Profile picture for rhing

We are first time home buyers, looking for a house with no downpayment..

hi..we are first time home buyers.and we are really looking forward to have our own house to buy. we are currently renting in a friends house. Me and my husband have work but we still don't have much money for the down payment.. just wanting to ask if there is a chance that we could buy a house if no down payment needed. We never been late in rent. So, just want to ask about it.Thanks!
  • December 13 2009 - Kent
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Be a Good Neighbor. Be respectful and on-topic. No spam or self-promotion! See our Good Neighbor Policy.

 
 

Answers (47)

Get 3.5% towards closing costs paid by seller....hurry this offer ends Jan 31, 2010

The deposit you'll have to come up with by getting your family to gift you some money...

Must close by March...plus get the $8K first time home buyer tax credit. 

Does it get any better?  With low rates based on good credit, I can't imagine it getting better than now.

Hope this helps you realize your dream of reaching home ownership during these historic lows.
  • December 27 2009
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There are 100% financing options available for you depending where  you want to live. Some programs are based on the area and some are based on income levels.

Contact me directly and we can discuss what options are best for you.
  • December 25 2009
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Profile picture for nwhome.us

Here's a pretty specific idea for RHING to consider.

The House Key Federal Way program may still have some money available.  Federal Way is just to the west of Kent.  The summary information that I've included below must be confirmed by the WSHFC as the availability of funds and the qualifications for the funds may vary from the information that I've been given.

The purchase must be made within the Federal Way City limits in specific census tracts. The MAX purchase price is $450,000. Up to $50,000 may be available for a second mortgage to facilitate the purchase of, specifically, foreclosed or bank owned homes.  No payments or interest for a specific term described by the WSHFC.  The property must be discounted by the seller by 1% from the value of the appraisal.  The buyer's cash investment must be 1% or $1,000, whichever is greater.  Income limits are set by the number of individuals in the home. This is a draft outline of some of the terms that may be available under certain circumstances.  This information may change without notice. The buyer must attend pre purchase counseling that is described by the WSHFC.

The WSHFC trains specific loan companies and originators and the emphasis on the education of everyone involved is great.  Not all companies or originators know about or can process these loans.  Buyers need to go to the WSHFC website and sign up for a class and learn about the specifics of these programs.

Not all buyers will qualify for these loans or want to use them.  Good.  It is a red flag that may indicate that they need to move away from trying to buy a home and find another way to enjoy the living space that they have.

  • December 23 2009
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Profile picture for nwhome.us

Pas,

It is quite a stretch to deduce that I'm lying about my deductions.  It really brings into question your ability to reason on other issues.  Rest assured that I did include that amount in my own tax return.

The point that I'm making is that we don't know the poster's financial situation and that the real estate tax and mortgage interest are not the only deductions that are applied to our federal tax filings.  I actually agree that closing on a new home buyer with the RE deductions alone, and not supporting them in the way that you've done, can be misleading.  I don't do it because I believe in providing as much information as I can to a buyer and then letting them make their own decision.

The fact remains, however, that the program (WSHFC – House Key Plus) that we've recommended to this poster can potentially include household income levels to $84,300 in King County.  Someone at that income level may very well be using a schedule A. There is a possibility, when purchasing foreclosures or short sales to qualify for a $10,000 second mortgage at well below market interest rates.  One learns more about these programs by attending a required home buying class in their neighborhood.  It is a very legitimate tool for purchasing property as long as all of the other ingredients fall into place.

So I don't agree with throwing the baby out with the bath water, especially when I don't know ALL of the facts about a buyer's financial position. I think that it over simplifies the issue to say NEVER consider the tax consequences and takes away from the responsibility of educating the buyer completely so that they can make a well informed decision.

  • December 23 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
No compensation for me.  I only come here for stress relief from a hectic job and to collect data for some personal studies for some potential future opportunities.
  • December 21 2009
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Profile picture for Gio N
Wow what a waste of website real estate space on this blog!

The only thing I found informative on this chat is to research agents before consider them representing me. Good call Arnold on helping Mr. Rainwater inform better by preforming as an agent first.

Very entertaining this thread has been! 

Arnold, my son is actually looking for a home and saw that you are selling a community in Kenmore that is exclusively offered to first time home buyers and lower income individuals with zero down. Can you tell me more about this opportunity? 

  • December 20 2009
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Alright already!

Pasadenan I hope you're somehow benefiting from all of this rambling. I hope you're affiliated with a non profit or a way that you're being compensated for your time here on Zillow. Nevertheless, thank you for be so informative. 

@ Jeff Rainwater: My fellow industry associate. I'm getting aggravated with the false info you've been presenting in past posts on Zillow. I always do my research before posting on Zillow due to the assassination attempts on these threads.

I just did a NWMLS search on you.....are you even actively practicing real estate sales as an agent?! "No Results" what gives?! 

Now, Zillow please just terminate this rambling thread!
"Take me out kobe style! Blow me up Tom"-Tom leykis     
  • December 20 2009
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Again you are wrong Jeff.  the financning allows for 100% of the appraised value.  The extra 2% is the funding fee making it a total of 102%.  It is jsut coincedental that your borrowers were able to get 2% towards closing costs.  There is no magic way to structure the loan.  It is actually very black and white. If the appraised value is higher than the purchase price, those excess funds can be used towards closing.
  • December 20 2009
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Joe, I think what you are saying is that I said "102% of the purchase price" as opposed to "102% of the appraised value". yes, its value not purchase price. My mistake for poor wording. Honestly little difference though because there is no reason to be buying for more than the value in this market. But I did want to clairify that.

  • December 20 2009
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Profile picture for RC01
Case closed! On Friday I mentioned that not every Realtor nor every lender is willing or able to help you determine your eligibility for down payment assistance and made some suggestions how to find help.

In the 3 days and 19 entries since then, respondents have pounded their chests over everything from the relative value of your potential tax savings from the mortgage interest deduction, your medical deductions, guesstimates of your tax rate, rates of home appreciation, 100% vs. 102% financing and the best time to buy. Everything except "you may be eligible for down payment assistance and I can help you learn what, if any options you have."

Why take on the burden of financing 100% of the cost of your home until you find out whether you're able for one or more down payment assistance programs? Some of these programs are conditional grants meaning after 5, 10, 15 years of ownership, the loan is forgiven. Others require repayment only upon either, converting the home to rental property, refinancing or selling the home. That usually means no monthly payments and a rate of 0%. Some can be combined to create an even larger down payment. Free money!

Valid issues have been raised which you need to consider. Do you have enough cash reserves to meet unexpected emergencies? Is this the right time to buy- will prices decline further? Will you owe more than the value of the home after borrowing 100% or more of its value?

You may be able to minimize some of these issues by availing yourselves of home buyer assistance, if you are eligible.

Please look hard to find service providers who are knowledgeable about these tools. 

Buyer beware and good luck!
  • December 20 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
No John, your situation as a "Realtor" is entirely different; and now you just admitted that you were lying about your $11k medical expenses too!

No, there is NEVER a case for a low income buyer with no down payment to be using schedule "A" itemization as an excuse to buy.

Why don't you learn to do your taxes yourself before trying to sell something that makes absolutely no sense?
  • December 20 2009
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Yeah, that's not in every case, but yes I have had clients able to get 2% towards closing costs with USDA loans financed at 102%. While I appreciate your somewhat crude criticizm of my knowledge, perhaps you should be trying to find out why other loan officers can make it happen while you can't?

  • December 20 2009
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100% LTV of appraisal Value upto 102% LTV appraisal value can only be exceed by gurantee fee.  (Gurantee fee 2% of loan amount).  closing cost and repair can be financed upto appraisal value, gurantee fee can be loaned
  • December 19 2009
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Jeff;

Stick to selling houses because USDA guidelines are not your specialty.  It is 100% of the appraised value not 102% of the purchase price.  The extra 2% is a funding fee much like a VA loan that allows for no monthly MI.  If the appraised value is over the purchase price that is where you can finance some closing costs.  Not only are there geographic limits but also income limits.
  • December 19 2009
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Hi. I'm an agent in your area. One of my loan officers was talking to me about new zero down loans so yeah they are a possiblity now. What area are you looking to buy in? There are some USDA areas around the Seattle suburbs where we can get rural loans. For instance, in Snohomish county, basically anything east of highway 9 qualifies.

Here is a website you can use to help you tell if a home you are looking at would qualify...
http://eligibility.sc.egov.usda.gov/eligibility/welcomeAction.do?pageAction=sfp&NavKey=property@11

The reason that is important is because those loans we can finance at 102% of the purchase price (giving you some funds for closing costs too!). That said, I did have a hard time getting that approved on moble homes so that is something to consider avoiding if you are wanting that kind of loan. If you've got a home in mind just let me know and im happy to show it to you since im in the area. Any way I can help, just let me know. Best of luck to you!
  • December 19 2009
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Profile picture for nwhome.us
To keep the analysis in the same fruit box, let's keep the income at the same level as where it started: someone looking to get into their first home and in the 10% bracket.  They may have some heavy medical expenses also, maybe they have business income, who knows?
  • December 19 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
Sorry, I carelessly wrote the wrong percentage; nothing up to 7.5% of adjusted gross can be deducted for medical expenses.  So, if adjusted gross is $150k, the first $11.25k is NOT deductible, so there is NOTHING to claim on schedule A at all!  You would have to spend about TWICE that before you had ANY benefit from itemizing as compared to the standard deduction.
  • December 18 2009
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That $11k medical expenses did not "clear" your "standard deduction", and you know that!  For medical expenses, the first 2% of your income spent as medical expenses is NOT deductible!

So, as a Realtor, your situation is entirely different than a couple that has lower income and now down payment!

So, say your adjusted gross after business expenses is $150k, which is not unreasonable considering how expensive houses are, and what 2% or higher Realtor commission would be on each sale.  (Sure, you may only get 1.5%, but if you are a good Realtor, why are you not negotiating with your broker for more?)  %2 of $150k = $3k.  So only $8k of your medical expenses is deductible.  Thus, if that is the only thing you have to itemize and you are married, the standard deduction is more.
  • December 18 2009
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Even if you could and did, do you have enough of a cushion in case something goes wrong?

Furnace goes out in February, can you afford to replace it?

One of you gets their hours cut, can you make the payments?

Will your payments be higher than your rent?

We're not asking a lot. Just, can you first put aside six months of payments before you commit to THIRTY YEARS OF MORTGAGE PAYMENTS?!!!!
  • December 18 2009
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Profile picture for nwhome.us
I guess that the delicate thing about discussing tax ramifications, when the poster asked about zero-down financing, is that we don't know their tax situation.
I can only use my own situation where I had just over 11 K in medical and dental expenses last year, which sort of cleared the standard deduction out of the way.  So in addition to the current buyer credit and the other interest and property tax expenses, maybe I should be buying a new home this year.
I would need a lender who would overlook the profession that I'm in, though.
  • December 18 2009
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I am not sure where you are looking for a home; however USDA has a 102% financing program available here in Florida. Click Here For an Eligibility Map  Don't be fooled by the name!   Fishhawk Ranch, a 5000 home "Green" community, near Tampa, FL qualifies.  The days of the "Anything Goes" mortgage are gone, but there are still some great programs out there, especially for first time buyers : )
  • December 18 2009
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pasadena, you are  a wealth of information:)
  • December 18 2009
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Thank you for that Pasadenan.
  • December 18 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
And checking the tax tables for 2009; that income level is only in the 14% tax rate.  Thus, calculating again; $188 x 14% = $26.32 for the first year; $2.19 per month.

Following year, $7 for the year, or 58 cents per month.

But the standard deduction would have changed again, and the tax tables changed again, so, no benefit for itemizing at all the next year.

And if they bought in the right price range to begin with, no benefit of itemizing at all to begin with.

Again, any Realtor ® that is telling people in the low-tier buying category that an interest tax deduction is a benefit to them is knowingly lying to their "customer", and intentionally violating their "code of ethics".

And for them to state it is a "tax benefit" or "tax reduction" when they are hit with an additional $2500 taxes every year, and get less than $25 reduction on their Federal income tax... well I call that pure "fraud", and worthy of filing a complaint with their local board to get their license revoked.
  • December 17 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
Ok, I just looked up the 2009 "standard deduction" for married couples, for April 15th filing...

It is $11,400 for this year.

So, revising those numbers:
$188 over the "standard deduction" for the first year; at 16% tax rate; Government returns only $30.08 for the year additional for itemizing as compared to the standard deduction anyone can claim without any deductible items.  That is $2.50 per month.  So whoever said $250 per month was only off by a factor of 100 times.

And the second year?  $50 over the "standard deduction", at 16% tax rate, government returns additional $8 for the year, or 67 cents per month.

And the third year?  Standard deduction is more, so you would lose money if you itemized.
  • December 17 2009
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Anyway, borrow $183k at 5%, interest paid the first year is $9,088.  Property tax for a typical unit in that price range in that area; $2500.  So, interest plus property tax for schedule A itemization, $11,588.   Standard deduction in 2010 for married couple; approximately $11,000.  So, tax rate on $588 benefit for the first year.  Income to qualify for a $183k loan; about $36.5k annual.  Tax rate for married couple at that income range; 16%.  Thus government returns an additional 16% x $588 = $94 for the year.  Divide that by 12 for the monthly benefit, = $7.83 cents per month.

And the next year $8950 interest, $2500 property tax; Schedule A itemized deduction 11,450.  Less Standard deduction --> $450; at 16% tax rate, $73 returned for the year, or $6.12 per month.

What a "good deal" the government is offering these low income buyers!  They can buy a pair of pants at the thrift store every month for that $6.12.  Never mind that it will cost them $300 to replace the water heater when it leaks, or $800 to repair a roof leak, or $120 to get a rotor-router to snake a sewer line.

The "tax credit" is not for those buying in the low tier; it is for people that are in the 33% to 35% percent tax bracket buying homes closer to a million.  And really it is not for them either; it is just a give-away to the lenders.

Besides, this family with no down payment should be looking in the $100k to $120k range, not the $185k range.

  • December 17 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile

OK, here is the tiered trend data for Kent; both zip code 98030 and 98032.  Being a buyer without down payment, they would be looking in the lower tier; not at the median.



For full size image to read numbers, paste the link into your browser address bar:
http://images3.zillow.com/is/image/i0/i1/i9544/ISsnr45la44yar.jpg

So, for the low tier, both zip codes, about $132k median value in Jan 1999.  If 3% annual housing inflation rate; would be $182.7k in Jan 2010.

Present low tier median, about $214k.  That means over inflated still by about $31k, the "result" of the government "incentive" not letting prices continue to correct to their equilibrium level, but only delaying the correction until the incentive ends.  That means still 17% over inflated, unless you really think the true housing inflation rate was 4.6%, in which case the correction is completed.
  • December 17 2009
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The property tax is deductible too.
  • December 17 2009
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I wouldn't bank on prices are still over inflated 10k-30k. It strictly depends on the area, how motivated the seller, etc. It also depends on your price point you are looking to puchase a home for.  If you are going really high i.e. 800k home in Snohomish, I'd tell you to wait. Guessing that is not the case though as you are asking about zero down programs. So realistically 250k in Snohomish, you probably won't see another price drop unless you have a very motivated seller that has equity to give up & has to go right away with whatever priced offer they get. 
  • December 17 2009
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
There will always be down payment assistance programs for "very low", "low" and "moderate" income.  Check with your local housing office in your local city or county.  Make an appointment an sit down with them.  They have no "vested interest", just government money to give away; much of it from "redevelopment funds", "block grant funds", "tax increment funds", "affordable housing ordinances" and matching HUD grants.

So, there is no "rush to buy" while prices are still over inflated $10k to $30k.

But that lie about $250 per month "tax benefit" needs to be exposed for the lie that it is...

The "standard deduction" for a married couple in 2008 was $10,900.  That means you have to spend MORE in mortgage interest per year than $10,900 to get ANY tax benefit.  And don't forget to subtract out that approximately $3500 you have to PAY in PROPERTY TAX from that "tax benefit".

So, your taxable income is in about the 10% range, or perhaps as high as the 25% range.  In order to pay $10,900 or more in interest the FIRST year at 5% annual, 30 year fixed; you would need to borrow about $220 thousand!  Then your first year, the amount over your "standard deduction" (your real benefit), is about $26.27.  Multiply that by your tax rate.  We'll be GENEROUS; say you are in the 25% range.  That means you get $6.67 back from the IRS for the YEAR.  Divide that by 12 for your "monthly benefit", and it comes to 55 cents!  NOT $250!

And the next year?   You've paid down the principal, so you are now paying less than the "standard deduction", thus you don't itemize, but take the standard deduction.  And of course as a renter, you still take the standard deduction.  And you pay off your loan, you still take the standard deduction.

And as we are talking about a home in the $100k range, you can't even begin to talk about a loan in the over $220k range!

Realtors ® really need to stop spreading those distortions of truth that only mislead the unsuspecting.
  • December 17 2009
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