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- Tiffany Bond, "TiffanyBond"
- Contributions:3010
Isn't macing other store patrons to save $100 always a good sign for a functional economy?
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26841
Where the stores busy? Well, the drive up line at Starbucks certainly was busy with the line extending several cars into the street. The hiking trails were absolutely empty - perhaps as a consequence of the rain, perhaps everyone shopping.
Is pepper spray in the stores a sign of the times, or simply one sick selfish individual?
Is pepper spray in the stores a sign of the times, or simply one sick selfish individual?
- Tiffany Bond, "TiffanyBond"
- Contributions:3010
The tragedy to me of the pepper spray incident is that she was actually able to purchase the item she assaulted people to get to. Where is karma when you need it?
The stores were relatively crazy when I ventured out. You'd have to give a free house away to get me to shop in the middle of the night, so I was out at the reasonable hour of 10am. I was happy to see small business Saturday getting more traction in my area this year.
The stores were relatively crazy when I ventured out. You'd have to give a free house away to get me to shop in the middle of the night, so I was out at the reasonable hour of 10am. I was happy to see small business Saturday getting more traction in my area this year.
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1969
I think it tells ya there are a lot of Dummies running loose disguised as Humans and that's about all it tells you
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
I think what it really means is two things...
#1 Consumer's are much like Pavlov's dogs. Show them the "deal of a lifetime" and they can't help themselves.
#2 American consumers (won't generalize beyond our border/culture) aren't very good at denying themselves - especially at $100/indulgence.
So...
Maybe a combination of "whistling through the financial graveyard" and "get while the getting is good, and let tomorrow's payments worry about themselves"?
#1 Consumer's are much like Pavlov's dogs. Show them the "deal of a lifetime" and they can't help themselves.
#2 American consumers (won't generalize beyond our border/culture) aren't very good at denying themselves - especially at $100/indulgence.
So...
Maybe a combination of "whistling through the financial graveyard" and "get while the getting is good, and let tomorrow's payments worry about themselves"?
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21466
Well, I enjoyed socializing with some of the sales clerks at the smaller stores, and enjoyed watching the crowds in the extremely long lines at the larger stores.
It was a very enjoyable day. Sure, I may have bought some stuff at 0% interest that I have absolutely no use for, but it is not like I overspent for the stuff, and the items are not perishable so maybe I might eventually do something with them, such as giving them away to make other feel good?
Or maybe that might be a hedge against inflation of the Euro collapses?
(It is presently thought that if the Euro does collapse, it would have less than a 2% impact on the U.S economy, but watching all the stock and bond swings every time there is any Euro news, it appears that market swings based on Euro news is much more volatile than just 2%.)
It was a very enjoyable day. Sure, I may have bought some stuff at 0% interest that I have absolutely no use for, but it is not like I overspent for the stuff, and the items are not perishable so maybe I might eventually do something with them, such as giving them away to make other feel good?
Or maybe that might be a hedge against inflation of the Euro collapses?
(It is presently thought that if the Euro does collapse, it would have less than a 2% impact on the U.S economy, but watching all the stock and bond swings every time there is any Euro news, it appears that market swings based on Euro news is much more volatile than just 2%.)
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4699
Shopping behavior is often dictated by someone thinking they can pay for something on a fantastic markdown.
I learned the lesson of black Friday years ago, Stay home until it is over. Nothing offered as a great deal that day is still around after 8 in the morning and the traffic is unbearable.
I learned the lesson of black Friday years ago, Stay home until it is over. Nothing offered as a great deal that day is still around after 8 in the morning and the traffic is unbearable.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2579
I haven't been in a retail establishment other than a restaurant and hotel since Tues., and they were 1000 miles from home in a place I have never been before, so I have no idea if they were normal for Thanksgiving weekend. I flew slightly off peak on this little vacation, but was very surprised at how many empty spaces there were in long term parking at PDX compared to years past, and that I was able to score upgrades, with only the lowest level of airline status, to 1st class on all of our flights, but the flights were full or almost full.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
did you see the video of the pepper spray incident? it wasn't just the use of the spray that was concerning...those people were packed in there like.....well...all the images that come to mind are swarms of bugs climbing over one another.
I can't imagine what it would be like to have to WORK in that setting. Hopefully that was not the case everywhere. I heard things were calm here(compararitvely speaking).
- Tiffany Bond, "TiffanyBond"
- Contributions:3010
Connie, but have you ever been to the People of Walmart site? (http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/) I don't know that the behavior was that out of sorts for the venue.
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3463
It's simple! BLACK FRIDAY IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY!
And, after much group discussion, and attempted rectification, SoCal Engr has displayed the actual root causes of both Black Friday antics, and the Housing Bubble cum Financial Crisis.
#1 Consumer's are much like Pavlov's dogs. Show them the "deal of a lifetime" and they can't help themselves.
#2 American consumers (won't generalize beyond our border/culture) aren't very good at denying themselves - especially at $100/indulgence.
And, after much group discussion, and attempted rectification, SoCal Engr has displayed the actual root causes of both Black Friday antics, and the Housing Bubble cum Financial Crisis.
#1 Consumer's are much like Pavlov's dogs. Show them the "deal of a lifetime" and they can't help themselves.
#2 American consumers (won't generalize beyond our border/culture) aren't very good at denying themselves - especially at $100/indulgence.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
I went out on Black Friday about 5:30AM---I know I should have been there standing in line being hardcore at 4AM, but I was sleepy and my alarm didn't go off... It was busy, but not overwhelming. Most people I saw were working a list and were buying deep discounts of at least 50%. I was out for about 1 1/2 hours total, picked up my short list with no trouble and went back home.
Later on Black Friday, I went back out to "visit" a specific sale item that I had passed up earlier to make sure that it was not the right gift after all. It was pretty quiet at the store except for the people waiting on background checks for lost leader rifles. A lot of looking, but not a lot of merchandise heading to the register. It seemed to me that people were intent on getting deals, but not rabid even at WalMart in my area at 6AM the midnight crowd may have been different though.
Later on Black Friday, I went back out to "visit" a specific sale item that I had passed up earlier to make sure that it was not the right gift after all. It was pretty quiet at the store except for the people waiting on background checks for lost leader rifles. A lot of looking, but not a lot of merchandise heading to the register. It seemed to me that people were intent on getting deals, but not rabid even at WalMart in my area at 6AM the midnight crowd may have been different though.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2579
I have to agree with Socal and Hamp. But will also point out how loudly businesses scream and ramp up their lobbying efforts at the slightest hint of anyone trying to increase education to improve economic/consumer literacy.
In the US we have an anti-product/service economy that is based on nothing more than screwing each other over to get our share of what we can borrow from more functional economies. So I guess there are some enablers outside of the US borders.
In the US we have an anti-product/service economy that is based on nothing more than screwing each other over to get our share of what we can borrow from more functional economies. So I guess there are some enablers outside of the US borders.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21466
I was asked to drive some people to an outlet mall yesterday afternoon... (Sunday).
Parking attendants and traffic directors at every parking isle. Parking in unrelated business 5 blocks away. No wheelchair curb-cuts to cross the streets from the remote parking sites.
Guards outside many stores, with lines of 30 people outside the stores to go in.
Substantial cigarette smoke outside the stores.
And the prices were not even discounted.
Each small store seemed to have about 15 extremely busy sales clerks. And long lines for the cash registers and fitting rooms.
I can't imagine why anyone would buy anything at those locations in that kind of environment.
Parking attendants and traffic directors at every parking isle. Parking in unrelated business 5 blocks away. No wheelchair curb-cuts to cross the streets from the remote parking sites.
Guards outside many stores, with lines of 30 people outside the stores to go in.
Substantial cigarette smoke outside the stores.
And the prices were not even discounted.
Each small store seemed to have about 15 extremely busy sales clerks. And long lines for the cash registers and fitting rooms.
I can't imagine why anyone would buy anything at those locations in that kind of environment.
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3463
I wouldn't venture out into the Service Information Economy on the Friday after Thanksgiving, if they gave me a buggy full of imported crap, a Xanax sample and Coupon, a wage, and insisted that I accost, in a manner of my choosing, every employee I encountered, as part of the atmospherics.
I treat "Black Friday" like a good Southerner treats a well reported impending snow storm. I go to the store before the storm arrives, get extra staples, and avoid the going to the store thing, until the storm passes. The Black Friday storm usually passes by mid January.
Wal-Martica makes me feel all Third World Socialist Sweat-Suit Sweatshop, on a slow day. There's no way I'm crashing my Holiday Weekend Bus Tour into that crowd.
I treat "Black Friday" like a good Southerner treats a well reported impending snow storm. I go to the store before the storm arrives, get extra staples, and avoid the going to the store thing, until the storm passes. The Black Friday storm usually passes by mid January.
Wal-Martica makes me feel all Third World Socialist Sweat-Suit Sweatshop, on a slow day. There's no way I'm crashing my Holiday Weekend Bus Tour into that crowd.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
@Tiffany
no i have never seen that site and now that I have my eyes will never be the same. I run to walmart all the time...now I am going to have to make sure I am presentable before going.
@sunnyview- that's because all the crazy people were there at 10pm Thursday night getting their $150 trampoline and their $200 tv by 5 am they were back home in bed. At least with black friday starting late at night perhaps more people actually stayed dressed and didn't go shopping in Pajamas. (last year this bothered me a lot to see this). I am just assuming./hoping that's true-but then again...I see people in Pajamas on normal days = so probably not.
I actually have a lot of mix feelings on the topic myself. There's the whole concept of - capitalism needs the spending to sustain itself so...the shopping was good. Then there is the pepper spray incidents that renew my weak faith in fellow man. Then there is the nagging voice that says- marketing experts at the stores should bear some responsibility for the panic/buy now atmosphere.
I don't like blaming media/business for behavior of individuals but I find myself wanting to do that. and I do like the pavlov dog comparison. So if that is the case...you know they are going to salivate- then is it wrong to keep ringing the bell?
I don''t know.
It's possible that the increase in shopping (minus the displayed behavior) means that people had a little cash to spend and jobs to make more money- that would be good for us all. This is the hope I feel as I refill my half full glass of peachy stuff. (living on the fence is a painful spot to be sometimes)
no i have never seen that site and now that I have my eyes will never be the same. I run to walmart all the time...now I am going to have to make sure I am presentable before going.
@sunnyview- that's because all the crazy people were there at 10pm Thursday night getting their $150 trampoline and their $200 tv by 5 am they were back home in bed. At least with black friday starting late at night perhaps more people actually stayed dressed and didn't go shopping in Pajamas. (last year this bothered me a lot to see this). I am just assuming./hoping that's true-but then again...I see people in Pajamas on normal days = so probably not.
I actually have a lot of mix feelings on the topic myself. There's the whole concept of - capitalism needs the spending to sustain itself so...the shopping was good. Then there is the pepper spray incidents that renew my weak faith in fellow man. Then there is the nagging voice that says- marketing experts at the stores should bear some responsibility for the panic/buy now atmosphere.
I don't like blaming media/business for behavior of individuals but I find myself wanting to do that. and I do like the pavlov dog comparison. So if that is the case...you know they are going to salivate- then is it wrong to keep ringing the bell?
I don''t know.
It's possible that the increase in shopping (minus the displayed behavior) means that people had a little cash to spend and jobs to make more money- that would be good for us all. This is the hope I feel as I refill my half full glass of peachy stuff. (living on the fence is a painful spot to be sometimes)
- Tiffany Bond, "TiffanyBond"
- Contributions:3010
@Connie
I find the site to be a huge ego boost. Even on my worst days I can go there and think "at least when I run to the store I remember to put clothes on my bottom half," or "I know how to use a belt."
I find the site to be a huge ego boost. Even on my worst days I can go there and think "at least when I run to the store I remember to put clothes on my bottom half," or "I know how to use a belt."
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
Regarding the Pavlov dog analogy, where it breaks down is....
Dog's are smarter than people.
If you reinforce a behavior, the dog (and other animals/fish/etc.) will repeat that behavior. However, if you follow the reinforcement with a strong negative - at some point in time the dog/animal will associate the behavior and reinforcement with the follow-on negative reinforcement - and stops the behavior. I know, I used this to break a dog from running out the gate whenever it was opened.
People, on the other hand, seem to be prone to the "nah, not this time" or "nah, maybe others, but not me" syndromes.
Dog's are smarter than people.
If you reinforce a behavior, the dog (and other animals/fish/etc.) will repeat that behavior. However, if you follow the reinforcement with a strong negative - at some point in time the dog/animal will associate the behavior and reinforcement with the follow-on negative reinforcement - and stops the behavior. I know, I used this to break a dog from running out the gate whenever it was opened.
People, on the other hand, seem to be prone to the "nah, not this time" or "nah, maybe others, but not me" syndromes.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
I should look at it that way.
I'm still just disturbed by the photos.
might have to go visit some disney pages with eternally happy images to recover
I'm still just disturbed by the photos.
might have to go visit some disney pages with eternally happy images to recover
- Antoinette Iemma, "AIEMMA"
- Contributions:93
I would like to believe it is a start in a show of consumer confidence. The New York Post is reporting the number of shoppers nearly tripled this year compared to last (not including web shoppers). I will keep my fingers crossed.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
no disagreement that dogs are smarter.
but...not sure I've seen the strong negative reinforcement. as tiffany pointed out in the one incident- they lady was able to purchase those items. - positive reinforcement to do it again. (which is why I lean toward store responsibility)
am I wrong or was it not the case when the dog was rewarded some of the time it still responded each time as if the reward was coming. the response only stops when the lack of a postiive reward consistently stops. I'm too lazy to go look that up right now, and about to sign off for the night. Might have to dig out the old psych books later to know for sure.
I carried that way off track I know.
but...not sure I've seen the strong negative reinforcement. as tiffany pointed out in the one incident- they lady was able to purchase those items. - positive reinforcement to do it again. (which is why I lean toward store responsibility)
am I wrong or was it not the case when the dog was rewarded some of the time it still responded each time as if the reward was coming. the response only stops when the lack of a postiive reward consistently stops. I'm too lazy to go look that up right now, and about to sign off for the night. Might have to dig out the old psych books later to know for sure.
I carried that way off track I know.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
AIEMMA
I'd like to believe that too.hope that is the case.
I'd like to believe that too.hope that is the case.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:5666
WalMart pepper-spray lady is looking at possible felony assault.
My dog looked depressingly at the positive reward (a piece of cheese I held in my hand) - knowing that if he came out the gate to get it then there would be an immediate not-enjoyable consequence.
A year later, after I had to give up my dog (neighbor issues) to a family in our church, the related this story to me...
The family went out for dinner, and returned home to see the gate wide open. One of the kids had not shut it. Crushed, they got out of the car expecting the dog to be gone. No sooner had the first car door slammed shut than the pooch came flying around the corner of the house - it had not run off after all.
And, the clincher? Came sliding to a four-paw stop at the fence, right before the open gate.
My dog looked depressingly at the positive reward (a piece of cheese I held in my hand) - knowing that if he came out the gate to get it then there would be an immediate not-enjoyable consequence.
A year later, after I had to give up my dog (neighbor issues) to a family in our church, the related this story to me...
The family went out for dinner, and returned home to see the gate wide open. One of the kids had not shut it. Crushed, they got out of the car expecting the dog to be gone. No sooner had the first car door slammed shut than the pooch came flying around the corner of the house - it had not run off after all.
And, the clincher? Came sliding to a four-paw stop at the fence, right before the open gate.
- Michael Emery, "MikeEmery"
- Contributions:7298
I went out to my downtown Target on Thanksgiving evening. I thought it might be a bit of fun, and heck how many people are going to venture downtown on Thanksgiving eve?
How about maybe 1000-1500? The line went to the end of the block and wrapped down another half block. Once we got in, the electronics department was sheer bedlam. Shoppers were snapping up Westinghouse television sets, sometimes two at a time. Westinghouse? Seriously?
I spent exactly $10.00 and some tax on a new computer mouse. Ironically I could've gotten the same mouse the next day @ Office Max for $9.99.
But oddly enough, it was still fun.
How about maybe 1000-1500? The line went to the end of the block and wrapped down another half block. Once we got in, the electronics department was sheer bedlam. Shoppers were snapping up Westinghouse television sets, sometimes two at a time. Westinghouse? Seriously?
I spent exactly $10.00 and some tax on a new computer mouse. Ironically I could've gotten the same mouse the next day @ Office Max for $9.99.
But oddly enough, it was still fun.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
so maybe this is the follow up question.
all that money that was spent last week- was this just everyone spending it all at once- in other words are we going to see the SLOWEST shopping days ever from now til Christmas? does this compare to the gas purchasing behavior on 9/11/2001? I remember this well because I was extremely pregnant, 40 miles from home and On E, every gas station had LINES of cars. I made it home thankfully. the next 5 days (after gas stations were replished- they were still ghost towns- everyone had the gas they needed.)
hope that's not the case.
all that money that was spent last week- was this just everyone spending it all at once- in other words are we going to see the SLOWEST shopping days ever from now til Christmas? does this compare to the gas purchasing behavior on 9/11/2001? I remember this well because I was extremely pregnant, 40 miles from home and On E, every gas station had LINES of cars. I made it home thankfully. the next 5 days (after gas stations were replished- they were still ghost towns- everyone had the gas they needed.)
hope that's not the case.
- hpvanc
- Contributions:2579
I still have to do all of my Christmas shopping, but I can only speak for myself.
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4699
Connie, "all that money that was spent last week- was this just everyone spending it all at once- in other words are we going to see the SLOWEST shopping days ever from now til Christmas? "
This is actually a worry for wall street (and the stores). I saw on a business news segment that some are afraid that yes, excessive amounts of cash were spent but minimum profits were achieved because of the markdowns. The stores may be unable to get people to spend more in the next few weeks because of the massive sales on Friday.
A lot of people were NOT buying presents for others. They were buying things for themselves at a huge discount. It is possible many got what they wanted and sales will drop for awhile. The stores were afraid of smaller sales so they discounted heavily. Perhaps it will backfire. Look at the numbers in January to know for sure.
This is actually a worry for wall street (and the stores). I saw on a business news segment that some are afraid that yes, excessive amounts of cash were spent but minimum profits were achieved because of the markdowns. The stores may be unable to get people to spend more in the next few weeks because of the massive sales on Friday.
A lot of people were NOT buying presents for others. They were buying things for themselves at a huge discount. It is possible many got what they wanted and sales will drop for awhile. The stores were afraid of smaller sales so they discounted heavily. Perhaps it will backfire. Look at the numbers in January to know for sure.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
I bought one gift yesterday!
We are having a NON technology Christmas at my house. No video games, or anything to be used, connected to or otherwise invovled with computers, TVs or other electronics. The natives are complaining about this plan when we see cool commercials but all in all...I expect a good outcome.
We are having a NON technology Christmas at my house. No video games, or anything to be used, connected to or otherwise invovled with computers, TVs or other electronics. The natives are complaining about this plan when we see cool commercials but all in all...I expect a good outcome.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:21466
I traditionally do all Christmas gift shopping on December 24. It removes all the stress of not buying early, and removes the stress of guessing wrong, or having the gift already purchased.
And as far as I can tell, no one wants anything anyway, and the more that is given, the more they will be disappointed that they didn't get something else.
Halloween giving makes much more sense as you can make a whole family extremely happy for 3 weeks or more with only a very small fraction of a dollar.
The stores are forced to mark down for black Friday to avoid losing market share to their competitors. But it doesn't do a bit of good if no-one buys anything but the lost-leader items or the inventory clearance items.
Sure, a few of the trinkets I bought on Friday have already been given away. But it had absolutely nothing to do with "gift purchases".
And I still prefer the after Christmas, or January or February inventory clearance opportunities to the black Friday sales. And some stores have their inventory clearance in June or July, so it really is worth tracking what tax calendar some stores are on.
And as far as I can tell, no one wants anything anyway, and the more that is given, the more they will be disappointed that they didn't get something else.
Halloween giving makes much more sense as you can make a whole family extremely happy for 3 weeks or more with only a very small fraction of a dollar.
The stores are forced to mark down for black Friday to avoid losing market share to their competitors. But it doesn't do a bit of good if no-one buys anything but the lost-leader items or the inventory clearance items.
Sure, a few of the trinkets I bought on Friday have already been given away. But it had absolutely nothing to do with "gift purchases".
And I still prefer the after Christmas, or January or February inventory clearance opportunities to the black Friday sales. And some stores have their inventory clearance in June or July, so it really is worth tracking what tax calendar some stores are on.
- ConnieK_Oklahoma
- Contributions:2899
just for fun I repeated the topic as a question with a poll on hubpages.
so I'm waiting to see what the votes say (if I get any.) I wanted to put Nothing-it's Dummies disguised as Humans as the final vote but that felt like copying.
so I'm waiting to see what the votes say (if I get any.) I wanted to put Nothing-it's Dummies disguised as Humans as the final vote but that felt like copying.
Shopping behavior...does it speak of consumer confidence or fear or what?
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Contributions:2899thoughts and comments...
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