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Answers (21)
- LouisAquino
- Contributions:4
debnroo--not to worry! I heaved a huge sigh of relief when my home sold early this month for $40,000 above the Zillow zestimate. My buyer's mortgage company obviously appraised it at the sale price or higher, as they would not have been granted a mortgage without a price adjustment on my part or putting more money down on their end.
So based on that as well as the comments, the rolling of the eyes, and the laughs I get when I mention Zillow to real estate professionals, I'd say you can rest assured that Zillow data is irrelevant and non-substantial in the realm of things.
So based on that as well as the comments, the rolling of the eyes, and the laughs I get when I mention Zillow to real estate professionals, I'd say you can rest assured that Zillow data is irrelevant and non-substantial in the realm of things.
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3463
I live in a very similar market debnroo. Not much bubbliness, compared to the four super-whacked states. My Zestiguess seems to be affected the most by homes that aren't really comps, selling in a richer neighborhood behind mine. Mine is about 40K high, so I don't complain much about it. I just giggle. But, I feel for you.
Did the look you took, at the rapidly increasing neighbors house, happen before, or after, the algorithmic recalculations? Does your neighborhood make more sense now?
Did the look you took, at the rapidly increasing neighbors house, happen before, or after, the algorithmic recalculations? Does your neighborhood make more sense now?
- debnroo
- Contributions:11
One of the challenges in this region is the lack of good comps. There are 82 homes in this subdivision all built between 2004 and 2009. Most 2006-08. Immediately adjacent are subdivisions that are either older by 40+ years, lower quality (by about half or less the value), or having twice or more the acreage.
We are in an area that is surrounded by both intentional open space (publicly owned land - a good thing, imho), as well as old-school farmland, as well as mining that becomes water storage ponds.
So, to find truly comparable RE, you either have to have sales in this subdivision, or you have to reach pretty far out geographically, or you start using homes with similar things like number of bedrooms. But, when using comps from the subdivision immediately to the south, for instance, you are generally talking homes that are on 1 acre lots (vs 1/4 acre), built in the 1960s, with small closets, no AC, and often 2 car garages as a luxury - many 1-car garages. So, a 3BR, 2BA house in one is really an apple to the orange in this subdivision.
All that said, they have to have comps of some kind. And, that is the rub - it seems from my experience with many who bought into this neighborhood, the RE agents varied wildly in their ability to valuate homes. I literally fired the agent recommended by the builder, as she was a complete idiot, and I know she worked with more than 20 of the buyers in this neighborhood.
One of the things I noticed about our area is that we never had a bubble to begin with. So, while other places were blowing up in value, we just had a minor increase of maybe 5%. Therefore, our downturn has been equally mild. We have another house in the adjacent neighborhood, and the value there is down slightly. Meanwhile, in this new neighborhood, values have mostly increased a modest 5% or so. The key is that these homes are built very very well, and the quality of the people who moved in is pretty strong too - all very friendly and conscientious.
We are in an area that is surrounded by both intentional open space (publicly owned land - a good thing, imho), as well as old-school farmland, as well as mining that becomes water storage ponds.
So, to find truly comparable RE, you either have to have sales in this subdivision, or you have to reach pretty far out geographically, or you start using homes with similar things like number of bedrooms. But, when using comps from the subdivision immediately to the south, for instance, you are generally talking homes that are on 1 acre lots (vs 1/4 acre), built in the 1960s, with small closets, no AC, and often 2 car garages as a luxury - many 1-car garages. So, a 3BR, 2BA house in one is really an apple to the orange in this subdivision.
All that said, they have to have comps of some kind. And, that is the rub - it seems from my experience with many who bought into this neighborhood, the RE agents varied wildly in their ability to valuate homes. I literally fired the agent recommended by the builder, as she was a complete idiot, and I know she worked with more than 20 of the buyers in this neighborhood.
One of the things I noticed about our area is that we never had a bubble to begin with. So, while other places were blowing up in value, we just had a minor increase of maybe 5%. Therefore, our downturn has been equally mild. We have another house in the adjacent neighborhood, and the value there is down slightly. Meanwhile, in this new neighborhood, values have mostly increased a modest 5% or so. The key is that these homes are built very very well, and the quality of the people who moved in is pretty strong too - all very friendly and conscientious.
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3463
No, but luv ya and all, I don't believe they are being read by disgruntled owners, perspective mislead Buyer's, or baffled Sellers, 100 mil at a time, either.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26854
@Hamp: are you doing CMAs on 100,000,000 residences 3x a week to earn the RE genius status?
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3463
This is great thread. Thanks debnroo for posting and following up later. This is the kind of feedback loop that matters. I was thinking about the timing issue when I read your, initial return posts earlier today. I almost mentioned it, but my known bias toward the effectiveness of Zillow's valuation kept me from doing so, as I didn't have time to research, and verify. I try to research, and verify, before I spew my opinion on others, in public.
The thing that is apparent to me is that maybe Zillow weights the recentness of a "sale" way to heavily, or something. Your neighbor's home that just changed hands in April, and went up $60K, apparently because of the "sale", is contradictory to all notions of market value, except circa 2005 in bubble-land.
I wonder if that was an algo-dart-throw "timing" thing, or does Zillow's stats model actually propose that the house went up $60K because it sold, for $60K less. Was there another supposed comp, that really wasn't comparable, that caused this, or is Zillow's algo-guesser that goofy?
The good news for me, is that the more I know about Zestimates, the more necessary I feel, as an Agent. If that's the best that a computer with five full time geeks, can do, then I'm a RE genius.
Rascoff said Zillow Zestie's would have helped slow the bubble. Not judging by this example, it wouldn't have. It would have turned a bubble into a snowball rolling down hill in sticky Colorado powder.
The thing that is apparent to me is that maybe Zillow weights the recentness of a "sale" way to heavily, or something. Your neighbor's home that just changed hands in April, and went up $60K, apparently because of the "sale", is contradictory to all notions of market value, except circa 2005 in bubble-land.
I wonder if that was an algo-dart-throw "timing" thing, or does Zillow's stats model actually propose that the house went up $60K because it sold, for $60K less. Was there another supposed comp, that really wasn't comparable, that caused this, or is Zillow's algo-guesser that goofy?
The good news for me, is that the more I know about Zestimates, the more necessary I feel, as an Agent. If that's the best that a computer with five full time geeks, can do, then I'm a RE genius.
Rascoff said Zillow Zestie's would have helped slow the bubble. Not judging by this example, it wouldn't have. It would have turned a bubble into a snowball rolling down hill in sticky Colorado powder.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26854
@debnroo: I suspect it was coincidence as roll out of new versions of the Zestimate are a very very big process (I'm observing by practice that it would years of work).
I'm pleased to hear the new version improved your neighborhood values.
I'm pleased to hear the new version improved your neighborhood values.
- debnroo
- Contributions:11
Oh, didn't see the ability to post a screen shot. So, 2/1/10, the value of our home was set at $348k. 1350 Bubbling Brook Court, Fort Collins, CO.
Take a look now - you can't find a value anywhere near that amount before or after that date. Meanwhile, our neighbor's house, which had sold in 2010 for about the same price he bought in 2008, was suddenly worth $100k more than the price paid according to Zillow. That's when I wrote to them.
Sounds like it may be coincidence that they applied the new algorithm near the same timeframe. It may not be that my email caused the reformulation, but it appeared that way due to the timing. Hard to know for certain, but this is news to me and I believe it makes sense given the experience of others.
Take a look now - you can't find a value anywhere near that amount before or after that date. Meanwhile, our neighbor's house, which had sold in 2010 for about the same price he bought in 2008, was suddenly worth $100k more than the price paid according to Zillow. That's when I wrote to them.
Sounds like it may be coincidence that they applied the new algorithm near the same timeframe. It may not be that my email caused the reformulation, but it appeared that way due to the timing. Hard to know for certain, but this is news to me and I believe it makes sense given the experience of others.
@debnroo
I actually agree with you and feel very strongly that zillow does make changes exactly as you stated. I told then 2 weeks ago about errors on 2 homes in my neighborhood and surprize a few days later the zestimates for both these homes increased substantially, as did the 'range values'. It is inconceivable that these changes were anything but a result of the email communication I sent zillow highlighting the erroneous zestimates for these homes.
I actually agree with you and feel very strongly that zillow does make changes exactly as you stated. I told then 2 weeks ago about errors on 2 homes in my neighborhood and surprize a few days later the zestimates for both these homes increased substantially, as did the 'range values'. It is inconceivable that these changes were anything but a result of the email communication I sent zillow highlighting the erroneous zestimates for these homes.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26854
@debnroo: In the middle of June, Zillow did revise the Zestimate algorithm and the new algorithm was applied retroactively several years (back to 2006 if I remember properly). Some people were delighted as their Zestimate increased, some furious as the Zestimate decreased, and a similar whole variety of responses to the historical revision.
So, what you say makes sense.
You can post screen shots on this advice section if you wish. Click on the little colored picture icon in the top row of this text box.
So, what you say makes sense.
You can post screen shots on this advice section if you wish. Click on the little colored picture icon in the top row of this text box.
- debnroo
- Contributions:11
I am not suggesting anything. It's a fact. I've got multiple emails from 2010 stating the value of our home is below any number currently on our chart.
It's not possible that both those emails are accurate, and that they did not go back and revise values from the past.
I don't believe this forum allows posts of screen shots, but this can be easily proven by multiple emails showing values 10% or more below the lowest value that is currently on the chart.
It's not possible that both those emails are accurate, and that they did not go back and revise values from the past.
I don't believe this forum allows posts of screen shots, but this can be easily proven by multiple emails showing values 10% or more below the lowest value that is currently on the chart.
@debnroo
you need to send details to Mr Spencer Rascoff the CEO of Zillow as he states that it is not possible to change a zestimate. Are you by any chance suggesting that he is not telling the truth when he made that statement?
you need to send details to Mr Spencer Rascoff the CEO of Zillow as he states that it is not possible to change a zestimate. Are you by any chance suggesting that he is not telling the truth when he made that statement?
- Tug of War
- Contributions:1978
Thank you very much for sharing your experience/opinion and returning
updating everyone..it is appreciated
updating everyone..it is appreciated
- debnroo
- Contributions:11
I would like to let everyone know that after submitting the claim to Zillow, they quietly adjusted the valuation on our home. But, not just from April 26, 2011 forward. No, they went backwards in time, and adjusted the entire chart going back to the moment it was built.
My best guess is that some input into the size, quality, or details of this home were incorrect, and the correction caused a recalculation across the entire value history. The best I can say is that it's a good idea to speak up when things seem awry. While it's clear real estate agents and other professionals don't like Zillow, the reality is that it is used by many, including buyers.
As an owner of a 2nd rental home that my renter has tried to negotiate for purchase, I can tell you that a low Zillow number definitely gives a buyer a reason to start negotiating from that baseline. It's worth your time to contact Zillow if it seems out of line, even if a real estate agent can explain it away.
My best guess is that some input into the size, quality, or details of this home were incorrect, and the correction caused a recalculation across the entire value history. The best I can say is that it's a good idea to speak up when things seem awry. While it's clear real estate agents and other professionals don't like Zillow, the reality is that it is used by many, including buyers.
As an owner of a 2nd rental home that my renter has tried to negotiate for purchase, I can tell you that a low Zillow number definitely gives a buyer a reason to start negotiating from that baseline. It's worth your time to contact Zillow if it seems out of line, even if a real estate agent can explain it away.
@Louis
"Zillow a useless tool in the real estate market. I can see from all the negative comments and concerns that I am not the only one outraged by this site"
your comment is spot on and the sooner Zillow is either properly Regulated, or accepts that it cannot impose it's intrusive and inaccurate zestimates on homeowners, with no right of appeal is totally unacceptable to a fair minded society.
"Zillow a useless tool in the real estate market. I can see from all the negative comments and concerns that I am not the only one outraged by this site"
your comment is spot on and the sooner Zillow is either properly Regulated, or accepts that it cannot impose it's intrusive and inaccurate zestimates on homeowners, with no right of appeal is totally unacceptable to a fair minded society.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:25139
"Homes are automatically placed on Zillow and they are continuously devalued or overvalued to where their information is rendered useless and counterproductive to any real estate transaction."
Although I don't really use the Zestimate myself, I would generally disagree that the Zestimate is counterproductive in RE. Buyers know what they want to pay, sellers should know what their house is worth on the market and agents should have no issues explaining the listing price on a house based on the MLS info.
What a house is worth is not dictated by by sellers or agent, it is set by what buyers are willing to pay. Buyer who know how to use all the information on Zillow are better informed and are more likely to gather all the information before they make an offer. Zillow also provides and excellent marketing platform for property help bring those buyers in the door.
Although I don't really use the Zestimate myself, I would generally disagree that the Zestimate is counterproductive in RE. Buyers know what they want to pay, sellers should know what their house is worth on the market and agents should have no issues explaining the listing price on a house based on the MLS info.
What a house is worth is not dictated by by sellers or agent, it is set by what buyers are willing to pay. Buyer who know how to use all the information on Zillow are better informed and are more likely to gather all the information before they make an offer. Zillow also provides and excellent marketing platform for property help bring those buyers in the door.
- LouisAquino
- Contributions:4
Zillow Zestimates are an ABOMINATION in my opinion and an extreme disservice to sellers and buyers. Homes are automatically placed on Zillow and they are continuously devalued or overvalued to where their information is rendered useless and counterproductive to any real estate transaction. This in turn instigates dissent and anxiety among buyers and sellers, and renders Zillow a useless tool in the real estate market. I can see from all the negative comments and concerns that I am not the only one outraged by this site, and I don't why the real estate industry continues to tolerate this.
- Allison Klein, "allisonklein"
- Contributions:51
This is exactly why you need a professional real estate agent to evaluate the market value of your home. Zillow is just a formula and does not take into account certain upgrades and does not know the local market as well as a local real estate agent. If you need recent sold comps let me know and I can get them for you.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26854
You can evaluate the comps used for each of the properties. They are selected by a computer using zillow's selection criteria. Manual selection by you, the owner (or an agent) tends to come up with better choices.
- debnroo
- Contributions:11
This is a new neighborhood, built between 2004-2009. There are 82 homes. Ours was built in 2007, and it's slightly above average for the neighborhood in size/value. Home facts are correct on our listing.
I know most of the neighbors and their homes, and theirs are accurate too. Right next door to us, is a home that sold in 2010 for under the price paid in 2008 by about $10,000. The reason is due to the seller moving back to a job in Maryland, and he was in a rush. Took it on the chin. Meanwhile, the Zillow value went UP by over $60,000, while ours went down over $60,000. Ours is a 4BR, 4BA, with 4-car garage on a lot that is 25% larger - not to mention a finished basement, and extremely well developed landscape and two raised bed gardens.
Theirs is a 3BR, 2BA, with no finished basement. It sold for $65k less than ours - twice. Now Zillow has it valued at $120k more than ours.
There is no possible way that house is worth more than ours, no way, no how. And, $120k more is just added crazy.
Now, there may be some random comp somewhere nearby that went into foreclosure, but that is just impossible that it would affect us negatively, while they are somehow gaining ground.
I know most of the neighbors and their homes, and theirs are accurate too. Right next door to us, is a home that sold in 2010 for under the price paid in 2008 by about $10,000. The reason is due to the seller moving back to a job in Maryland, and he was in a rush. Took it on the chin. Meanwhile, the Zillow value went UP by over $60,000, while ours went down over $60,000. Ours is a 4BR, 4BA, with 4-car garage on a lot that is 25% larger - not to mention a finished basement, and extremely well developed landscape and two raised bed gardens.
Theirs is a 3BR, 2BA, with no finished basement. It sold for $65k less than ours - twice. Now Zillow has it valued at $120k more than ours.
There is no possible way that house is worth more than ours, no way, no how. And, $120k more is just added crazy.
Now, there may be some random comp somewhere nearby that went into foreclosure, but that is just impossible that it would affect us negatively, while they are somehow gaining ground.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:26854
There are two things you can investigate:
1. Are the facts correct for all the homes?
2. Are the comps appropriate for all homes?
You can change either or both for your home once it is claimed by you. If changes are part of the Zestimate formula, it will be several weeks to several months until the actual number changes in response.
1. Are the facts correct for all the homes?
2. Are the comps appropriate for all homes?
You can change either or both for your home once it is claimed by you. If changes are part of the Zestimate formula, it will be several weeks to several months until the actual number changes in response.
Why are you continuing to devalue my home, while my neighbor's values are rising - substantially?
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