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regarding bank appraisals vs. asking prices

Profile picture for wenchypoo
I needed more room to post my question than the regular question space allowed. 

I hear banks are killing deals when the house appraises for less than the asking/selling price, which makes sense in this time of caution.  But I'm finding many homes in my area that are asking as much as $80k over the Zillow comps (I know comps are local, and Zillow doesn't necessarily keep up or take every single thing into account).  I spoke to my own agent about this, and she offered to verify my Zillow comps--she told me they were within a $5k ballpark.

If this is true, then why aren't agents having a heart-to-heart with their clients about how much their houses are REALLY worth according to comps, to form a realistic asking price, instead of pulling numbers out of the air and sitting on the MLS for a year, waiting and hoping someone stupid and rich comes along with about $80k to lose?  Is it because final selling price determines commissions (of which they always want more), or is it because the banks can make more money by over-financing?

Isn't the object of selling to price the house right for a quick sale?  If this is the case, then why are so many homes destined to linger on the MLS simply because agents don't have the guts to tell homeowners what they least want to hear?

At this point, I thank god for Zillow's comps--at least now I know I can suss out the REAL market value of a home and better formulate a bid that the banks aren't likely to turn down!
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July 02 - US

Replies (12)

Profile picture for nvchaz
Contributions: 1617
Actually, i think it is less complicated than that. Most REAs don't have a clue about what's going on. No fault on them... most of them are not rocket scientists and most of them don't expend the energy to try to figure realistic values.
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July 02
Profile picture for An OrderLee Home
Contributions: 712
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Since April 2009

And here I am thinking all RE agents are retired rocket scientists!

Wenchypoo, congrats on living in a location where you can use zestimate as a guideline.  Because zestimates are based on averages, in many locations they are skewed by local conditions.

In theory, a seller' or buyer's relationship with an agent should begin with a cma - a report on comps that includes local information not available to zillow.  The seller should utilize the cma information in setting the price, and even in assessing how and if they can afford to sell.  I think that is the theory. 
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July 03
Profile picture for jkonstant
Real Estate Agent
Contributions: 1503
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Since May 2009

There is an old saying in this business. "You have to list to live." So much of an agents success relies on the ability to market themselves. If an agent can have his or her name all over the place, they must be successful. In fact, often they are because they get the calls from buyers who see the name on the sign or the internet ad. Agents capture buyer leads through listings which are generally very inexpensive advertising costs.
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July 03
Profile picture for Preston Ware
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I think the root of the problem is that agents either don't know any better or they want to tell the client what they want to hear. If they tell the client the house is worth $60,000 less, they won't have a chance to even get the listing.
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July 03
Here's another side of the story: Sellers often want to offer the property at unrealistic prices for reasons such as:

"I NEED to get $x out of the house in order to move to Happy Hills Retirement Home."
The seller has used his home as a ATM machine and withdrawn all the equity in loans, and now must either bring money to his lenders at closing, or try to get more than the market will bear for his house in the current market.
"Well, it was worth $XXXXXX when I had it appraised for a refinance 5 years ago."
"Let's try it at $xxxx and see what happens."
And on and on.

Agents need to have the facts to show the sellers, but many sellers do not want to listen.  I think it's a waste of my time to take a listing that is so overpriced that the appropriate buyer will never see it in their searches.  Agents must have the courage to refuse overpriced listings OR get an agreement in writing that the seller will periodically lower their price when there is not a reasonable amount of interest (showings, inquiries) at the price they are at.

Theo Shaw
Baird & Warner
Evanston, IL
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July 04
And ultimately, it's the seller that sets the price.  The agent is required by law to obey the seller's wishes and look out for their interests.  The agent can choose not to take an overpriced listing, or try to work with the seller to see the reality and change the price.
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July 04
You are submitting offers based on zillow zestimates?
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July 04
Profile picture for FinancialResources
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Contributions: 33
Great comments by Preston....

Important to note that appraisals are an OPINION of what the value is.
Each time a home sells in an area, the next appraisal could be affected.

Also many homes have distinct local values that a national appraisal service wouldn't understand.

For example the exact same home, 2 blocks away may have different taxes, different school systems, closer to train tracks, electrical wires etc.



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July 04
Nathan is 100% correct...
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July 05
I didn't even touch on the comment "I thank god for Zillow's comps--at least now I know I can suss out the REAL market value of a home." 

In the Chicago area, where I am, you can have single family homes, vintage 6-flat condo conversions, new construction, and a townhouse all on the same block.  It can't tell if a property has a garage, or a swimming pool.  It can't see if the building has been gut rehabbed or still maintains the 1940's "charm" that the original owners kept intact.  Zillow cannot tell that a property has an auto repair shop next door or if there is a noisy tavern or a crack house downstairs of a condo.

Zillow can't tell one from the other--it only sees the assessor's square footage (often inaccurate here in Cook County) and historical sold prices.  Those are NOT the ingredients for determining "REAL market value." 

I would think that Zillow would excel in suburban subdivisions, where all homes were built about the same time, are the same size, and construction type.  I do know that Zillow's estimates can be as much as $100,000 too high or too low here.

The only thing I use Zillow for is to find For Sale by Owners that have sold in the area.  It's hard to locate those properties otherwise.

Theo Shaw
Baird & Warner
Evanston, IL
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July 05
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
Contributions: 5867
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Since January 2009

and dont assume that zillow has ALL the comps either... if you want to make an offer, find the listing agent and DEMAND her comps...  then you come back with your own comps and an offer( and a check always looks nice)
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July 05
let's say you bought in '05 for $350K and comps are now $225K due to forclosure sales. are you that compliant that you'd simply accept a 35% hit? is this what you mean by a 'heart-to-heart'?..........here's the solution to your angst: forget about what used to be and focus on what will be. the really smart folks know they'll take a hit but they're buying far greater near-future equity with low-ball money......think of it this way, you are actually in a time-machine! you can buy stuff for prices you won't see in another 100 years............if are you a glass-half-empty kind of person this process will just whoosh by you.
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July 07
 

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