Replies (154)
- Michael Salois, "MichaelSalois"
- Contributions:290
My opinion is single person or office with over 100 listings on Zillow should be very closely looked at.
As a premier agent I currently have an agent that claims over 2000 listings. However looking at this agents stats on Sandicor shows that he ACTUALLY currently has 1 active listing.
He is beating the system with some sort of data feed to claim this huge number of listings. And should be banned, account should be closed and whatever feed he has set up should be cut off.
I am sure you understand my concern as a paying permier agent. In all of my zip codes with all of his "claimed listings" he will be in top "first contact" position. Which is leading to a huge cut in the number of contacts/leads I am getting for my advertising dollar.
Please contact me personally with a resolution or solution.
Michael Salois 619-417-1954
- Jeff Grenz, "Jeff Grenz"
- Contributions:281
Michael, saw your other post and started looking at our listing stream. The 2nd listing I looked at, that had gone contingent and we pulled it from Postlets a few weeks ago, was showing up again in Zillow, so I dug in.
The offending agent's website, just like Zillow, pulls all listings from every source and shows them on their page, giving credit, per MLS rules, to the listing agent. This is a very common site feature now, pretty much pioneered by Zillow. This data was then pulled to Trulia, showing the agent from the site as the listing agent, incorrectly. I'm assuming that is the source of my contingent listing showing up on Zillow as available.
Looking at your San Diego nemesis, it looks like exactly the same thing, except he was an early learner and it has exploited the Zillow referral system (where more is better).
More programming code needed!
The offending agent's website, just like Zillow, pulls all listings from every source and shows them on their page, giving credit, per MLS rules, to the listing agent. This is a very common site feature now, pretty much pioneered by Zillow. This data was then pulled to Trulia, showing the agent from the site as the listing agent, incorrectly. I'm assuming that is the source of my contingent listing showing up on Zillow as available.
Looking at your San Diego nemesis, it looks like exactly the same thing, except he was an early learner and it has exploited the Zillow referral system (where more is better).
More programming code needed!
- Michael Salois, "MichaelSalois"
- Contributions:290
Agree, hopefully you can see my issue as it relates to my advertising dollars.
What you you think of my suggestion of Zillow "red flaggin" an investgating any agent or team showing more than 100 listings and banning them or shutting down their account if they are not that agent or team's actual listing?
Solution seems pretty simple to me.
What you you think of my suggestion of Zillow "red flaggin" an investgating any agent or team showing more than 100 listings and banning them or shutting down their account if they are not that agent or team's actual listing?
Solution seems pretty simple to me.
- Dunes....
- Contributions:3876
Thought some might be interested in what happened with issue Michael talked about, what was done, ect....
An excellent example of what can be done if all work together..
Win Win for Agents, Zillow and the Public
How long is Zillow going to let this garbage go on?
An excellent example of what can be done if all work together..
Win Win for Agents, Zillow and the Public
How long is Zillow going to let this garbage go on?
- Connie Klemme
- Contributions:3347
this isn't really an improvement on listings so much as an generic thing.
when a customer is searching for properties that are for rent- it doesn't make sense for buyer's agents to show up on that property- or at least if the buyer's agent doesn't do anything with rentals and the customer calls them, it has wasted the customer's time. If there were an indicator for the agents in their profile for doing rentals I suppose that would be ok but it seems that it's better on rentals that the only contact that shows up to be the landlord, that's who the customer really wants to contact, anyone else is a waste of the customer's time. maybe it already works this way and I'm misunderstanding it.
when a customer is searching for properties that are for rent- it doesn't make sense for buyer's agents to show up on that property- or at least if the buyer's agent doesn't do anything with rentals and the customer calls them, it has wasted the customer's time. If there were an indicator for the agents in their profile for doing rentals I suppose that would be ok but it seems that it's better on rentals that the only contact that shows up to be the landlord, that's who the customer really wants to contact, anyone else is a waste of the customer's time. maybe it already works this way and I'm misunderstanding it.
- dawnb08
- Contributions:25
I would like to see comparables first by neighborhood, rather than just zip code or city.
My parents' home has a Zestimate that is consistently well below its appraissal because the comparables are from near-by neighborhoods where homes are of lesser quality and value. Their neighborhood is a more sought-after location with higher quality homes, more square footage and lot size. The Zestimate, is like comparing apples to oranges - not similar enough.
It's also hard for me to identify and select appropriate comparables as the list of sold homes that comes up does not show zip codes; just street address. Each listing must be individually opened to see if they are in the correct zip code - tedious process. Would like to have the zip code info available in this list.
My parents' home has a Zestimate that is consistently well below its appraissal because the comparables are from near-by neighborhoods where homes are of lesser quality and value. Their neighborhood is a more sought-after location with higher quality homes, more square footage and lot size. The Zestimate, is like comparing apples to oranges - not similar enough.
It's also hard for me to identify and select appropriate comparables as the list of sold homes that comes up does not show zip codes; just street address. Each listing must be individually opened to see if they are in the correct zip code - tedious process. Would like to have the zip code info available in this list.
- Mmusik
- Contributions:16
I would like to list my house...but it is already on via a realtor even though the listing is expired. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
- Dan, "the_country_hick"
- Contributions:4827
If the agents are sending the listings directly for no cost how about a reverse rewards system? When they leave a listing long past its sale or expiration date and it gets noticed they then have to pay a nominal cost for their next listing. This should have a one time warning at no cost. After that the repeating offenders will find it financially painful to leave expired listings here. That should provide a decent incentive for agents to keep their listings up to date.
- Sean Pearson, "smpearson"
- Contributions:49
I found that a lot of this is Realtor error. We are quick to get our listings on to Zillow to appease our clients but slow to remeber that it is here once it has sold and making the process easier would be helpful too. Maybe a reminder once a month to update our listings via email.
[Edited by Zillow moderator to remove sales link]
[Edited by Zillow moderator to remove sales link]
- RowellK
- Contributions:27
Here's a simple way to improve the site: Stop altering Historical home data. I've seen dozens of messages posted from Zillow users (myself included) about how not only have our homes lost $10,000-$100,000 in value on Zillow, but all the historical data on the homes have changed....DRASTICALLY.
I understand the economy has changed, that the housing market is crashed and home values are not what they used to be. Be that as it may, a home that was valued at $200,000 in 2008 is still valued $200,000 in 2008....you can't change that fact or that history. (well, that's not true obviously, since Zillow is trying to change history).
If you're saying that these new values are the real, true values, then we have a problem here; a very, serious problem.
I understand the economy has changed, that the housing market is crashed and home values are not what they used to be. Be that as it may, a home that was valued at $200,000 in 2008 is still valued $200,000 in 2008....you can't change that fact or that history. (well, that's not true obviously, since Zillow is trying to change history).
If you're saying that these new values are the real, true values, then we have a problem here; a very, serious problem.
- TerryHershner
- Contributions:39
Zillow has changed historical data recently for the first time I have ever seen. To keep a reputation, this must be either fixed, or explained as to why it happened. Historical figures are historical figures. I am contacting Diana Olick from CNBC to investigate why Zillow is doing this with out giving notice.
- Sara Bonert, "Sara Bonert"
- Contributions:933
This is an older post, that I think deserves an update from us at Zillow. A lot of good ideas here and some that we would never be able to do because we don't have direct relationships with most of the MLSs in the US. We've done a few tweaks on the system to help with the stale listing issue that wouldn't be too interesting to go into here. But here are a few of the larger projects that have had an impact:
1) We scored every feed based on a number of criteria - the big ones were % of listings on the site that were more than 180 days old and number of photos. For all syndicator feeds (broker, agent, franchise or mls feeds excluded, as those are usually clean) that had above the norm % of listings that hadn't expired for 180+ days - they now have an auto expiration on them. Depending on the score, this expiration could be anywhere from 30-180 days.
2) We now have much stricter criteria for promoting new feeds. Just because you submit a feed, does not mean it goes live. We take all new feeds through a quality check process.
3) We have better systems in place to discover and tear down any feed that hasn't had any changes for 30 days.
- Sara Bonert, "Sara Bonert"
- Contributions:933
4) If an agent makes a change directly on Zillow (verses at the source of the listing data, which is where changes should be made) it no longer disconnects the listing with the feed. The change will stay live on the site for approximately 2 weeks or until there is a change in the feed, then will revert back to being feed controlled. This allows an agent to get changes up on Zillow immediately and also gives them a few days to get the change made in the originating system. Further, this ensures the listing comes off the site when it comes out of the feed.
Lastly, some of the suggestions on this list are great and we need to do them, for example if the county tells us something sold it needs to come off our site immediately, this means the listing is stale. For all of this, we now have brought a full time person on to get projects like this done. So while these first steps are good, this person is really going to help get us closer to the finish line (if there is one!).
Lastly, some of the suggestions on this list are great and we need to do them, for example if the county tells us something sold it needs to come off our site immediately, this means the listing is stale. For all of this, we now have brought a full time person on to get projects like this done. So while these first steps are good, this person is really going to help get us closer to the finish line (if there is one!).
- Erin Coningsby, "Erin Coningsby"
- Contributions:2
I'm the new hire that Sara mentioned. I'm 100% focused on improving Zillow's data quality, both from the listing and public data perspective. I'm so glad there's such a passionate user base here with such great suggestions. I'll be keeping this thread updated with our progress and making sure that all of your suggestions are tracked. Nice to "meet" you all!
- Jeff Grenz, "Jeff Grenz"
- Contributions:281
Erin, here's a problem that I believe is a source of many issues. As soon as I take down a listing, whether its contingent, pending, sold, withdrawn, there are agent websites with sophisticated algorithms that pick the information direct from MLS and repost immediately in the "hole" left in Zillow. They show up moments after we post to MLS, until we post on Zillow, and return as soon as we pull them down.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/6111867_agent_list/6_p/1_fr/
By the time I got to page 6 of this guys listings, I counted 16 of our listings. Multiply this a 100 fold per state, per city and you have a quality problem. This guy - you - Zillow - have homes posted here that have been sold for 6-12 months, posted by agents that don't even have the listings. I'm sure if I explored every home we listed over the past year, they'd still be here somewhere. Your job, not mine.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/6111867_agent_list/6_p/1_fr/
By the time I got to page 6 of this guys listings, I counted 16 of our listings. Multiply this a 100 fold per state, per city and you have a quality problem. This guy - you - Zillow - have homes posted here that have been sold for 6-12 months, posted by agents that don't even have the listings. I'm sure if I explored every home we listed over the past year, they'd still be here somewhere. Your job, not mine.
- Marc Stromberg, "uniquehomefinder"
- Contributions:54
"KISS" I think you are trying to be all things to all people and not getting the best information out to the people who want the best. Who uses Zillow and why? Agents, buyers and sellers. Now agents have their MLS, and that gives them the data they need. It's the buyers and sellers that you need to grab, then agents will also look toward Zillow.
The two groups that need good information aren't getting complete up to date information, why? Look at where you get your information and how it becomes part of your system. Make it clear, simple and quick. Too much information is as bad as not enough.
The two groups that need good information aren't getting complete up to date information, why? Look at where you get your information and how it becomes part of your system. Make it clear, simple and quick. Too much information is as bad as not enough.
- Erin Coningsby, "Erin Coningsby"
- Contributions:2
Jeff - thank you for your report. That agent's listings are now removed from Zillow. Part of our data quality work is to better identify and deal with agents doing this.
- Jeff Grenz, "Jeff Grenz"
- Contributions:281
Thank you, but I think its important for Zillow to understand, this agent was not manually inputing listings. This is likely a standard programmed IDX type website that uploads listings to you automatically.
Likely there are 100s more of these taking advantage of a programming barn door open.
Likely there are 100s more of these taking advantage of a programming barn door open.
- Spirit Messingham, "TucsonSpirit"
- Contributions:1512
MLS does feed Zillow but it if not up-to-date nor considered accurate. Looks to me that listings are very slow to change to Active Contingent or Sold from MLS. The listings on Zillow need to be changed DAILY, from MLS would be preferred. I have lost count of all the times a client has called/emailed/inquired about a property that has already been sold. I can think of one property here in Central Tucson that provided me with no less than 7 leads. They called on it, I knew it was already under contract and we looked for something else.
The listings need to be more up-to-date and accurate to be a true service. For free, I still think it is a good FREE tool for the consumer to use but not to put all their stock into.
The listings need to be more up-to-date and accurate to be a true service. For free, I still think it is a good FREE tool for the consumer to use but not to put all their stock into.
- Sara Bonert, "Sara Bonert"
- Contributions:933
Every feed is processed every day. (barring any major outages which don't happen often).
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26022
"MLS does feed Zillow but it if not up-to-date nor considered accurate. Looks to me that listings are very slow to change to Active Contingent or Sold from MLS." -
That is because MLS does NOT feed ZILLOW! The feeds are going through multiple different websites that get feeds from the MLS prior to any feeds to Zillow. The biggest problem is agent websites, as they love to collect listings, but they hate to remove them, or even mark them pending.
Only 2 MLS's feed directly to Zillow. Some are feeding to Zillow through Listhub, but that certainly doesn't take care of most cases either.
That is because MLS does NOT feed ZILLOW! The feeds are going through multiple different websites that get feeds from the MLS prior to any feeds to Zillow. The biggest problem is agent websites, as they love to collect listings, but they hate to remove them, or even mark them pending.
Only 2 MLS's feed directly to Zillow. Some are feeding to Zillow through Listhub, but that certainly doesn't take care of most cases either.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26022
"This is likely a standard programmed IDX type website that uploads listings to you automatically.
Likely there are 100s more of these taking advantage of a programming barn door open." -
If Zillow would implement the suggestion I gave a couple pages ago; this would easily be solved. Of course it will take substantially more resources to accomplish; but quality of listings is important to consumers. And if the listing quality is good, the buyers will be looking here. And if the buyers are here, the agents will be here. And if this is the place that people will be looking, then the listing agents will want to have their listing posted here.
Thus it is worth the resources, and should be prioritized to address it.
Likely there are 100s more of these taking advantage of a programming barn door open." -
If Zillow would implement the suggestion I gave a couple pages ago; this would easily be solved. Of course it will take substantially more resources to accomplish; but quality of listings is important to consumers. And if the listing quality is good, the buyers will be looking here. And if the buyers are here, the agents will be here. And if this is the place that people will be looking, then the listing agents will want to have their listing posted here.
Thus it is worth the resources, and should be prioritized to address it.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:6605
Overly simple idea...
Sometimes, instead of an overly complex solution to an unsolveable problem (i.e., how do you mandate/control quality of listings at an external source), a simple process change works wonders.
Whatever the reason, the bottom line is that the Zillow map automatically populates with the "For Sale", "For Rent", etc. icons. If I start by looking in an area (vice doing a specific search that includes the "how long on market" parameter), I am going to see every "For Sale" house automatically marked with a red icon - and then it is up to me to filter them out. However, if I don't filter, well...
So, by default, don't show the "For Sale" or "For Rent" icons until a search is actually performed. Make a "Quick Search" that is easy to do, and defaults to a 60-day or 90-day window. Provide a "Advanced Search" that allows more control. For the casual consumer, the "Quick Search" will effectively filter out old listings. Not exactly a 100% solution, but it could cut down on the major frustrations - especially with listings that are "obviously stale".
NOTE: I'm sure you'd want to exclude "Zillow Listings" from this algorithm, as these are directly listed by the consumer.
Sometimes, instead of an overly complex solution to an unsolveable problem (i.e., how do you mandate/control quality of listings at an external source), a simple process change works wonders.
Whatever the reason, the bottom line is that the Zillow map automatically populates with the "For Sale", "For Rent", etc. icons. If I start by looking in an area (vice doing a specific search that includes the "how long on market" parameter), I am going to see every "For Sale" house automatically marked with a red icon - and then it is up to me to filter them out. However, if I don't filter, well...
So, by default, don't show the "For Sale" or "For Rent" icons until a search is actually performed. Make a "Quick Search" that is easy to do, and defaults to a 60-day or 90-day window. Provide a "Advanced Search" that allows more control. For the casual consumer, the "Quick Search" will effectively filter out old listings. Not exactly a 100% solution, but it could cut down on the major frustrations - especially with listings that are "obviously stale".
NOTE: I'm sure you'd want to exclude "Zillow Listings" from this algorithm, as these are directly listed by the consumer.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:6605
p.s. If you go this route, make the "Search For Sales" and "Search For Rentals" really obvious and easy. Otherwise, you're sure to flooded with "can't search for sales/rentals anymore" posts.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:26843
I think a 90 days default would be an easy fix, but I'm not sure how listing agent would feel about it since some properties still on the market would not show up in the first search at all.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:6605
@ Sunnyview (and Russ too, if you're still reading this thread)...
But, once all is said and done, it's the REAs (and/or the sites they are using) that are causing their own problems - ticking off users by having stale listings.
So, the core question is "Who is the search for, REAs or consumers?" If REAs, then they are fouling their own pond by leaving all the stale listings. In the brick-and-mortar world, leaving signs on the lawn didn't have the same impact - but the WWW has changed the game. If consumers, then would it be better not to make them wade through stale listings, unless they choose to?.
And, either way, what good is it to either REA or consumer to have the current situation with stale listings continue? If we all agree that it is in no ones' interest, then there's really only three possible solutions.
In order of increasing likelihood of success...
#1 All REAs get their act together and police their listings. And, REAs who are repeat offenders of leaving stale listings up (purposely or otherwise) are sanctioned (ummm....yeah).
#2 Zillow somehow magically devines the current status of a listing, or gets direct access to the MLS to try and drive the listings. And, we all agree that Zillow's algorithm makes a lot of sense (ummm...yeah).
#3 Leave the system as is; listings, syndication sites, REAs, and all. And then, simply provide the consumer with the most likely subset of the listings to look at, with the opportunity to expand the search if they want to.
If I had a cynical streak in me, I might also point out that I'm sure there is some sort of business/marketing model in here for Zillow to enable "registered REAs" more control over their listings once they hit Zillow. However, I'm not that cynical and can't think like that - so I'm sure the previous sentence didn't come from my keyboard.
But, once all is said and done, it's the REAs (and/or the sites they are using) that are causing their own problems - ticking off users by having stale listings.
So, the core question is "Who is the search for, REAs or consumers?" If REAs, then they are fouling their own pond by leaving all the stale listings. In the brick-and-mortar world, leaving signs on the lawn didn't have the same impact - but the WWW has changed the game. If consumers, then would it be better not to make them wade through stale listings, unless they choose to?.
And, either way, what good is it to either REA or consumer to have the current situation with stale listings continue? If we all agree that it is in no ones' interest, then there's really only three possible solutions.
In order of increasing likelihood of success...
#1 All REAs get their act together and police their listings. And, REAs who are repeat offenders of leaving stale listings up (purposely or otherwise) are sanctioned (ummm....yeah).
#2 Zillow somehow magically devines the current status of a listing, or gets direct access to the MLS to try and drive the listings. And, we all agree that Zillow's algorithm makes a lot of sense (ummm...yeah).
#3 Leave the system as is; listings, syndication sites, REAs, and all. And then, simply provide the consumer with the most likely subset of the listings to look at, with the opportunity to expand the search if they want to.
If I had a cynical streak in me, I might also point out that I'm sure there is some sort of business/marketing model in here for Zillow to enable "registered REAs" more control over their listings once they hit Zillow. However, I'm not that cynical and can't think like that - so I'm sure the previous sentence didn't come from my keyboard.
- Reallyfedup
- Contributions:810
Just an FYI SoCal. These sites feed each other and a listing can end up on a site that an REA may not even know it's on. As long as it's still out there, a lot of sites will pick it up.
I had a listing and a rental that had been closed out in the MLS years ago, but was on some RE site that I never even heard of, nor did I belong to. It took me a while to find it and get the listings off of it.
I had a listing and a rental that had been closed out in the MLS years ago, but was on some RE site that I never even heard of, nor did I belong to. It took me a while to find it and get the listings off of it.
- sunnyview
- Contributions:26843
"...once all is said and done, it's the REAs (and/or the sites they are using) that are causing their own problems - ticking off users by having stale listings."
I agree with that. I think that accurate listings are what both good agents and consumers want. It would be nice if agents had a consolidated way to track listings so that they all showed up in a "master list". The sites that are listing consolidators seem to be some of the most problematic. They take listings from sites without notifying the agent and then do not update them at all.
Listings on Zillow could be improved. I think that for agents with a Zillow profile, Zillow could send an automatic email so that agents could update the status of all of their listings every 90 days or so, if they didn't then they would be excluded from the 90 day default search if that was set up. They would not be gone,but would be off to the side until they were updated.
I would be curious to know if agents think that would make their job of tracking listings easier or harder.
I agree with that. I think that accurate listings are what both good agents and consumers want. It would be nice if agents had a consolidated way to track listings so that they all showed up in a "master list". The sites that are listing consolidators seem to be some of the most problematic. They take listings from sites without notifying the agent and then do not update them at all.
Listings on Zillow could be improved. I think that for agents with a Zillow profile, Zillow could send an automatic email so that agents could update the status of all of their listings every 90 days or so, if they didn't then they would be excluded from the 90 day default search if that was set up. They would not be gone,but would be off to the side until they were updated.
I would be curious to know if agents think that would make their job of tracking listings easier or harder.
- SoCal_Engr
- Contributions:6605
@ RFU...
Thanks for that info. However, it really goes to reinforce my point. Instead of worrying about "cleansing the feed", focus on "cleansing the display", with options to see everything if the consumer wants to.
In all honesty, it's kind of a "brain dead solution", but sometimes us s/w folks are too in love with our algorithms.
Thanks for that info. However, it really goes to reinforce my point. Instead of worrying about "cleansing the feed", focus on "cleansing the display", with options to see everything if the consumer wants to.
In all honesty, it's kind of a "brain dead solution", but sometimes us s/w folks are too in love with our algorithms.
- Sara Bonert, "Sara Bonert"
- Contributions:933
"I think that for agents with a Zillow profile, Zillow could send an automatic email so that agents could update the status of all of their listings every 90 days". Agents with profiles do get an email every two weeks with a traffic report of all the listings that are running live on the site. We don't 'auto expire' anything at this point though. But this is only a subset of all the agents who have listings on the site.
One thing that's been done since this was posted, that I think has made a big difference:
Often Zillow receives the same listing from multiple sources. Each feed of Zillow has a specific tier assigned to it, which determines which source we use for the listing. We are implementing a tight hierarchy on posting listings from the various trump levels. Now, if a listing comes out of a high-trump order feed, because it was sold or expired, the listing will not re-post event if it is still active in a lower-order feed. This significantly helps situations where the agent may not remember to remove a listing from a non-broker or non-MLS-based feed.
Thanks for continuing to this about this. It is something that is constantly discussed internally too!
One thing that's been done since this was posted, that I think has made a big difference:
Often Zillow receives the same listing from multiple sources. Each feed of Zillow has a specific tier assigned to it, which determines which source we use for the listing. We are implementing a tight hierarchy on posting listings from the various trump levels. Now, if a listing comes out of a high-trump order feed, because it was sold or expired, the listing will not re-post event if it is still active in a lower-order feed. This significantly helps situations where the agent may not remember to remove a listing from a non-broker or non-MLS-based feed.
Thanks for continuing to this about this. It is something that is constantly discussed internally too!
Zillow Asks: How do we improve listings quality?
We're all very aware that Zillow, and sites like ours, must improve the the "quality" of our listings. Every day brings new reports of "My home sold back in September but still shows as For Sale on your site!", or "My house isn't for sale but Zillow says it is!", and so on.
Obviously, in order to be successful in what we're trying to accomplish and so that we can create win-win-win situations all-around, we need to figure this out. And we have and continue to invest ample resources into this. It has been and is a corporate priority. If we can't grow as a reliable source for this information there is just no way we'll be around for much longer.
We have lots of ideas, we have many plans and we have improvements in-progress every week. But I'd like to ask you for your thoughts on how we can solve this. In particular, the case of "stale" listings: Home was for sale, sold(or was taken off market), but still shows as For Sale on Zillow.
Be candid and let's just throw the ideas out there ; )
Thanks so much!
Russ
Zillow Customer Support
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