's recent comments.
jmarker - just as a point of information..........in NJ, you can have a fully signed contract, but, we have a 3 day "Attorney review" period.... during the 3 business days following acceptance and signatures, either party can cancel the deal.
So.........If the seller gets a higher/better offer, they can kill the first deal, with no reasons given, and go with the new deal.
Fair?? maybe not...............legal? yes
So............this process varies throughout the country.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2900
definitely follow up up with the complaint at the link Daniel gave you.
and if you don't mind it would be helpful to us to know the outcome.
from what you've described it sounds pretty clear cut to me. I am always willing to accept that there are details that we don't know that make it less clear cut. So that's where the learning comes in.
Best of luck, if nothing else it might be helpful for others in CA to read your expereince with the complaint process.
- jmarker1
- Contributions:9
Multiple Counter Offers. Essentially, I was told that even if I accepted their terms, which I did, the Counter Offer required another signature acknowledging acceptance.
And that when you are in a Multiple Counter situation, the seller may make counter offers to more than one buyer—which they did—then even if BOTH buyers accept the terms, the sellers agent is still in the position to "choose" which buyer they will work with.
I'll tell you, in any other sales situation this would be considered unethical, can you imagine what would happen if two buyers wanted to buy the same car and the dealership had in writing the acceptance of multiple buyers on the price they asked for and they "chose" one? Probably would be sued for some type of discrimination in the choosing process.
- Cory La Scala, "San Diego CA Realtor"
- Contributions:419
Unless that agreement you had with the seller was in writing (fully executed contacts, addenda and counter offer), you didn't have a deal.
If it was an REO, a bank may require another signature, which was most likely disclosed on one of the addenda you signed. If it was a private sale, then it sounds like you had a deal.
If you did have a fully executed contract, you should be taking this time to have a consult with a real estate attorney. You can also go to the agent's office in person and speak to the broker of record.
If you were in a period of waiting, and you knew there was another offer, you could have offered more money by sending a second counter offer. If you didn't know, make this a lesson. Next time you're in this position, ask the listing agent to notify you if another offer comes in so you can revise your offer amount. An agent who's truly trying to get the most money for the seller will welcome it. A shady one won't.
This goes to show you how important it can be to get an offer in early. There's no waiting until the morning, or Monday, these days. Many non-short sale listings can go very fast.
I hope it works out for you!
If it was an REO, a bank may require another signature, which was most likely disclosed on one of the addenda you signed. If it was a private sale, then it sounds like you had a deal.
If you did have a fully executed contract, you should be taking this time to have a consult with a real estate attorney. You can also go to the agent's office in person and speak to the broker of record.
If you were in a period of waiting, and you knew there was another offer, you could have offered more money by sending a second counter offer. If you didn't know, make this a lesson. Next time you're in this position, ask the listing agent to notify you if another offer comes in so you can revise your offer amount. An agent who's truly trying to get the most money for the seller will welcome it. A shady one won't.
This goes to show you how important it can be to get an offer in early. There's no waiting until the morning, or Monday, these days. Many non-short sale listings can go very fast.
I hope it works out for you!
If you accept a counter offer, and sign it without countering back you are in contract as soon as that fact is communicated back to the seller.
In fact, with a live offer/counteroffer in your hands, the seller has to cancel the offer to you, before accepting another offer in order to avoid the risk of doubly selling the home.
With your latest details, you might very well have an enforceable contract, and could pursue your right to buy the home. You will need competent local legal advice to decide.
In fact, with a live offer/counteroffer in your hands, the seller has to cancel the offer to you, before accepting another offer in order to avoid the risk of doubly selling the home.
With your latest details, you might very well have an enforceable contract, and could pursue your right to buy the home. You will need competent local legal advice to decide.
- jmarker1
- Contributions:9
What is considered a fully executed contract?
If I receive a counter offer from the seller asking for more money; it has his signature on line #5, and checked the box that says the "seller makes this counter offer on the terms above and acknowledges receipt if of this copy".
And I the buyer, sign on line #6 and check the box that says "Acceptance of the above counter offer".
Then my real estate agent faxes or emails to the seller's agent that document, what is left to do?
That's where it ended. We have receipt that the fax was sent with date and time.
- sillowfixer
- Contributions:9
Keep in mind that the agent for the seller has an agency agreement with the seller. If you have an executed contract (all documents signed by all parties to the transaction), then it sounds as if you may have a legitimate gripe. If there was no FULLY EXECUTED contract, you have nothing. As an agent, I make sure all signatures are obtained at the earliest possible time to avoid issues like this.
Good luck with everything.
P.S. Out of curiosity... Where did you find your agent? Did you research their credentials and history before hiring him/her?
While I personally don't see how you have a legitimate gripe (based on what I took from your post), but if you wish, you can file a brief with the California Department Of Real Estate.
Good luck with everything.
P.S. Out of curiosity... Where did you find your agent? Did you research their credentials and history before hiring him/her?
While I personally don't see how you have a legitimate gripe (based on what I took from your post), but if you wish, you can file a brief with the California Department Of Real Estate.
- jmarker1
- Contributions:9
Someone asked if there was more than one owner, seller.
This is a case of a home renovation company purchasing an old house using money from an investment group, the legal owner, and remodeling it, and using their in house real estate agent who is his own broker to sell their product; remodeled homes.
I made the initial offer.
They returned with a counter offer.
I signed that counter offer which had the sellers signature already on it asking for more money.
I sent the signed document back to seller.
I was told it still required a second signature from the selling investment group on that document before we could file escrow. My real estate agent and I fully expected to open escrow the following morning.
It may be legal but is highly shady of the agent and the home renovation company that he is partnered with.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:2741
Since I responded to your same question on Trulia, I will be brief here.
The seller's agent has no fiduciary responsiblity to you... nor does she have any responsibility to protect YOUR offer.
She works for the sellers. If the sellers were open to other offers - it was their choice.
If they had an open house, it also indicates they were possibly still lookng for other offers, and casts doubt on whether any fully executed contract existed.
Without a fully signed contract - signed and agreed to by all parties........there is no solid deal.
Anything can happen.
As I also said on the other forum - negotiations aren't always fair.
I am sorry it didn't turn out in your favor, but based on what you have shared, I don't see that you have a justifiable complaint.
That being said, you are certainly free to file a complaint if you choose to do so.
Actually, if your agent thinks what was done was "unethical", then she should be directing you in regard to filing a complaint --- - heck , she should be the one filing a complaint, too!
If I believed my offer wasn't presented to the seller - I'd be on the phone calling the seller directly.....or at the very least, calling the other agent's Broker asap!
Best wishes.........
The seller's agent has no fiduciary responsiblity to you... nor does she have any responsibility to protect YOUR offer.
She works for the sellers. If the sellers were open to other offers - it was their choice.
If they had an open house, it also indicates they were possibly still lookng for other offers, and casts doubt on whether any fully executed contract existed.
Without a fully signed contract - signed and agreed to by all parties........there is no solid deal.
Anything can happen.
As I also said on the other forum - negotiations aren't always fair.
I am sorry it didn't turn out in your favor, but based on what you have shared, I don't see that you have a justifiable complaint.
That being said, you are certainly free to file a complaint if you choose to do so.
Actually, if your agent thinks what was done was "unethical", then she should be directing you in regard to filing a complaint --- - heck , she should be the one filing a complaint, too!
If I believed my offer wasn't presented to the seller - I'd be on the phone calling the seller directly.....or at the very least, calling the other agent's Broker asap!
Best wishes.........
- Joshua Stein, "JSteinHomes"
- Contributions:140
I'm a little confused about the whole "second signature" thing. Were there two sellers, or just the one? If two, why was the original (counter) offer signed by the second seller first? If only one seller, then there should have been no need for a second signature unless YOU made a change to that offer.
To make a deal, you need OFFER, ACCEPTANCE and CONVEYANCE. The seller made the offer, you signed and accepted then your agent conveyed to their agent you acceptance of the offer. If that happened, you had a deal, and the other offer could not be accepted. The seller can't sell the same house to two different parties.
If the above was the case, your next step should be to consult an attorney to find out where you can go from here.
To make a deal, you need OFFER, ACCEPTANCE and CONVEYANCE. The seller made the offer, you signed and accepted then your agent conveyed to their agent you acceptance of the offer. If that happened, you had a deal, and the other offer could not be accepted. The seller can't sell the same house to two different parties.
If the above was the case, your next step should be to consult an attorney to find out where you can go from here.
- The RYAN POAG Group
- Contributions:9
If you haven't already, I would speak to the Broker-In-Charge of the agency who represents you, and have them call the listing agent's Broker-In-Charge. If that doesn't get you anywhere, then you and your agent should definitely consult your attorney together. I'm sure your agent is H.O.T. and furious too!
- jmarker1
- Contributions:9
"I'm still curious as to where the OP's buy-side REA was in this whole deal, especially if there is a signed contract in place."
Do you mean my real estate agent? She was doing the forwarding, back and forth, of the digitally signed documents. When she didn't get the last document signed a second time by the seller, she said it was a bad sign. She called and called the sellers representing agent (the open house guy) but he would not return her calls. Then finally he did, saying he had an open house and found his own buyer.
That's why I think it was unethical. I am not convinced he ever presented that last signed document to the seller (an investment group) but rather produced his own buyer to make both sales commission and fees from representing the seller.
My Real estate agent said she thought it was unethical too.
I also want to point out I am a cash buyer. If I were the seller I would rather take a all cash offer like mine, even thought it was $3,000 less, than wait more than a month for the others buyers bank loan to go through or not.
- Wade Kawahara, "Wade Kawahara"
- Contributions:69
I would contact the California Department of RealEstate and they will tell byou how to file a complaint.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5684
I'm still curious as to where the OP's buy-side REA was in this whole deal, especially if there is a signed contract in place.
@ OP...
Did you use an buy-side REA, or were you dual-agency with the listing REA?
@ OP...
Did you use an buy-side REA, or were you dual-agency with the listing REA?
- Michael Emery, "MikeEmery"
- Contributions:7307
the shady open-house agent talked someone else into offering a little more ($3,000 more) and they decided to take that one instead.
And if you were the seller you wouldn't want another $3,000 in your pocket?
In the end it's at the decision of the homeowner which offer to take, regardless of the perceived ethics of the agent.
And if you were the seller you wouldn't want another $3,000 in your pocket?
In the end it's at the decision of the homeowner which offer to take, regardless of the perceived ethics of the agent.
- jmarker1
- Contributions:9
I signed the sellers last offer; it had his signature on it first; then I signed it and sent it back to him.
I was told it still needed another ( a second) signature from him........?
But by while waiting for his second signature the shady open-house agent talked someone else into offering a little more ($3,000 more) and they decided to take that one instead.
I was told it still needed another ( a second) signature from him........?
But by while waiting for his second signature the shady open-house agent talked someone else into offering a little more ($3,000 more) and they decided to take that one instead.
until the seller signs your counter, (or vice a versa) either party can do whatever they want.
So, If I am understanding your narrative correctly, you guys verbally agreed to a price, you sent the counter... but the seller never signed it? then you don't have a contract, and you can file this under bad luck. Had you signed the seller's last counter, you would have been in contract and could have demanded they sell it to you.
EVERY time you counter, you leave it wide open for someone else to step in. The selling agent's job is to get as much money as possible for his client, so what precisely are you claiming he did wrong?
So, If I am understanding your narrative correctly, you guys verbally agreed to a price, you sent the counter... but the seller never signed it? then you don't have a contract, and you can file this under bad luck. Had you signed the seller's last counter, you would have been in contract and could have demanded they sell it to you.
EVERY time you counter, you leave it wide open for someone else to step in. The selling agent's job is to get as much money as possible for his client, so what precisely are you claiming he did wrong?
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5684
"After receiving one more counter offer from the seller, we agreed on a sell price. Hours after I agreed on sale price with the seller their representing real estate agent held an open house and took on another potential buyer telling them they needed to offer full list price because there was already an offer on the house."
Was a contract in effect? If not, then you're likely not going to be able to do much. The listing REA's responsibility is to get the best deal they can for the seller. Sounds like they did just that...unless you were sitting on a signed (both parties) contract.
If I was the seller and knew that I had an offer-in-hand and potential for others, I'd hold off for a bit and see what happened. Also, I'd have negotiated the commission structure so that I'd get more of the proceeds if the REA handled both sides of the deal.
Bottom line...
Did you have a contract in place, or just a verbal agreement. If there's anyone to be torqued at, it's your REA. What were they doing to protect your interest (like putting a fuse on your offer)?
Was a contract in effect? If not, then you're likely not going to be able to do much. The listing REA's responsibility is to get the best deal they can for the seller. Sounds like they did just that...unless you were sitting on a signed (both parties) contract.
If I was the seller and knew that I had an offer-in-hand and potential for others, I'd hold off for a bit and see what happened. Also, I'd have negotiated the commission structure so that I'd get more of the proceeds if the REA handled both sides of the deal.
Bottom line...
Did you have a contract in place, or just a verbal agreement. If there's anyone to be torqued at, it's your REA. What were they doing to protect your interest (like putting a fuse on your offer)?
- Dunes....
- Contributions:3894
Who said it was a Bank-owned Property?
What does your Agent say?..
If you still feel strongly about this then file the complaint and let the State decide if you have nothing
What does your Agent say?..
If you still feel strongly about this then file the complaint and let the State decide if you have nothing
- Michael Emery, "MikeEmery"
- Contributions:7307
I don't believe the sellers real estate agent... even showed my last signed agreement to what they said they would take
Unless you have proof, you have nothing.
Unless you have proof, you have nothing.
- Ron Brown, "N. Scottsdale Broker"
- Contributions:78
It sounds like sour grapes to me. Did you receive a signed counter offer from the bank or was it just a verbal from the listing agent? Until you sign the banks counter offer and return it to them, they have every right to continue to market the property to find fair market value, which is what the listing agent did. There is nothing wrong with allowing a prospective buyer to know that there is already an offer on the table.
The agent did his job for the bank which was getting the highest and best price.
Next time you offer, make sure you offer what you are prepared to pay. Cash offers will beat out financed offers, but only by a few percent. The bottom line for bank is the important issue.
Your only recourse is to ask to be put in backup position in case the first buyer fails to perform.
The agent did his job for the bank which was getting the highest and best price.
Next time you offer, make sure you offer what you are prepared to pay. Cash offers will beat out financed offers, but only by a few percent. The bottom line for bank is the important issue.
Your only recourse is to ask to be put in backup position in case the first buyer fails to perform.
San Diego Real estate agent working as duel agent against my previous agreement with
Want to know how to complain about unethical shady dealings with a sellers representing real estate agent in San Diego, CA. A house was on the market for a month. I liked the house and my real estate agent drew up paperwork and made the official first offer. It was a little below list price, but all cash. After receiving one more counter offer from the seller, we agreed on a sell price. Hours after I agreed on sale price with the seller their representing real estate agent held an open house and took on another potential buyer telling them they needed to offer full list price because there was already an offer on the house. Bingo, this real estate agent is now representing the seller AND the other buyer. Working against my previous agreement with the seller, doing so I believe it is to collect both commission for the sale, and service fees from the seller. I don't believe the sellers real estate agent, now representing both seller and other buyer, even showed my last signed agreement to what they said they would take. What can I do about this. Their deal has not closed yet. I still want the house. I think it was shady and unethical for the other real estate agent to hold an open house after I agreed on a sale price with the seller.
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