Which one of these people will make the most money on a risk reward basis?

Profile picture for mrgenius

I'm talking about a bright energetic person with a lot of charm I'm a salesperson by trade.  For the past several years I have been a professional poker player.  I'm working on my marketing plan and I plan to specialize in the preforeclosure area.  I'm wondering in what occupation one could make the most money in a) mortgage broker b) realtor c) or investor.   Posting this on several forums.   Please let me know.

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September 07 2008 - US

Replies (10)

Profile picture for sunnyview
Mortgage brokers and realtors both make the bulk of their money in good RE markets and make much less when markets are down. For good producers good/bad markets average out into a good living. Everyone else gives up during the bad markets. Investors can make money when the market is up or down, but you know the saying you have to have money to make money. And as an investor you better be sharp because bad investors don't stay in business for long.

If you are a naturally good salesman, maybe you would be better off looking into commercial RE. It is usually more stable overall and there are still large deals to be made even in down markets.
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September 07 2008

I would say the best would be a combonation of two.  While in generalities I would agree with Sunnyview, I believe that a smart and innovative RE person will make good in a downward trending market.  The reason they will do good in a down market is that they will be forced to get creative when other's don't. A good Realtor knows their clients needs and can get it for them in any market.

 

From an investors standpoint this is the kind of market you want.  This is the best time to get in on the best valued properties.

 

So to answer your question I think the best position to be in is to be a Realtor who is also an Investor.

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September 07 2008
Profile picture for mrgenius

Chuta you win the prize.  That is kind of what I was thinking.

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September 07 2008

the investors occupation is irrelevant. the skill set necessary includes being able to evaluate, risk, return on capital, probability of several risk based outcomes, effective return on capital, and finding intrinsic value.

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September 08 2008
Profile picture for sunnyview
The occupation is not really irrelevant if their is a commission involved. An investor/realtor may save a minimum of 3% on each deal and can get direct MLS access to keep up to date on all properties as soon as they hit the market. An investor/mortgage broker can shop all their own rates and may be able to save a commission cost and find the best loan available. A combo would definitely work, but be careful about keeping a high degree of professionalism if you do the combo. Getting sued is not fun and it is expensive. So keep your ethics clean.
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September 08 2008
Profile picture for sunnyview
Sorry. I meant to say "there" not "their" in the first line. I should proof better, I do know better.
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September 08 2008

I have to admit I misread the question. I am sorry.

Depending on the state you live in, the court may see you as an expert when you represent yourself and hold you to a higher standard than the general public. In WA agents are held to the same standard as an attorney practicing real estate law. Many E&O insurance companies will not cover the insured for self representation. I am a licensed RE agent. I never represent myself on the acquisition or disposition of any of my own property. the commissions are taxed at the earned income rate.

In WA, when an investor sells property within one year and had work done on the property, the investor must have a valid general contractor’s license.

WA has a new distressed homeowner law that has an impact on agents representing sellers and buyers and investors dealing directly with the seller.

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September 08 2008
Profile picture for TeamworkHomes

Why not all 3 together?  The catch is you need to focus on doing what you do best, i.e. bringing in business, while let your team or co-workers do the fulfillment part.  If you don't have a team, then outsource.  Of course, you have to disclose everything upfront with your sellers/buyers, to avoid potential lawsuits.  In CA, a licensed agent can sell real estate, originate loans and manage properties.  Only in FHA transactions, you can't be both the agent and loan originator.

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September 10 2008
Profile picture for Rod Dennis No Fees

Most real estate investors acquire property and hold until there is a market change, therefore they do not produce immediate income. Realtors and Mortgage Brokers on the other hand are handling transactions on a continuous basis and therefore producing cashflow.  A Realtor or Mortgage Broker that also acquires investment properties along the way is creating short term income while also developing a portfolio of properties that can grow in value while taking advantage of the tax incentives.  A mortgage person has the skills to understand the time value of money, taxation and cash flow.  So a licensed realtor with a mortgage license who is buying investment properties is the ideal.

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September 10 2008

Most investors hold real property as long term investments likely qualifying for capital gain tax treatment instead of short term which is usually taxed at the earned income rate. Flipping generally qualifies for the earned income tax rate. The investor’s actions and intent do not support holding long term. Any high paying job you are good at will produce a continual paycheck while you acquire assets for your portfolio. Being an agent, broker, or full time investor may qualify you or a spouse for Real estate Professional Status. You need to consult your CPA to follow all the rules. The IRS is clamping down on abuse of the status. Mortgage people aren’t necessarily better than anyone else with Time Value of Money. I’d say about 80% of the lender cold calls and SPAM I receive come from lenders you barely understand the sale pitch material from their company. They don’t understand Time Value of Money. They erroneously pitch that paying down the principal contributes to return on capital. (that is a clear indication they don’t understand TVM). They don’t understand indexes, spot rates, margins, YSP, inverted yield curve, etc.

An investor who holds a real estate license or lender license may have additional problems to worry about and risk. Get a real estate license because you really want to sell real estate. Get a lender license because you really want to be a lender. Otherwise, surround yourself with excellent advisors. Read everything you can. You are going to find a lot of crap and a few good books. Most real estate guru books are regurgitating business school and the Internal Revenue Code at such a general level to be useless to a specific investor. The books will give you many ideas to ask your professional team of advisors.

 

In the long run, you will accumulate more as an investor being an investor than an agent or lender also trying to be an investor.

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September 12 2008
 
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