Why are you renting?

Let's talk!  Why are you renting?  Chances are you are paying $600 plus for a 2 bedroom apartment or an older 2 bedroom home in this area.  You probably have a minimum of  $400 for a deposit plus a month in advance to get in.  Are you aware that you could purchase a brand new "no one has taken a bath in the tub but you" home and pay as little as $600/mo for 3 bedroom, 2 full baths, and some plans have a garage.  And yes that includes insurance and property taxes.  That's all and that's it.  Oh yeah...  About that deposit...  let's just use $300 of it as 'earnest money'.  That is, money that shows the builder that you are serious about the purchase. 

Notice I did not say, "Down Payment".  In this area you may very well qualify for a 'no money down' purchase.
Sound interesting.  Let's get started it.  Message me!
  • October 03 2011 - Milton
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Be a Good Neighbor. Be respectful and on-topic. No spam or self-promotion! See our Good Neighbor Policy.

 
 

Answers (38)

Profile picture for SteadyState
 Willie Willie Willie ... why mislead your own potential customers?

In you area (Milton , FL) there are 1934 homes for SALE!!!
Milton is down 6.1% year to year!
See the data on why home prices are likely to fall further in Milton FL here.

To answer you question I am renting because:

1) It is cheaper to rent than buy
2) Home prices continue to fall
3) Renting from the local family is better than renting from a bank IN NY.

  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
Who wants to put up with all that construction noise and impacts (dust, traffic, vibration ...) for the next two years?

There are plenty of communities where the houses are already established.

There is no need to put up with those negative impacts.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for the_country_hick
Why are you forgetting to mention HOA fees, taxes, maintenance, insurance, heat, and the other costs involved in buying compared to renting?

Besides, who says I will be living in the same place for a long enough time frame to pay the realtor fees when I need to sell or that I could resell at all let alone resell without losing money when the time comes?
  • October 03 2011
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There are also tax benefits to owning a home that weren't mentioned before. There is also the intrinsic value...Pride of Ownership.   

After reading the responses of people that are renting, I think that the underlying , unmentioned theme is that some people feel uncomfortable being obligated to a monthly payment and the responsibility of ownership.  I think that some people are just made to rent no matter what advantages home ownership provides. 

  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for SteadyState
Wade Wade Wade  -

Why add insult to your customers injury?

If there is pride of ownership why so many strategic defaults?
What pride of ownership is there in a short sale?
What pride is there in foreclosure?

And most importantly when the bank owns 80% why do you say you own the home? You just  have a "rent to own" agreement with the bank. You are still renting - only difference is you are renting from some banker on Wall Street instead of the family living in the same town.

Finally - given that home prices at averaging $120K in Milton and a mortgage interest payment is likely to be between $4500 to $5500 a year. Go to a tax consultant who really knows what they are doing and they will quickly point out that it may be better to take the standard deduction and not itemize the mortgage interest deduction (Really buyers should consult a tax accountant - advice from on REA on taxes costs $0 and may be worth just as much if not lower - negative values occur when you listen to an REA for tax purposes and the IRS thinks differently ).
  • October 03 2011
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Well, if you are a confirmed renter, you will most likely never be a real estate agent's customer.  I appreciate your well thought out answers to justify why you don't own a home and I am happy for you convincing yourself that renting is a good thing.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
"After reading the responses of people that are renting, I think that the underlying , unmentioned theme is that some people feel uncomfortable being obligated to a monthly payment and the responsibility of ownership." -

You are plain "foolish".  I bought and paid off my mortgage and own outright.  I just wasn't foolish enough to buy new in a development that was still under construction.  Nor was I foolish enough to buy during a bubble adjustment to lose my down payment equity.

Of course I'll buy again, but I can guarantee that Wade won't represent me.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for the_country_hick
Wade, I have had what you would call pride of ownership of my vehicles for 20 years costing me about $500 a year. If I could have rented the same vehicles for $200 a year I would have been happy to have rented those vehicles instead.

Pride of ownership did not factor in to well when I had to drive each vehicle into the junkyard because they were rusted past repair. It also did not factor in when I had to decide whether to get rid of the vehicle or put an expensive transmission or engine in it.

Pride of ownership does not sit as well when an expensive repair comes up either. That is true of a car and a house.

Define pride of ownership. I have some things I own I like having and using. I never felt proud to own them. I bought them, paid for them, and used them. What more is to be expected be it a radio, car, house, or m&m's?

Is it not possible to simply lie to people saying that you own the place? Most would never check the registry of deeds to find out for sure. Besides, until such time as the house is paid for you NEVER have pride of ownership. You only have pride of paying a secured debt.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for SteadyState
Wade -

I bought in 1995. Sold in 2005 when the market got frothy. I will buy again but based on a careful analysis not what some agent tells me who is driven by the receipt of commission.
In our market

Median home price = 8 * median income

Prices are frothy.

Why not back up your recommendation with data/reasoning? I have not seen you provide factual data in Milton, FL to support your conclusion.


  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for wordsmth
I feel like I've fallen into a time warp and come out in 2006. No down payment. As little as $600 a month for a 3 bed/2 bath. With a garage. And that includes insurance and property taxes? Really now?

You'd be hard-pressed to buy a new mobile or manufactured home for that amount. Get real. SteadyState says homes in Milton are going for about $120,000. I did a quick search here on Zillow and that seems to be roughly in the ballpark.

And Dan points out some of the other expenses--ranging from HOA to maintenance you wouldn't have on a rental. Oh, but I forgot. These homes are so new that no one else has plopped their rotund rear into the bathtub.

Gee, the way things are going, renters just ought to wait a year or so. Then builders will be paying them to take the houses off their hands.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
"I will take the time to make sure your home is priced right, advertised appropriately, and of course that you are pleased with the sale." -

No wonder he has no listings!  He wants his clients to list for $48.6k so the buyers can buy with nothing down, and can afford the mortgage insurance, property taxes, home owner insurance, and HOA fees.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for blue screen exile
Here is one that seems to meet Willie's search criterion, except for not "new".

6528-Hunter-St-Milton-FL-32570

It has been on the market quite a while though, so it must be over-priced.
  • October 03 2011
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Profile picture for wetdawgs
Assumptions are interesting things, they dig very deep holes!

I'm like Pasa, I own outright.     If I were in the market today, I would chose to rent for some time.





  • October 03 2011
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)WOW!  I've only had my integrity challenged once before Mr. Wade.  I mislead and will mislead no one!  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  However, make an E D U C A T E D one.  That is, the reason that this was sent in this area is because it is eligible for rural development.  IE...  no money down and no MMI/PMI.  That is, should the potential owner qualify.  It is also a military area and VA offers the same benefits.  This is also an area in which the prices were elevated 6 years ago after a hurricane wiped out homes and supply fell behind demand.  The prices have come around for the most part except a few existing homes. New insurance regulation took effect and home built before the hurricane have considerably higher insurance premiums.   And lastly, homestead exemption can be doubled from 25k to 50k.
But here is a challenge to you (SteadyState) my fair weather friend...  Would you pay 100% interest on a home?   Give all of you tax benefit monies back?  Just because you are worried that something on your new 10/15yr builder warrantied home might break?  Or because you don't want to cut the grass?  You will NEVER own if you rent.  I understand the "fear of commitment".  But do you really thing that someone would rent a house to you for less than it costs them to own and upkeep? 

Of course see your CPA, they will tell you that nearly the first 15yrs is mostly interest of a standard 30 yr mortgage.  Do not assume speak to them and they can point out your exact benefit within minutes.  

Wordsmith, Pasa, Dan, and SteadyState...  again not 'he said', 'she said', but the truth.  New home prices here start at 89900 list.  (5044 CORA ST}  That is on a quarter-acre lot in a nice neighborhood.   Even if the higher interest rate of 4.5 percent were secured at full price.  Taxes and insurance should not exceed $100/mo.  /AND no I did not include 7241 PRO LN which list at 79900 but does not have a garage.  NOR did I mention FL bond program which aides $7500 with the purchase/closing costs.  Just a bonus should they qualify.  So taking a quote from you....  "Let's be real"...  I am not trying to put someone on the beach front or other waterfront properties that skew the average home prices.  Nor baiting anyone with the offer of granite or stainless, but solid math of 'real' houses. There are at least 6 new homes listed ready to be occupied in Milton alone that meet this criteria, but there are builders whom would be happy to pursue building on their lot or a few more vacant lots in this area as well. 

And Pasa...  no listings because I have not yet added them.  I have turned down more listing than I have.  I am a realist.  I will not list if I feel the property is over priced or the owner will not listen to the advice they are commissioning. 

Customers, Agents.  Know your market!  Take the extra time to find out 'why and why not'.  You will save yourself/client money and possibly time in the long haul.  
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for Bruce Cadden
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calculator.html

Take a peek at this as opposed to the old"I'm the most right" arguments.
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for wetdawgs
@Bruce: Great calculator.  Thanks for posting it.      With the current local data, it looks like it will take 22 years for buying to be better than renting.  That will give Dan & Steady State plenty of wiggle room for their several year plan.

@Willie - I love links that dead end to having to sign into the MLS.  
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for sunnyview
There are reasons to rent and there are reasons to buy. Buying a house is like getting married. If you need someone to talk you into it, you should wait until it makes sense to you before jumping in or you will face bigger issues down the line.
  • October 04 2011
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Correct Sunny!  That is what many fear is commitment.  Some rent for years and years.  Others move from home to home spending thousands.  If you were to tell me that you are going to move in the next couple of years, I would tell you that renting or investing is the move for you. 

Bruce.  Awesome calculator, HOWEVER it does not include some variables (homestead and other tax exemptions) and add some that do not apply (difference in utilities paid by owner).  It is a guide!  Again, KNOW your area.  22 years, Wetdawg (double tax exemptions= $50000).  That means that your taxes would be less than 1/2 of the taxes on the calculator.  By reducing the millage rate of .0138663 to 0.6% on the calculator 6 years is the answer.  It also does not consider income tax savings.  My math...  nothing to consider.  You save by the first year you claim your exemption.  Talk about bait and switch!  It is a guide.  A good guide if you use it correctly. 

Sorry about the links didn't actually mean to put links there just addresses.  But I will link them to the public MLS site.

  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for sunnyview
I'm not sure that what they fear is commitment. Commitment feels pretty good if it has sensible underpinnings. Unfortunately, the recent market crash has given people time to think about the fact that RE is not a guaranteed path to stability.

Owners who bought at the wrong time, with the wrong reasons or with the wrong loan saw their financial lives blow up. Many who are renting now do not want to make that same mistake. I think that the more objective information they get to base their decision on the better.
  • October 04 2011
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Not saying that the fear of commitment is not founded, but it could be founded for lack of confidence in job stability and seeing prices skyrocket overnight here and then slowly adjust back to where they should be.  I certainly agree with you, Sunny.

Sorry again all didn't think linking them to the MLS was the best idea.  But the MLS numbers are there and they are both searchable here on Zillow. 

Cora St.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5044-Cora-St-Milton-FL-32570/2124154597_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-list-address}


Pro Ln
http://www.zillow.com/trk/ClkTrk.htm?link=%2Fhomedetails%2F7241-Pro-Ln-Milton-FL-32570%2F2127233473_zpid%2F%23%7Bscid%3Dhdp-site-map-list-address%7D&tp=2127233473&ts=1&tt=37
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for sunnyview
Thanks for the updated links.
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for the_country_hick
Willie, I have been committed to buying a house for at least 15 years. However, I hit financial hard times in the mid nineties that lasted through the end of that decade. By 2000 bubble pricing had hit and I was priced out of the market.

Do not confuse being afraid to buy with being unable to afford bubbled house prices.

During this time of waiting to buy I have dedicated myself to buying a house. I placed as much of my money as possible into savings. As you are aware the price of houses jumped up quickly in the bubble years. It was impossible to ever catch up to them. I refused to take a loan I was offered that would have been all but $150 a month of my income. I knew I could not afford that. In fact that scared me a lot as it showed me there was something very wrong in the mortgage lending market.

"Would you pay 100% interest on a home?"
No, After saving for that long I will be paying with cash no financing involved.

"Give all of you tax benefit monies back?"
  Income tax I do better with the standard deduction. Property tax only means the taxes are higher than they should be not a whole lot higher than they should be.

"Just because you are worried that something on your new 10/15yr builder warrantied home might break?"
  I am not even considering a new wood box house. If I were to get a new house it would be something like quadlocks foam-concrete sandwich that is extremely quiet and energy efficient. I am not concerned about things breaking because I know something will happen. That is an expected part of life.

"Or because you don't want to cut the grass?" 
In my town every single rental house has to mow their own lawn. Renting changes nothing here.

"You will NEVER own if you rent."
Did you ever rent a house or apartment or dorm room in your life? Just because someone is renting now does not mean they will not own a house later in life.

What percentage of home owners (meaning a paid off house not a mortgage payer) rented in their life? I am willing to bet most of them did.
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for the_country_hick
I am old enough to know what a real estate market looks like without bubble pricing and can afford to wait for that normal market to return as economic laws say it must.

p.s. Only a 1/4 acre lot? Is that even big enough to spit over?
  • October 04 2011
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So sorry about the hit that you took.  And you are wise to say 'no' to something that you know that you could not afford.  When things happened in this area they really happened overnight.  Those that lost their homes really had no choice other that quitting their jobs and moving to another area all together.  But it does remind me of another problem in this area.  Many took second mortgages when the "bubble" was at it's highest mark.  They are suffering as well. 

With that said.  I think you have answered the question to "Why are YOU renting?"  Things to remember though is Each area is different and the tools here and NY Times are guides.  You should use a professional or two or three (real estate agent - mortgage pro - CPA etc.) who could HELP decipher the 'untolds'.  I have quarterly seminars here and the two surrounding counties using professionals whom know this area, tendencies, and law.  I can understand you watch the market for the best time to purchase and pay cash.  Remember everyone is NOT you and not all can do that.  In this market(area) ,at this range, this is the best option available.  I would not say the same for Detroit (because I do not know and will not assume).  As far as the "excuse' that I put there those are constant arguments for renting.  You mentioned 'costly repair', I just followed from there.  Real Estate taxes here are lower than most without the double exemption benefit.  Nobody likes paying them, but the government rewards you for doing so.  Yes, real estate taxes and housing interest are deductible.  Your standard deduction is better simply because you do not own.  If you avoid the interest by paying cash on your owner occupied property, and still cannot save you should have a good CPA do your taxes.  Lastly, I will rephrase for you, You will NEVER own if you continue to rent.   I wish you luck, but please pray and make an educated decision for your area.  If you buy correctly, you will be fine.  Otherwise it won't matter whether you paid cash or not.  God Bless.
  • October 04 2011
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OK Dan.  So, it seems that you think the builders are going to suffer so much that they are going to build a home for 1/2 the labor?  Do you really think that the price of these new homes are going to go down?  Or are you looking at a "median" home price that indeed will decrease slightly.  Are you watching too much CNN or are you looking at the new home prices?  How much lower than 89900 do you think they will go?

And yes 0.25 acre.  A 0.25 acre lot could vary in price here from $7500 to $50000 depending upon location.  I looked at a listing for a client yesterday that was on a 0.09 acre lot.  BTW it was over 1800 sq ft.  Again, know your area.  Age is not knowledge, nor is experience if you learned improperly.  Laws, economy, programs, and even history change.  Shouldn't you constantly update your knowledge base as well?  A good professional will.
  • October 04 2011
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Willie, the fact of the matter is a post like yours rankles many because its ultimately self-serving.  Us agents make our money on selling houses.

There may be some truth to what you are saying for your particular area but it doesn't matter-  its still comes off as a bad sales pitch.
  • October 04 2011
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Thanks for you opinion Joan.  Heartfelt!

Remember the section is Rent vs Buy. 
 
  • October 04 2011
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This is personal for me:
I've been a homeowner for close to 30 years and have just recently had to enter the rental market.

Rents are high in my area which validates what you say-  mortgages and the associated costs of homeownership, even in a high tax area such as mine, are often cheaper than rents.

That being said there are obviously pros and cons to each which has been discussed ad nauseum.  Its simply a personal decision.

My point is your post came across as a sales pitch and if that's a turn off to me, a fellow agent, you can understand why its a turn off to non agents.

Its not a matter of who's right or who's wrong.  Its a matter of who has something to gain by presenting one side of the equation.
  • October 04 2011
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Is that to say that it is not personal for me?  For Dan? or the others here.  I do apologize that it comes across as a 'turn off' to you.  Mostly for not reading the 'rules of engagement' so to speak here.  This was meant to be an aide to those who are renting in this area.  Yes, of course I would benefit if and only if they see fit to hire me and close. (you know how the process works).  You know a decision should not be made without education.  Which was point two.  I will stick to point two in the future.  Perhaps, that would avoid she sentiments.  Thanks to you again, Joan.
  • October 04 2011
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Profile picture for the_country_hick
Willie, can you explain to me how the builders suddenly charged a whole lot more for a new house in 2006 compared to 1996? Although some was due to the cost of materials increasing a lot of the price increase was pure profit. There is still room for price reductions.
  • October 04 2011
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