Replies (92)
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26042
It is not "new", but was discontinued for quite some time, then showed up again a little over a month ago.
I've already complained, and there was already a few threads on the issue.
This is the E-mail response Russ sent me on the issue:
11/21/11:
I appreciate what you're saying here. I've been confused by the inline contextual links once or twice myself, admittedly. Certainly, the SEO/awareness benefit is important for us here. I wasn't aware that we had turned that off ever and I don't imagine we would given the role they play.
Having said that, there's certainly room for improvement. Tradeoffs for each, as usual:
- Starting off with a different color for hyperlinks(eg green for these links and normal blue for user-provided links) might be good start.
- Use of some sort of notation to mark these links more clearly is another option(see attached screenshots). Maybe one general icon for all internal links, or one for glossary, one for ZMM, one for Directory and one or two more distinct types.
- Inline pop-ups might also be an option(see attached screenshots)
- Ultimately, improvements around contextual awareness is best solution, as you said below. This is the greater challenge, obviously, but getting it right has win-win-win aspects to it so I'm sure it'd something we'll consider(if not already).
I can't comment yet on timeline for any of this but can assure you that the right Product team has received your feedback.
Really appreciate the feedback!
Russ
I've already complained, and there was already a few threads on the issue.
This is the E-mail response Russ sent me on the issue:
11/21/11:
I appreciate what you're saying here. I've been confused by the inline contextual links once or twice myself, admittedly. Certainly, the SEO/awareness benefit is important for us here. I wasn't aware that we had turned that off ever and I don't imagine we would given the role they play.
Having said that, there's certainly room for improvement. Tradeoffs for each, as usual:
- Starting off with a different color for hyperlinks(eg green for these links and normal blue for user-provided links) might be good start.
- Use of some sort of notation to mark these links more clearly is another option(see attached screenshots). Maybe one general icon for all internal links, or one for glossary, one for ZMM, one for Directory and one or two more distinct types.
- Inline pop-ups might also be an option(see attached screenshots)
- Ultimately, improvements around contextual awareness is best solution, as you said below. This is the greater challenge, obviously, but getting it right has win-win-win aspects to it so I'm sure it'd something we'll consider(if not already).
I can't comment yet on timeline for any of this but can assure you that the right Product team has received your feedback.
Really appreciate the feedback!
Russ
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
Pasa thanks for your response..............but that response you got sounds like just another blah blah bah , mumbo jumbo, not to mention convoluted, answer ....
imo.....it's wrong to alter what anyone says................zillow certainly reserves the right to edit improper or offensive language, spam, etc............but to use MY words as a jumping off point for further promotion is wrong..........what if I don't want to endorse or promote lenders here? or appraisers here?
will I need to use a disclaimer that any promotional links in my response are not an endorsement from ME?
I will not just threaten to leave, but I will leave zillow if this continues...I think it is sneaky and misleading.
imo.....it's wrong to alter what anyone says................zillow certainly reserves the right to edit improper or offensive language, spam, etc............but to use MY words as a jumping off point for further promotion is wrong..........what if I don't want to endorse or promote lenders here? or appraisers here?
will I need to use a disclaimer that any promotional links in my response are not an endorsement from ME?
I will not just threaten to leave, but I will leave zillow if this continues...I think it is sneaky and misleading.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:39658
I have also filed a complaint with Russ and received a similar answer (with no action since the complaint).
When there are too many links in every post, people won't click the links so useful responses will be wasted.
When there are too many links in every post, people won't click the links so useful responses will be wasted.
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3507
Hey they are a Media Site, taking other peoples information and distorting it is what they do. Have we not been over the fact that they have a right to do that. You posted it on their virtual billboard. Actually, Zillow is more like the ad things in the back of the bathroom stall at a sports bar, than a billboard.
But, what are you complaining about? It's their first Amendment right. They're protected by George Washington himself. I know that Debbie Rose has expressed concern about the Zestimates, as have I. But for any defender of Zestimates to complain about this is a comical affectation. Or maybe defending the statistical slander is the affectation. Come on Pasa, linking your brilliant words to sponsors is just democracy in action big guy.
But, what are you complaining about? It's their first Amendment right. They're protected by George Washington himself. I know that Debbie Rose has expressed concern about the Zestimates, as have I. But for any defender of Zestimates to complain about this is a comical affectation. Or maybe defending the statistical slander is the affectation. Come on Pasa, linking your brilliant words to sponsors is just democracy in action big guy.
- Dunes ..
- Contributions:3688
@ Debbie
I actually was not going to post here as I consider this Discussion, this type of Discussion in this Forum meaningless..a waste of time because NOTHING will come of it
(Please allow me to finish before becoming peeved with me;)
In this Forum there are imo very few people that would actually take a Stand or act on Principle..
Zillow knows just like Contact us, My Estimate, Listings, Reviews, any issue you wish to choose there will be token objection from a few and then a return to helping build the Myth of Zillow cares and listens...
I consider you one of the few who would take a Stand..I believe you would leave as a matter of Principal.
I hope you do not..
I hope you will continue to help the FEW Consumers who come here for something besides Zestimate complaints...
I hope you stay & continue to say what you honestly think ..
To say that is why I did post here..I hope you stay to share your views
@Russ
Your Email of win-win-green/blue/tradeoff/SEO /thanks we listen/care is a load of something unpleasant* [*edited by ZIllow moderator. Please refer to our GNP].
I actually was not going to post here as I consider this Discussion, this type of Discussion in this Forum meaningless..a waste of time because NOTHING will come of it
(Please allow me to finish before becoming peeved with me;)
In this Forum there are imo very few people that would actually take a Stand or act on Principle..
Zillow knows just like Contact us, My Estimate, Listings, Reviews, any issue you wish to choose there will be token objection from a few and then a return to helping build the Myth of Zillow cares and listens...
I consider you one of the few who would take a Stand..I believe you would leave as a matter of Principal.
I hope you do not..
I hope you will continue to help the FEW Consumers who come here for something besides Zestimate complaints...
I hope you stay & continue to say what you honestly think ..
To say that is why I did post here..I hope you stay to share your views
@Russ
Your Email of win-win-green/blue/tradeoff/SEO /thanks we listen/care is a load of something unpleasant* [*edited by ZIllow moderator. Please refer to our GNP].
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
Thanks for responding Tug - even when you don't want to!
I wonder how they decide when to create the link, as they are not in every post..(another mathematical algorithm perhaps??)......let me test it now and see what happens:
realtor
appraiser
contractor
lender
realtor
appraiser
contractor
lender
:)
what next?? If I mention the word "SODA", will there then be a link to an ad for Pepsi?? (what if I personally prefer Coke??)
I jest, but I am seriously annoyed, and if any of my posts are altered again, it will be my last post here, and I do mean it....not that zillow won't do just fine without me, but it's my only way of protesting (short of occupying the game room at company headquarters)!
I wonder how they decide when to create the link, as they are not in every post..(another mathematical algorithm perhaps??)......let me test it now and see what happens:
realtor
appraiser
contractor
lender
realtor
appraiser
contractor
lender
:)
what next?? If I mention the word "SODA", will there then be a link to an ad for Pepsi?? (what if I personally prefer Coke??)
I jest, but I am seriously annoyed, and if any of my posts are altered again, it will be my last post here, and I do mean it....not that zillow won't do just fine without me, but it's my only way of protesting (short of occupying the game room at company headquarters)!
- Tiffany Bond, "TiffanyBond"
- Contributions:3150
I should have read this thread before Dunes....see my comments there ;)
- Dunes ..
- Contributions:3688
It will be a huge loss for this Forum if you leave in my opinion..
But to be honest I do think Zillow will be glad there is one less honest person who will actually say something ..
Sounds like Zillow wins again and the Consumers lose again..getting to be a Pretty regular occurrence here IMHO
But to be honest I do think Zillow will be glad there is one less honest person who will actually say something ..
Sounds like Zillow wins again and the Consumers lose again..getting to be a Pretty regular occurrence here IMHO
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
Excerpt from Russ's response to Pasa:
can't comment yet on timeline for any of this but can assure you that the right Product team has received your feedback.
Hmmm so ...the concept is......let's make a change, and we'll think about it, and have the team work on it afterwards?
Glad to know the "right" Product team is hard at work on this....have another m&m
Maybe I am naive or silly, but shouldn't a (public) company think through changes/ideas and tweak them BEFORE they are implemented?
They are working on this like they are working on the review snags........
can't comment yet on timeline for any of this but can assure you that the right Product team has received your feedback.
Hmmm so ...the concept is......let's make a change, and we'll think about it, and have the team work on it afterwards?
Glad to know the "right" Product team is hard at work on this....have another m&m
Maybe I am naive or silly, but shouldn't a (public) company think through changes/ideas and tweak them BEFORE they are implemented?
They are working on this like they are working on the review snags........
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:39658
@Debbie: it seems to take 1 to 3 days until the auto links appear.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
well then Wetdawgs, I will wait with great anticipation to see where the next link might appear!
- Hamp Yonce, "Zilluminati"
- Contributions:3507
How much are the links worth? Three cents per click? A quarter per click?
Zillow has never had an original thought. This whole site exists to repackage, and gain from, the thought of others, the sweat of others, and the public information regarding private property of others. It's not media, it is recycling and re-purposing, of information, down to the word. It is distorting in every manner. It is extortion-like in some cases. To link a non-fan of REAs words, to a Realtor's ad, is the ultimate illustration of how ridiculous it can get.
Please don't anyone take this personally, but the fact that folks who defend the Zestimates, are offended by the SEO Links Policy, or whatever worthless regurgitation of the product of others, Media Information Age BS, it is called, is like the funniest thing I've read all week.
I'd pay eight American dollars to see the email Pasadenan sent Russ Hatfield about it. Just for the entertainment value. That would be Media.
Zillow has never had an original thought. This whole site exists to repackage, and gain from, the thought of others, the sweat of others, and the public information regarding private property of others. It's not media, it is recycling and re-purposing, of information, down to the word. It is distorting in every manner. It is extortion-like in some cases. To link a non-fan of REAs words, to a Realtor's ad, is the ultimate illustration of how ridiculous it can get.
Please don't anyone take this personally, but the fact that folks who defend the Zestimates, are offended by the SEO Links Policy, or whatever worthless regurgitation of the product of others, Media Information Age BS, it is called, is like the funniest thing I've read all week.
I'd pay eight American dollars to see the email Pasadenan sent Russ Hatfield about it. Just for the entertainment value. That would be Media.
- REisBroken
- Contributions:21
It is quite distracting. A person expects a link to fit with the content of the message, so when it links to marketing nonsense it's rather irritating.
- Angie Boggeman, "angie boggeman"
- Contributions:518
I have not noticed this. However, now that I have knowledge I will keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the heads up.
- Dunes ..
- Contributions:3688
Once you see it Angie then what?
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26042
1) There is a 2 day delay on the auto-links... I have no idea why, so when one "tests", one must come back to check.
2) Some words/phrases only link in some discussion categories; not all.
3) A better solution rather than intentionally mis-spelling, is to do the same work-around used for the "reserved words and phrases"; specifically substitute normal ASCII vowel characters with the Russian Equivalent using the Windows Character Map program.
Here is what I originally wrote that Russ responded to:
It was tried by Zillow before, and it was abandoned. And now it has
been back about a week, and is very annoying and misleading.
Such auto links for words/phrases as:
Real Estate Agent - Zillow directory
Realtors - Zillow directory
Realtor - Zillow directory
Origination Fee - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
interest rates - ZMM quote request page
Borrower - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
appraisers - Zillow directory appraisers
appraiser - Zillow directory appraisers
mortgage brokers - Zillow directory lenders
loans - ZMM quote request page
loan - ZMM quote request page
credit report - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
HUD - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
lender - Zillow directory lenders
lenders - Zillow directory lenders
Refinancing - ZMM help center
Refinance - ZMM help center
mortgage - ZMM quote request page
mortgages - ZMM quote request page
30 year Mortgage - ZMM help center
Title Insurance - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
First, it is not at all clear without a mouse over that the poster did not provide those links, but Zillow did. This makes it much harder to see the links that the posters provide, and whether it may actually be helpful content on the discussion subject.
Second, and more importantly, the use of the words are often context dependent, and the Zillow auto link substitutions does not have the ability to read nor comprehend the context.
Such as 30 year Mortgage Backed Securities. If one was going to do a Glossary look up or a link to the help center, the correct term to have been referenced was MBS or "Mortgage Backed Securities", not "30 year mortgage". A similar problem exists with the word "lender" as the context is usually the one funding the loan (occasionally the party servicing the loan), but the link is to the directory of Loan Officers.
Third, the links don't seem to be consistent about where it is sending one:
1) A definition
2) A directory
3) A help file or FAQ
4) A quote request (which may be an old quote that has nothing to do with the subject)
I suggest the idea be scrapped again. But if you really believe it is helpful for SEO or something else, then perhaps have those links shown in green instead? And do a better job filtering the context and being consistent on how those links work?
Thanks!
2) Some words/phrases only link in some discussion categories; not all.
3) A better solution rather than intentionally mis-spelling, is to do the same work-around used for the "reserved words and phrases"; specifically substitute normal ASCII vowel characters with the Russian Equivalent using the Windows Character Map program.
Here is what I originally wrote that Russ responded to:
It was tried by Zillow before, and it was abandoned. And now it has
been back about a week, and is very annoying and misleading.
Such auto links for words/phrases as:
Real Estate Agent - Zillow directory
Realtors - Zillow directory
Realtor - Zillow directory
Origination Fee - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
interest rates - ZMM quote request page
Borrower - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
appraisers - Zillow directory appraisers
appraiser - Zillow directory appraisers
mortgage brokers - Zillow directory lenders
loans - ZMM quote request page
loan - ZMM quote request page
credit report - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
HUD - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
lender - Zillow directory lenders
lenders - Zillow directory lenders
Refinancing - ZMM help center
Refinance - ZMM help center
mortgage - ZMM quote request page
mortgages - ZMM quote request page
30 year Mortgage - ZMM help center
Title Insurance - Zillow Mortgage Glossary
First, it is not at all clear without a mouse over that the poster did not provide those links, but Zillow did. This makes it much harder to see the links that the posters provide, and whether it may actually be helpful content on the discussion subject.
Second, and more importantly, the use of the words are often context dependent, and the Zillow auto link substitutions does not have the ability to read nor comprehend the context.
Such as 30 year Mortgage Backed Securities. If one was going to do a Glossary look up or a link to the help center, the correct term to have been referenced was MBS or "Mortgage Backed Securities", not "30 year mortgage". A similar problem exists with the word "lender" as the context is usually the one funding the loan (occasionally the party servicing the loan), but the link is to the directory of Loan Officers.
Third, the links don't seem to be consistent about where it is sending one:
1) A definition
2) A directory
3) A help file or FAQ
4) A quote request (which may be an old quote that has nothing to do with the subject)
I suggest the idea be scrapped again. But if you really believe it is helpful for SEO or something else, then perhaps have those links shown in green instead? And do a better job filtering the context and being consistent on how those links work?
Thanks!
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26042
And here is what I wrote in response to Russ' response that I never got a response to:
11/21/11 11:00 AM
I certainly hope that Zillow doesn't go with the pop-ups in the
discussion content!
It is clear that many are not reading the content before posting as it
is. Pop-ups will only make it harder to read, and even less likely
that people will read before posting.
When I've seen sites that use pop-up advertisements on keywords, I
haven't gone back to those sites. Especially if the advertisements
seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the keywords.
11/21/11 11:00 AM
I certainly hope that Zillow doesn't go with the pop-ups in the
discussion content!
It is clear that many are not reading the content before posting as it
is. Pop-ups will only make it harder to read, and even less likely
that people will read before posting.
When I've seen sites that use pop-up advertisements on keywords, I
haven't gone back to those sites. Especially if the advertisements
seemed to have absolutely nothing to do with the keywords.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26042
By the way, that list is no where near exhaustive. I've seen at least 3 others. I was going to keep a list updated, but I got sidetracked and didn't write the others I've seen down.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
Thanks - nice recap Pasa
as far as "key" words.......I saw "plumber" and "contractor" also turned into links to zillow-listed vendors.
I must say, I agree with Hamp, in that it IS amusing to see someone with a negative opinion of realtors, use the word REALTOR in a post, and have it direct people to a list promoting..........Realtors!!
:)
as far as "key" words.......I saw "plumber" and "contractor" also turned into links to zillow-listed vendors.
I must say, I agree with Hamp, in that it IS amusing to see someone with a negative opinion of realtors, use the word REALTOR in a post, and have it direct people to a list promoting..........Realtors!!
:)
- Dunes ..
- Contributions:3688
OK..here's the deal
For the first time I decided to read the Thread I was posting on and as I was reading I came to a part of a Sentence a Poster made that really bothers me
"is a Load of CRAP..."
Now for the sake of avoiding argument let's forget what is a..and focus on "is a Load of CRAP..."
Now I've had a tad of interaction with this Russ fella and imo he didn't need to be addressed that way, it could have been toned down to a civil level...
Now the guy who said it could say it was in the heat of the moment or or or but the bottom line is it was not very Respectful or acceptable in my Opinion for a Forum
Especially since the Dweeb who said it blah blahs about being Civil and Sniping if given half a chance...
I'm not trying to make this a can't say anything thing... but in this Specific case I think the GNP was abused..
I'm flagging that Bozo ...hope ya join me
OK I can't flag him because I can't find the Flag but someone should
For the first time I decided to read the Thread I was posting on and as I was reading I came to a part of a Sentence a Poster made that really bothers me
"is a Load of CRAP..."
Now for the sake of avoiding argument let's forget what is a..and focus on "is a Load of CRAP..."
Now I've had a tad of interaction with this Russ fella and imo he didn't need to be addressed that way, it could have been toned down to a civil level...
Now the guy who said it could say it was in the heat of the moment or or or but the bottom line is it was not very Respectful or acceptable in my Opinion for a Forum
Especially since the Dweeb who said it blah blahs about being Civil and Sniping if given half a chance...
I'm not trying to make this a can't say anything thing... but in this Specific case I think the GNP was abused..
I'm flagging that Bozo ...hope ya join me
OK I can't flag him because I can't find the Flag but someone should
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
well........I am not going to flag him, because his enthusiasm here is appreciated and I am sure his apology will be accepted.......so let him know it's ok....
actually, I am still patiently waiting for someone from zillow to respond!.
actually, I am still patiently waiting for someone from zillow to respond!.
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:39658
@ T of W: one can't flag one's own post. Perhaps it was your evil twin.
@ Debbie: Perhaps they have to have meetings and more meetings and then a few more on the subject to come up with a response. I don't think much slips by, but responses require "careful consideration".
@ Debbie: Perhaps they have to have meetings and more meetings and then a few more on the subject to come up with a response. I don't think much slips by, but responses require "careful consideration".
- Dunes ..
- Contributions:3688
Naw.. it was me that's why when I found out I can't I was hoping to find someone who can then if they would Flag it would be the same as if I could
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26042
Here is a link to a thread I started on the subject on 11/21/11.
Home prices auto link?
Though a views to post ratio of 27; it didn't generate much interest in commenting on the issue. And I see the "correction" I tried to make was still type wrong with the words out of order.
Home prices auto link?
Though a views to post ratio of 27; it didn't generate much interest in commenting on the issue. And I see the "correction" I tried to make was still type wrong with the words out of order.
- Debra (Debbie) Rose, "Livingston NJ"
- Contributions:3274
pasa maybe the term "auto link" just flew over people's heads........I didn't quite "get" what zillow was doing until I just noticed it on my own posts...........I read one of my posts and said (to myself):
"Hey, when...and why did I create THAT link"??
(at my age, I can forget things!)
Then the lightbulbs went off in my head...and I figured it out!
"Hey, when...and why did I create THAT link"??
(at my age, I can forget things!)
Then the lightbulbs went off in my head...and I figured it out!
- Dunes ..
- Contributions:3688
I think for a lot of the Marketing Expert Agents/Lenders Zillow only has to say
"Blah Blah SEO yadda SEO blah 5,000,000 Leads Blah yadda SEO blahblah Stupid Consumer needs education yadda FREE yadda all the SMART Agents Blah blah FREE"
and they are good with it..cause they are Marketing Experts
- wetdawgs
- Contributions:39658
@Debbie: auto links have visited the thread, scroll through.
- Pasadenan
- Contributions:26042
Just wondering if HAMP paid anyone $8 yet for my posting the Email I sent Russ? Perhaps he paid Debbie since I posted the Email content for her before I read that HAMP wanted to pay $8 to see the content?
It looks like there will need to be another pass of the autolink generator on this thread tomorrow due to all those key words/phases in the E-mail content posted yesterday.
It looks like there will need to be another pass of the autolink generator on this thread tomorrow due to all those key words/phases in the E-mail content posted yesterday.
Zillow Creating Links from agents and consumer's Responses
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- Write a review
Contributions:3274Why would Zillow alter anyone's comments, giving the impression that the person created the link?
I feel it is totally improper that you make it look as though I am the one promoting the source of the link.......if this is another new idea here that you continue to expand on ...I will not be participating any longer.
I don't like my personal responses used for another purpose.
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