Scam or Legit? Real estate Training Programs

Robert Allen is a complete scam. Just google robert allen scam if you don't belive me, or 'robert allen ripoff'

I like to check out companies I consider doing business with on this website: www.RipoffReport.com

Good luck with your decision

what does everyone think about Armando Montelongo flip and grow rich program?

It just seems like anyone who "invests" and "flips" and makes some money on their own wants to come up with their own "Real Estate Wealth" program and such.  People like Armando Montelongo and anyone else who comes up with a "training book" or "program" end up getting rich off of people buying their programs and going to their seminars regardless of how good the content (or lack thereof...  most of those programs and conferences are set up to get you to upgrade to the next program and get a mentor) of the program actually is.  I personally am weary of them, there's no true get-rich program out there.  Easy money is money that's easily gone!

I have learned from just about all of the real estate gurus out there - there books, programs, games, mentor programs etc...

THey are all going to get you to be able to strategize and create a formula that works for YOU and YOU ONLY...

You must personalize this information and cement your plans and strategies - you actually have make a start sometime and develop your formula in real life.

CONCLUSION:

Education is the key to motivating desire and developing a personal formula and strategy for wealth. I like real estate...

from working at a law firm that represents banks and does a lot of real estate deals, i can tell you that most of what those people recommend is either (a) impossible or (b) completely illegal. for instance, assumable mortgages: haven't been around for 20+ years. in the (b) category, we see a lot of people saying that they are getting a mortgage for a residence, instead of being honest about the house being an investment property. that's the mildest bit of fraud we have been seeing lately.

look at casey serin. he was lazy, irresponsible and stupid, and he followed the advice he was given to a "T".

take this guy, if you need another example. pahotlistings: Education is the key to motivating desire and developing a personal formula and strategy for wealth. does that actually mean anything? no, but it sounds really good, and it makes a person who thinks big words = big ideas feel stupid enough to go along with anything that guy says.

btw,

pahotlistings.com,

i read your website. i live in pa, and pa was only settled by the europeans a little over a century before the first successful european colonization of new zealand. (1620s/1760s) so, no, pa does not have "sites and sounds and experiences centuries older" than those in new zealand. if you don't feel like reading a book, you can just wiki it.

amayllism,

I'm interested to hear more about what types of tricks people all trying to pull over now.  I'll bet you see them all! 

I'm sorry that I misspelled your name, by the way.

I believe that education is a key... That is why I am a college professor, and went to UC Berkeley for my graduate work. 15 years in academia after 5 years as a research engineer, and I think I have had enough QUALITY education to comment on the value of education offered by the various gurus: WORTH LESS THAN ZERO. Most of the advice is either bad or illegal. Most of the gurus make money by being charasmatic at selling their program, NOT by actually investing according to their program.

If you want to make money, long term, in real estate, read some boring dense books that explain investing in real estate. Understand cap ratios, ROI, customary expenses in investing in real estate, and understand economics well. You WILL need to time and place your purchases properly to make money, and you will need to work hard. None of the gurus ever mention that part. You also need money. 0% down is 100% bulllshit to real investors, we find that lots of money down solves problems and improves negotiation positions.

Azrob,

Have you taught real estate classes in college?  I would have loved to have taken some but the school where I did my graduate business work didn't offer any at the time.  I know some schools do teach real estate.  I would take those classes hands down any day over some "free 3-day seminar" by Russ Whitney or the like.

suprise007: don't worry, half the time, i misspell my own name.

oh yeah, we see it all. and you can always tell who took advice from a guru. they're the ones insisting they did nothing wrong as their lawyers wring their hands and cringe. azrob is absolutely right. making money in real estate is possible in any market, if you work hard and are very knowledgeable. it's not the sort of thing that happens overnight.

if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

Amaryllism,

But then how is it that these "gurus" use their own lawyers?  They must know what is and isn't legal.  So how is it that the "gurus" keep going it at and insist that their lawyers claim there's nothing illegal being done?  Sounds very contradictory and I'm certain that it is.

because the gurus don't make money in real estate. they make money being gurus. their lawyers tell them exactly what claims they can and cannot make and put fancy disclosures on all their books, dvds, etc.

as for armondo, he has been sued, and lost, many times for illegal activity. go to flipthislawsuit.com for the full listing of the legal troubles of the flip this house crowd.

That is exactly right!  They cover their a$$e$ with the disclosures on the courses.  So I guess you would say that this type of market is pretty good for RE attorneys??  I mean, they're getting plenty of work, right?

well, not for honest RE attorneys. you're risking your license with that sort of crap. my firm won't touch it. attorneys, being educated in the law, are held to a higher standard than the rest of us. but yeah, that sort of burn and churn is popular with a certain sort of attorney. we call them christmas card attorneys. (attorneys so bad at their jobs, they create huge amounts of work for the rest of us. so much work, in fact, that we ought to send them christmas cards and thank them)

It just seems that some of these gurus are bullet proof, though.  For example, there's one in particular named Russ Whitney and he's been sued countless times.  He himself is quick to slap a lawsuit on somebody at the drop off of a hat too.  He is also being investigated by the SEC as well as have been many of his field speakers and salesman for deceptive practices.  He just keeps going and going.  Of course, I know his investment support has dwindled but it just seems like he might not go down any time soon.  He lives and operates in my home town but hardly ANYONE here knows who he is or what his company does.

they're not really bullet proof, they're just careful. lawsuits are expensive, so lawsuits often are settled (which makes it look like the suit has disappeared.) and, these guys frequently just declare bankruptcy when things get ugly and then start again with a different corporate name.

unfortunately, the law is by the letter, not by the intent. this allows people like whitney to take advantage of what isn't said, but was clearly meant, by the writer of the law.

Good points!  I was on that flipthislawsuit.com website and afterwards, I realized that it hadn't dawned on me that A&E is greatly responsible for the misleading success of these flippers.  Armando Montelongo is a perfect example. 

oh yeah! they let these guys talk up their own success without producing any evidence or showing the flip side (pun intended) in terms of losses, lawsuits, etc.

keep in mind, A&E is in the business of providing entertainment, not real estate education. it wouldn't be as entertaining to get into the nitty gritty of flipping. that's why montelongo is perfect for them- he's very entertaining. (if you want to know what my boss is like, imagine montelongo with a law degree)

i find it very disturbing when i watch TLC's flip that house, which is mostly novice flippers. they inevitably say, "well, i've watched people flip on tv, and i figure anyone can do that" who risks their financial future on the belief that everything you see on tv is true?

i watched a flip that house the other day in which a schoolteacher and her husband tried to flip an abandoned flip. (abandoned for good reason. it was too small and in terrible condition) the husband was doing most of the work himself, badly. i mean, he was laying travertine. if you know nothing about travertine, it is very brittle and even experienced professionals have trouble with it. after 23 weeks, they had done some very basic, mostly cosmetic work, all of which was done badly. chair rails didn't meet at the corners, tile was laid unlevel, the holes for the ceiling lights were too big and showed around the light. these people's lives will be ruined because they think it's exactly what it looks like on tv.

You must have a really fun boss!  Has he come up with a book and a training course on how to grow rich being an attorney??  Montelongo did...well, in the topic of flipping, however.  On another topic, now I've noticed that mortgage brokers are now all mostly pushing FHA loans.  Now, it seems like flippers will be able to lie about their residence in a certain home and purchase short sale or foreclosures with no money down!!  Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Hey surprise and amary...I'm glad to see some new faces here in the investment board.  I'll tell you that Rob and I have discussed formulas on here MULTIPLE times.  I've found through reading, as I've said before, is that the "real estate gurus" are all idea, and no substance.  To find what you are looking for..."long term wealth and stability" using real estate as the vehicle, check out some of the CCIM courses.  Now, I'm not sure what the requirements are for these courses, but the CCIM is pretty much the gold standard of investment real estate.  If you'd like to see some CCIM ideals, check out Tom Lundstead.  He's still along the lines of "hype" that the others are, but if you can sort through the junk with an inquiring mind, he has all of the formulas that CCIM teaches, since he's a CCIM himself.

His is pretty thourough, but again, forget the hype, and look for your formulas and your practice.  I look forward to talking about this topic more with you all.  Thank goodness we now have some more foot traffic in the Investment Board.

P.S.  Chutta is doing CCIM courses, and he's very good at what he does.  Rob himself is a landlord that has a wealth of information as well.

yeah, rob seems to be substance without hype. (i mean that in a good way)

these gurus make me mad because i get to see the end result of their advice. i really don't like foreclosing on people. i don't like freezing bank accounts and seizing assets. (ok, so i do enjoy doing that to people who were, in essence, stealing from the bank.) making money in real estate is possible. we have clients who do it every day. but you're not going to make $40k in 2 weeks with no money down and no effort. not happening. making money in real estate is difficult and requires effort and knowledge.

as for flippers lying about their residence, they've been doing that for years! banks give lower rates and are somewhat laxer in their standards (we're not discussing subprime here) to residential loans. the logic being that you will fight harder to keep the family home than an investment property. so, there are those who will lie and state that a flip is a primary residence.

can we say mortgage fraud?

Definitely!  I highly regard JimSulli, Azrob, and Chutta!  I don't care what anyone says about Azrob, he still knows his stuff.

Rob is the real "realist".  The "real slim shady".  Rob and I got into it a bit when I first came to the board, but that was during the "learning curve" of posting on Zillow.  We're solid now, and I enjoy reading him thouroughly.

Rob's on vaca right now, but I'm curious to see what he thinks about Tom Lundstead.

You hear that Roberto...get back soon and grace us with your ever respected opinion.

ok, i'm going to feel very silly, no doubt, but who's tom lundstead?

what does "realist" mean on this board? how come some people call themselves "xxxxx the realist"? i thought at first that realist were houseing marking cheerleaders (alpine the realist), but not all of them are.

I think that Klarek started it.  There is a constant battle back and forth which position the "realist" is.  It's actually quite amusing. 

And Tom Ludstead is not one of the most popular one, but he's another in the mix of real estate investment writers.  The difference is that he "actually" has the qualifications.

Funny thing about him too...he used to be a catcher for the Chicago Cubs.