The Issue of Making a Low Offer

Okay, you have found an agent you are comfortable working with and you have been looking at many homes and have found one you would like to make an offer on.  You decided to make an offer--a really low offer.  You have looked at the tax records and the neighbors houses and have decided that you just want to see if it will fly.  Guess what, you are wasting everyone's time.  Why did you hire a Realtor to begin with??  We will advise you on what may be a good offer based on current sales.  You still want to go a little low, fine, but don't be shocked if the offer is rejected.  Why, you say?  Well, because buyers don't dictate the sales price--the market and the sellers do--regardless of the home's amenities or what the seller paid for it, or the tax appraisal, or even what is owed on the home--period, end of sentence.  So, if you really want to buy, be ready to do so.
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December 08 2009 - Knoxville
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Replies (27)

Profile picture for SoCal Engr
Nice...

What you are really saying is "don't waste my time when I could be serving koolaid to another sheople."

If you don't like people who submit lowball offers, make sure you present this as part of your initial presentation to the prospective buyer (i.e., "The way I work, I'll tell you what's reasonable and you should be willing to pay that. If you don't want to listen to me, then you should find another realtor.")

What's so hard about that approach? I'm sure you could narrow down your list of prospective buyers considerably.
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December 08 2009
Profile picture for frisky1
"Well, because buyers don't dictate the sales price--the market and the sellers do" - actually, the sellers don't dictate anything without input from the buyer.

The thing that totally killed lowball offers was the 8k bribe. Until then, buyers had the upper hand and could be fairly assured that no one else was looking at the house they offered on. Now, too many people are out there to be sure. Esp if you're looking at a good house. Garbage? maybe you still have a shot.

So you can thank the NAR and your friendly government for making houses a little more expensive.
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December 08 2009
Profile picture for sunnyview
I think that the definition of a low offer varies depending on who you talk to. I have made offers on houses that were significantly lower than asking. Most have had long market times with owners that have done stupid remodels that are worthless to anyone but them or unique houses with major repairs needed. I always have a clear rationale for the offer based on the cost of basic repairs. One of the owners in particular was offended when I offered her a price for her house that would have allowed the reconversion of two dens back into bedrooms plus a few basic repairs. She was angry and her comment to the realtor was that my plan would "destroy her office and quilting room." She refused my offer without a counteroffer. That house only sold for 20K more than my offer 3 years over three years later. The new owners are putting the two bedrooms back in that I ask for and gutting the kitchen completely to the tune of about 80K. So the upshot is that for 20K that owner held out for she had to hold the house for 2 years empty, have 1 year with tenants that didn't cover her entire mortgage, had to paint the exterior in that time and had to replace one of the solar panels for the pool heater.

As the owner, she had the prerogative not to accept my offer, but the market told her quite clearly over 3 years that her price was too high. I believe in reasonable offers based on the condition, desirability and location of the house. I do not waste my realtor's time lobbing lowballs, but I refuse to overpay just to suit an owners inflated sense of their house's worth.
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December 08 2009
The percentages are low but many sellers take offers considerably less than they're asking. Sometimes out of impatience, emergency, inability to make needed improvements, etc. Nobody's wasting your time Scott, it's your job. Just like it's your job when the offers are competing and and a great one comes in that makes you look good and your sellers really happy. Don't expect miracles on every deal. Also from the potential buyers standpoint comps and what sellers initially think are not set in stone arguements that the market will bear a certain price. Actually one of my investors criteria is 120+ days on the market just to weed out unneccessary competition. By the way I set expectations early with my sellers that soemone could could in with a very low offer but I'm still required to present it to them.best of luck
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December 08 2009
Profile picture for johnny2010
Scott, Buyers do dictate the price! Law of supply and demand, just like the stock market.
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December 08 2009

Any agent who has been doing their job for a while knows that lowball offers can work out. They should also know that many times, so called lowball offers that were rejected can be far better than what the final "accepted" price is should the house sit and sit and sit.

I have found that buyer's agents with this attitude tend to be the same ones who say things like, "Yeah I know it's low, I told them it would not fly." to the listing agent, clearly violating their duty to their client.

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December 09 2009
Profile picture for Eric142
Scott,

Let's do some basic math here:

Cost to make copy of pre-done forms to put offer on: de minimis ($0.25?)
Time to fill out form: 30 mins
Cost to send fax with offer: de minimis ($0.01?)
Cost to receive fax with accept/reject/counter: de minimis ($0.25?)
Time to inform low-ball offer maker offer rejected: 15 mins.
Time to show clients houses:  Not a factor, already sunk cost in finding the house to put an offer on.

Time wasted for lowball offer: 45 mins.
Monetary Cost: near zero, maybe a dollar.

Chance of low ball offer being rejected: 95% (1 in 20 chance of acceptance)
Agent commission for accepted offer: $3000+ as random number
Savings to buyer of accepted: say $50k+ as a random number.

So, rough financial gain (on average) of making a single lowball offer:
Agent: $3000 * (1 - 0.95) = $150
Buyer: $50,000 * (1 - 0.95) = $2,500

So an agent is making (on the average) $150 gain to fill out an offer with 5% chance of acceptance, that costs only about 45 mins of time to do.  That's making $200/hr.

The buyer is going to gain several thousand dollars for each one that is submitted, which is the only thing that matters if you really are acting as the buyers fiduciary.

Just to pile on, buyers ALWAYS determine what market value in free markets.  Any thing is only financially worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it today, no more and no less.
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December 09 2009
Profile picture for agentblu15
lowball offers also HELP the market in general, because they help sellers to see what the market is offering, and to adjust their pricing, and expectations, accordingly.  Even if the seller rejects an offer for being too low, it gives them at least some idea of what it being offered.  If they get a couple "lowball" offers in a row, it might help them realize that their home isn't worth what they think it is.  And eventually, they might lower the price or accept a low offer.  But, if the low offers are never submitted, the seller has no way of knowing that there's interest, but their price is too high--they might just think that you're not doing a good job finding buyers.

As an agent for the buyer or the seller, ANY offer is better than no offer at all.
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December 09 2009
Profile picture for kanzus
The 5 stages of grief (loss) might be useful in this discussion about offers and seller acceptance.

THE 5 STAGES OF GRIEF (LOSS)
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

I totally agree with agentblu15.  There is enormous inventory and competition on the selling side. This is a buyer's market in a recession economy where the housing market has gone bust.  Sellers needs to lower their expectations and be pragmatic and realistic about their selling situation.  If they can't sell before the federal tax credit expires, then expect greater difficulty in trying to sell after it goes away.

Buyers need to take market statistics into account when making an offer. They also need too use a lot of horse sense and streetsmarts. Only put an offer in that you feel (subjectively) is a good offer, regardless of what others may deem as not good enough or a low ball offer. I know of lots of selling agents that encourage buyers to put in any offer, even a low ball offer. They know perfectly well that their seller has way overpriced the house but refuses to bend.

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December 09 2009
Profile picture for SoCal Engr
"I know of lots of selling agents that encourage buyers to put in any offer, even a low ball offer. They know perfectly well that their seller has way overpriced the house but refuses to bend."

Isn't the selling price something that the selling agent has a say in, too?

Isn't bringing an understanding of the local market and values to the table part of the selling agent's role/value in the transaction?

If an agent really thinks their client is overpriced for the market and wasting everyone's time by refusing to accept that fact, isn't there some point-in-time where the responsible agent says "thanks but no thanks" to the listing? Or do the agents accept the listing at any price with the intent of "talking sense into the seller"?
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December 09 2009
Thats right. Don't cut into my commission! Thats what he is really saying. Buyers dictate market prices. Sellers ask for a price, that doesn't mean they will get it. There isn't any market if there aren't any buyers, just a bunch of people who wish someone was dumb enough to pay too much for their crap. Keep up your attitude and you won't be in business for long. Someone who really represents buyers (its a buyers market) will get your clientelle.
 With the market in freefall, prepare to see lots of LOWBALL offers. If you don't like it, get out of the biz. People are out of work. Lots of people do not have the money to pay rent, let alone pay what you would consider a reasonable price. As long as unemployment is high, prices will drop.
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December 09 2009
Profile picture for sunnyview
LOL kansus. That is exactly what I thought of when that seller refused to respond to my offer. She was obviously stuck on step 2..anger. That owner took one year for each step in the 5 stages of grief. Two on the market before my offer came and three after before she was ready to sell at a price about 90K lower than her original list price. Some people are slow to work through the process. 
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December 09 2009
Profile picture for nickasa1
What's a lowball offer?  More than 10% less?  More than 30K less?
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December 16 2009
Profile picture for EIUSMEN
What  the RE agent was trying to say is .that if the house is on the market does not mean that the seller HAS to sell.....
The deed of the house is still on the seller 's name....soooo....the seller has this right..... to reject your offer..... and you'll keep paying somebody else's mortgage.....hahaha.....by the time when you wake up and make up your mind....to buy a house ....it would be still unaffordable for you....and you'll end up paying rent ...all your life.....hahaha....
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December 16 2009
Profile picture for EIUSMEN
What  the RE agent was trying to say is .that if the house is on the market does not mean that the seller HAS to sell.....
The deed of the house is still on the seller 's name....soooo....the seller has this right..... to reject your offer..... and you'll keep paying somebody else mortgage.....hahaha.....but the time when you wake up and make up your mind....to buy a house ....it would be still unaffordable for you....and you'll end up paying rent ...all your life.....hahaha....
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December 16 2009
Profile picture for jonestim
"What's a lowball offer?  More than 10% less?  More than 30K less?"

It depends on the market where you are and whether the home is priced well to start.      If a house is worth $200k and the owner is asking $300k, I don't think a $200k offer is a "lowball", even though it is 33% less than asking.   If that same owner were asking $210k and you offered $175k it may be considered a lowball because the house is still worth $200k.

I too have thrown in some offers that the owners considered "lowballs."   One offer was for $300k on an ask of $375k.  They sold a year later for $280k.  My guess is it's worth about $245k today and still going down.
 
Another was on a short sale.  Offer of $351k on an ask of $450k.   It sold around 15 months later for $358k after foreclosing.  One with the exact same floor plan and build next door is still lingering on the market for $277k.  Still new, never lived in but it did have the fridge, stove, doorknobs and a couple lights removed before it foreclosed. 

Both of my lowballs would have been over paying.  We haven't put in an offer on a home in the last 20 months.  I have a pretty good idea of where my market is going over the next few years and I think any offer that were to get accepted now - even if it were lowball - would be paying to much by next year.
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December 16 2009
Profile picture for sunnyview
I think a lowball like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Like you, I have made offers that were refused only to have a lower offer accepted a year or more down the line. Often people who get what they feel is a "lowball" are not ready to sell or they feel that another buyer will come in with a higher offer. Other sellers are blind to the problems with their house. Some sellers may be right not to take the lower offer, but the market will always tell them when they are wrong because the house does not sell month after month as similar houses sell.
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December 16 2009
Actually, one thing I need to know from a prospective buyer is - are they willing to pay asking price for a property?

This may surprise some people, but there are Sellers who are aware of the marketplace, and price their homes appropriately. And if you have the idea that there's no "deal" unless you get x% off, then you don't know value, and are pretty likely to overpay no matter how many % you get off.
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December 16 2009
Profile picture for sunnyview
As a buyer, I am willing to pay full asking price and have done that in the past, but I am not willing to overpay. Properties that are a-typical, in questionable condition, in need of specific remodeling to be functional (ie closets have been removed so house will only appraise as a 2 bedroom when it has 4) etc. will not get a full price offer from me especially if they have been listed longer than the market average. The market has already clearly told the seller that the house is overpriced and who am I as a buyer to say the market is wrong by offering them full price.
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December 16 2009
So, you're aware that you can overpay by getting it for free, and get a screaming deal by paying 'way over asking price, right?
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December 16 2009
Profile picture for m12dance
Maybe... but the fact is that what determines the final price is what a seller is willing to sell at & depending on their circumstances; how long the house has been on the market, why they need to sell, & what they know that you don't know about the house, that low-ball offer may be just enough!  But hey what do I know...
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December 16 2009
I feel your frustration as a agent who has set this expectation up many times and some buyer just seem to think that certain things are going to work.. Well thats not the way it is. this is what i say "If you find a home that is competively priced and you submit a massive low ball offer they will reject it and someone else will have an in... is it really that important to you to possibly loose the home you have searched for that suits your needs and budget. here is the information in black and white I do suggest making an offer to support some negoiations yes but I don't want you to loose this home and I don't think you do either." So lets talk an offer again.

What you are really saying is "don't waste my time when I could be serving koolaid to another sheople." your time a valuable in your buisness so is ours. thats all he meant

If you don't like people who submit lowball offers, make sure you present this as part of your initial presentation to the prospective buyer (i.e., "The way I work, I'll tell you what's reasonable and you should be willing to pay that. If you don't want to listen to me, then you should find another realtor.") agreed on your listings as well have independent apprasiar come on out if they don't want to listen to your pricing suggestions.

What's so hard about that approach? I'm sure you could narrow down your list of prospective buyers considerably.  I save them alot of time and I save myself alot of time
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December 20 2009
Success in this business comes from working with motivated people - sellers who are motivated to sell, buyers who are motivated to buy.

This doesn't mean that people should overpay, but it does mean that agents are, in fact, wasting their time working with buyers who don't know anything about getting a deal except that they paid less than list price.

Also, I'd like to say "I'm sorry" if anyone's offended by the notion that a real estate agent's time and effort could possibly be "wasted" by "clients," but not enough to actually say that.

In fact, bargain hunters can be a massive waste of time. Clients without motivation simply don't close enough deals.
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December 20 2009
well put mack
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December 20 2009
Profile picture for sunnyview
I have great respect for my agent's time. As a client, I understand that agents work on commission and do not get paid until my deal closes. My agent is not expected to hold my hand, preview houses, provide information on school/zoning/permits or even call me until I have a house that I am serious about. When I shop, I get an email list of all listing in a zip and I drive at all houses for sale in my target zip codes. I know what I want and I know what a house is worth to me. My agent knows that I am qualified and ready to perform on every offer without any games. 

I agree that bargain hunters can be a massive waste of time and do not refer these types of client to agent's that I like. I do not need the lowest price, but I do seek value in my market. When the market was high, I told my agent that I was going to wait. No value available in my target areas means that my agent is only investing as much time as it takes to send me an automatic email of the MLS with my criteria. I show respect for my agent's time by doing my own research/legwork and by not making unreasonable offers or counteroffers on houses that waste everyone's time.
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December 20 2009
Profile picture for tawster
This post is a big bowl of false. If I am interested in a house, but have plenty of time and won't lose sleep over losing it... low-ball.

It's simple supply and demand. Buying a house is no different than shopping for an apple at a street corner market. They have a price in mind. You have a price in buy. You meet in the middle or it falls through.

Simple as that.
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June 09 2011
Every home and every buyer has a different story.  I advise many of my clients if they are looking for a home to live in and raise a family lets not put low ball offers on many homes.  If a buyer wants to do that then it seems to me they have not found the right house for them.  Do not buy a home simply because you feel like your getting a great price. Buy a home that fits your families criteria and a house you really feel you can make a home.  Once you find that home then it is time to truly analyze the value with your client.  If that value is much lower than the asking price then you have to come up with a strategy to get the seller sign off on your price. This is where the value of a real estate advisors comes through. It might be a strategy to come in with a real low offer way below your 'value', it might not.  All this needs to be discussed on a house by house basis. There is no clear way to negotiate the same on every home.
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March 13 2013
 
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