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Should refinancing be this hard?

I'm having such a painful refinancing experience! I contacted a mortgage broker at the end of December and decided to go with a quote he provided me with.

I signed all the paperwork, and then when he sent me an updated GFE I noticed he had added a $3K loan discount fee onto it. He tried explaining that my LTV had increased to over 70% after the appraisal, but really the LTV he originally told me he was looking at was over 70% already. And he keeps using all sorts of complicated mortgage lingo and doesn't clarify when I ask him to.

Anyways, that is just some background as to why I don't fully trust him...

So now, the lock on my loan is going to expire in a week, and he tells me that the lender won't have it closed by then because they have such a back-log. But he says he'll do his best to get them to keep the 4.5% rate that I locked in.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be screwed on this... that I'll lose the 4.5% rate and now rates have gone up significantly. And I can't believe it takes over 3 months to refinance a mortgage!

The lender doesn't have any obligation to give me the low rate after the lock has expired, right? What are my obligations to this broker... if I pass the lock date and the rate goes up, I don't have to stay with him anymore, do I? And will I owe him $ for the appraisal even if I'm not able to use it?

Thanks for any insights!
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February 16 - Ballard
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Profile picture for My Faith First
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Since August 2009

Increasing your closing costs by 3k and confusing you with mortgage lingo is not a very good testimony to your broker.  Also, a loan originated in December that has not closed yet has some serious issues with the file, processer, broker or lender.

You are so deep into this I would give it a little more time.  Rates are hanging in there.  Like Greg said, speak to management.

The most effective position to take is to let management and the loan officer know that if your rate changes or more fees are tacked on at the closing, you are going to WALK!!
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April 02
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Since September 2009

Sam gets the zillow "Thread Dredging Award of the Day"
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April 01
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Great insight Sam!!!
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April 01
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Should't be that hard.
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April 01
Profile picture for Greg Darlin
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Since September 2009

Rebekah,
First of all, you don't have to pay the .250 upfront.  It is tacked on the HUD and you will pay for it then if then.  So, don't sweat that as you have larger issues.
Instead of asking him things, I sincerely suggest you step up the matter and start dealing with his manager or regional sales manager if necessary.  Bypassing him will be in your best interest.  Can you really bank on what he is telling you at this point in time?
Complain to his manager the situation.  Getting a 5 day lock still doesn't work. 
You will be extending your rate lock for five business days.  So, count forward five business days after Monday: Saturday as it is a recessionary day.  Now count back 3 days because of the three day funding window for refinances (recessionary days).  You have to settle on Tuesday in order to have the loan fund within the time frame.  Do you really think that is going to happen at this point?

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February 17
Profile picture for pmcfadden
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You can change horses any time. They may try and stick with their costs (appraisal, etc.) but most of the time they eat those. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. It sounds like you got stuck with a fast-talking salesperson who couldn't keep their word. Good luck!
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February 17
Right, the $3K has been removed and I'm only refinancing the first mortgage now.

I have asked him about the subordination, and he said he'd follow up about it today, so we'll see.

He also said that he'd find out about an extension this Friday, since the lock expires on Monday. I'm hesitant to pay for it myself, since he says it costs .25 to extend the lock by 5 days, and the loan might not even close by then... I only pay the .25 if the loan closes in in the time frame of the new extension though, right?

Thanks everyone!
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February 17
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

Rebekah, just so I have this straight, you are now back to refinancing the 1st only, $360K, with an appraised value of $520K, and you have a 700 score. If that is correct, there are no loan adjustments at all so the $3,000 has been taken off the GFE, right? 
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February 17
Profile picture for Greg Darlin
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Since September 2009

Greg, I agree she should go ahead and tell him to extend the lock at the pricing of .125 for 10 business days.  In the meantime, she can talk to him and determine who will actually pay at settlement.
Rebekah, push the LO about the subordination.
Good luck
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February 17
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

Greg you are correct as all of my files were CJ's.

The problem is that after looking at the numbers, her 4.5% might be worth footing the bill for the extension if he cannot get one. As much as I hate to say it, with current rates as they are, it might be cheaper for her to close assuming the sub comes in. That's a whole new can or worms!
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February 17
Profile picture for Greg Darlin
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Since September 2009

Rob,
MetLife is giving some liberal extensions, especially to their Conforming Plus Product, which Rebekah doesn't have.
Rebekah, extend the rate lock but don't you foot the bill.  Again, the fee should only be .125 for ten business days.  They have everything except the subordination.  Call up the LO and tell him to get moving on the subordination.  You should be fine after that.
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February 17
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February 17
Profile picture for Rob Cochems
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Rebekah,

The way I see it, is that the pricing hit was probably legitmate from the appraisal coming in low.  However, the way he pussy footed around it, and just sent you out a new GFE in the hopes that you would not question it, shows a lot about their character.  As soon as that appraisal came in, he should have gone over it with you on the phone or email.

I do know turn times are ridiculously slow at Metlife, so that is out of his control.  But Gregorio says they are giving free extensions due to this.  If he cannot receive a free extension,, then you need to consider walking.
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February 17
I love me too! We have something in common. 
Rebekah- when this is over, and you close/don't close, please review the lender appropriately. As pointed out below, they either forgot about certain pricing adjustments, or were dishonest just to get your business. Stuff happens, but OWN UP to it- he should be up front with you about WHY these things have happened. They must be embarrassed. 
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February 17
Actually, the appraisal came back last month, and the whole $3K addition thing happened a couple of weeks ago... I didn't mean to imply that it was tacked on at the last second. I was just giving the background on why I don't fully trust him, which has lead to me not trusting him about the whole losing the lock, making me pay to extend it thing.

I'm mostly following your math here, and I agree with the theory that he forgot to charge me for the HELOC cash-out fee originally, then tacked on the whole fee (.75%) and hoped I wouldn't notice it was there. So yeah, I'm sure the fee structure makes sense in the end, but the process was lame.

So we'll see... the lock expires on Monday, so either he'll pay to extend the lock himself, find a way to have them extend it for free... or I'll drop him, find a new lender, and leave him a very detailed review on ZMM :)
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February 17
Profile picture for I love Tom Davis
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abr and crs is just a way to milk realtor for money. but it looks cool on your cards. GRI is the real deal. very hard to get. I wish I had it. I wouldnt be on zillow i be out making deals... hahaha
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February 17
Profile picture for Greg Darlin
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Since September 2009

Whew!
If Rebekah has a 390k loan with an appraised value of 520k, her LTV is 75%.  If the Heloc was not a purchase money Heloc, there is a .625 hit to pricing.  This is probably where the LO messed up. 
She took the Heloc out of the loan, making her loan amount 360k, with a LTV at 69%.  With a credit score greater than 700, no hits to pricing.  Anything over 720, there is an improvement to pricing of .250.  Keeping the original scenerio, I don't understand where the LO is coming up with 3k.I am not coming up with it, especially when MET gives an extra bonus of .250 for loan amounts greater than 250k.
The LO screwed up on his pricing in a big way.
The appraisal coming back a week before a lock expiration date is pretty bad and no excuse.  Any good LO will be on the phone with an appraiser asking where in the hell is at after 5 days.
It will suck to be that LO when review time comes.
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February 17
Profile picture for Rob Cochems
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I believe you with the extensions and have no reason to doubt you.

I didn't see that he added the fee on last minute, but if he did, then you can string him up.
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February 17
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Ok, Rob,

I won't string him up yet, but I'm not seeing how at this point in the game you can come back and say the appraisal came back short a week before a 45 day lock expires. At best, it's extremely poor time management!

As far as MLHL and extensions, you can trust me because I have been battling with them over my files since 12/4/08 when I locked the first of many. Some still have not closed and none have been charged to extend. If it truly was not his fault I absolutely guarantee that they would extend, unless he has other issues with them.
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February 17
Profile picture for Rob Cochems
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Gregorio,

I'll take your word for the extensions, as I haven't looked at them since our AE came in the office in December and said it was 25 day turnaround for underwrites. 

But it looks like the total adjustment could be .625% depending on the FICO, which is pretty close to the 3k...
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February 17
Ty is the best, hands down. I wish Bushwood was still around.
By the way, your Realtor designations are inspiring. Which one do you feel has added the most to your business prowess? Which acronym do consumers really fawn over? I find GRI gets most people in the northeast, but who knows... maybe they prefer CRS out west. 
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February 17
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

cant open that, but the cash out hit is .625 at 75% and .750 up to 80%.
$390,000 x .75 = $2925. He priced as a R&T. Thats why the story about LTV to add in the $2925. He should have already been charging $2437 in discount if not factored in the rate. He screwed up. 
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February 17
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Here are the Adjustments for MLHL's 1/7/09 Rate sheet.
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February 17
Ty Webb? I love that guy. Plays pool, golfs INSIDE his house, and pals around with Jack Hartounian. How do you know him Tom?
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February 17
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

Rob,
 
MLHL has a policy due to their current backlog where they take refi extensions case by case. They look at when the file was locked, submitted and determine if they should pay, the borrower should pay of if it should be split. They make this determination based on the reasons behind why the 45 days expired. If it expired because he failed to read the adjustments correctly, they won't give him the extension for free.

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February 17
Profile picture for Georgia Loans
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Since January 2009

 The increase for cash out from 75 LTV to 80LTV is .125 higher ( 700 score ). not $3,000 more. He screwed up. 
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February 17
Profile picture for Rob Cochems
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Nice spam Tom!

Gregorio,

I don't see how a pricing difference in LTV's would have any bearing on Met extended for free or not.
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February 17
Profile picture for Gregorio Denny
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Since January 2009

Rebekah,

It's a personal question but could you tell us your exact credit score, it does matter. I have pulled the 1/7 MLHL rate sheet so, with your credit score I'll be able to know what they should have known at the time.

Rob, If it was not the LO's fault MLHL would extend for free. I gave them at least 10 files in the last 2 months and they extended all of them.
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February 17
Profile picture for Rob Cochems
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Ok guys call me crazy here.  But she states her appraisal came in low at $520k, and she had originally wanted to pay off her 1st and Heloc that totaled $390k.

That would bring her total loan amount above 75% LTV.  There are additional hits for that.  I don't see any screw up in pricing on the L.O.'s part???
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February 17
The subordination was requested on 1/30.

My credit score is above 700.
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February 17

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