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why is the newly-announced $6500 tax credit only for people that have owned their home 5 of 8 years?

Both the house and senate have agreed to extend the $8000 first-time homebuyer tax credit through May 1st, 2010. In addition, ANY homeowner that's lived in their home for 5 of the past 8 years can now also claim a $6,500 rebate as well.
This is big news for those of us in the real estate community, as this credit seems to be the driving motivation behind a large percentage of recent home-buying decisions.  But, has anyone heard an explanation why the "must have owned for 5 of the past 8 years" requirement is attached to the $6500?
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November 06 - Athens
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Profile picture for Pasadenan
Contributions: 6670
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Since January 2009

If "normal" means 7% annual inflation (the dollar loses 50% of its value every decade), then "Normal" would mean 4 times the price of 2 decades ago.  But in this area, the prices are still 4.5 times what they were 2 decades ago, thus 7.83% annual inflation.  And the government keeps claiming inflation is less than 3%.

Therefore, we are not at "normal" prices on that basis yet.

The only way it could be considered "normal" is that it is "present market value", which if one shops clearance and discounts regularly, they know that "present market value" is not "normal" price.

Sure, sucker some more people into over-paying and being trapped into losing all their equity and down payment.  It won't make any difference.  We are in a "throw away" society anyway, and "I want it now no matter the cost" mentality.
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November 12
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PolluxGold

Wellesley Hills, MA

Contributions: 15
Sadly, I agree with Walty804, we're on NORMAL prices...

I did some more research on the Issue of the eligibility for the $6500 credit, here is a very helpful link:

http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/taxes/10-things-you-should-know-about-the-new-homebuyer-credit/
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November 12
Profile picture for Walty804
Contributions: 1660
 "Getting home prices back to normal in my neighborhood is the ONLY thing that will help me ever move up to a bigger home."

I hate to break it to you....we are at NORMAL prices now!


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November 12
Profile picture for Pasadenan
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"I don't understand how this $6,500 tax credit will help people who bought within the last 5 years" -

It is NOT supposed to!  It is only supposed to help the lending institutions that are on the verge of insolvency, and as a side benifit, help out a few realtors and loan officers, and help out some local governments for their property tax base.

No one intended it to help home buyers.  That was just a propaganda thing to help sell the idea and to allow the legislators to have an excuse to tell their constituents when they asked why they were wasting so much money.
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November 10
Profile picture for Pasadenan
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Since January 2009

Maybe, if you sell and buy before April 2010...

Call the IRS to ask them; it is their responsibility to answer such questions... (800)829-1040.  And they are NOT just open 8 AM to 9 PM, but round the clock, most days of the year.
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November 10
Profile picture for Glenie18
I bought my house in September 2004 Am I eligible for the$6500 tax rebate?
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November 10
Profile picture for MacPenguin
I don't understand how this $6,500 tax credit will help people who bought within the last 5 years. Many of us who purchased at that time are too underwater to get out of our homes and "move-up" anyway. My husband and I were first-time homebuyers five years ago now need a larger home to start a family and now were stuck. A measley $6,500 doesn't do anything. Getting home prices back to normal in my neighborhood is the ONLY thing that will help me ever move up to a bigger home. This is whole program is a complete waste and it does not appear to be doing any good for the housing makret in my area.
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November 10
Profile picture for sunnyview
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Since January 2009

I don't think that you would be eligible for the $6500 because you have not owned your current primary residence long enough to be able to buy another house and get the credit (less than 5 years). You would have been eligible if you have not bought yet and were still in the five year house, but the credit is not retroactive and you bought in Aug 2009 so I think you may be out of luck. Sorry :(

 
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November 10
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PolluxGold

Wellesley Hills, MA

Contributions: 15
You both are right, thanks, however, on my first post: I am the OWNER of the first house and I still own it, I just rented it to someone else to buy another property as my primary residence.

Hope this changes the view on my question, as in the way it was phrased it was indeed a very long shot....
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November 10
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
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Since October 2009

LOL Pasa.....
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November 10
Profile picture for Pasadenan
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Not to mention, what would be the point of making the law retroactive?  The only reason congress passed the law is to put money in the hands of the mega financial institutions so that the FDIC wouldn't have to pay any insurance payments to depositors when financial institutions go under from not being able to liquidate the foreclosures.

So how would giving you the tax credit hand that money over to the lenders since you already made your commitment to the lenders?
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November 09
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
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Sorry Pollux, it was if you OWNED your home.....renters are helping pay for this bailout but get nothing but the one time credit when they buy a falling asset. 
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November 09
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PolluxGold

Wellesley Hills, MA

Contributions: 15
Is this $6500 credit going to be retroactive in any way for this year? We bought and moved to a new place this August '09, having lived in our previous home for 5 years (we rented it), so we wonder if once taxes are filed, we would be entitled to receive such amount...

I know, it's a long shot, but who knows, it's worth to ask anyhow. Thanks in advance!
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November 09
Profile picture for frisky1
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I wonder if you are more of a sucker buying during the bubble (04-07 depending on where you are) when most people had blinders on and ignorance was bliss. Or now when we've all had at least 2 years to learn a lesson.
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November 09
Profile picture for jimmy57
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I suppose the intention of the new qualification is provide cover for politicians, who don't want to give the appearance of giving money to speculators.

Too bad they aren't (yet) embarrassed to be seen giving the RE industry this "bail-out" to generate sales on the backs of naive buyers (many of whom are shopping in markets with still-inflated prices). 

This all just delays the inevitable.  REAs will discover they have simply robbed from future demand.  And after the next step down in prices, the public confidence in housing as an investment will really be shattered.

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November 09
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
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Wow Klarek.....my landlord paid $430K but his taxes have almost doubled since he bought it......that is why my rent is just over $2K.   Oh well, I get a lot of bang for my buck ;-p
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November 09
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
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Everyone pays an income tax Philip, did you possibly mean that renters should pay a property tax?  The property tax on my rental is paid by defacto with my rent $.....I don't pay rent to the landlord perhaps he doesn't have enough money to pay mortage and taxes.   What you are implying is a double tax, one for the landlord and one for the renter....uh, I don't think so.  No one would rent SFHs (very bad idea).  I would prefer to rent an apartment from a huge conglomerate and be done with that, cause there is no way they would try and put an additional tax on that.....talk about a lobbyist dream....they would kill it though the NAR would love it cause maybe people would decide it is better to buy cause of a little tax bump......
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November 09
Profile picture for BayviewMortgage
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Earlier they were talking about that 105,000 dollar home in a good school district in Texas. The property taxes on that home would be over 4500 per year. So buying in Texas or owning income property isn't very smart. A renter would pay less than 1000 per month to rent that home and if it had granite and stainless steele the house would go for 1200 per month. On top of that. We are in the Tornado alley. so the home owners insurance would be 150 to 250 per month. Depending on claims in the area.
The non-property owner would still not have to pay state income taxes.
In my opinion. I would asses an income tax on all nonproperty owners in Texas.
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November 09
Profile picture for klarek the realist
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Same here.  I'm paying $1400/mo on a house the landlord bought for $460k.  Do the math on that, Cindy, and tell me what a "killing" my landlord is making.  What a joke. 
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November 09
Profile picture for Lady Chattel
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My landlord isn't making jack chit off of me, his ROI is quite low, he would have been better off putting the money into an investment fund and earning simple interest.   As a renter I have a higher disposable income than ALL of my neighbors.....guess that is a contribution since I can save more and spend more, we are able to live off one income and still make more than all the two income familes that live around me just to be "owners".....perhaps their contribution to the economy is they have to work two jobs to afford the home and therefore help sustain the daycare industry.  


I would rather RENT if it means I stay home with my kids........
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November 09
Profile picture for klarek the realist
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The estimate cost of the combined "tax credit" programs is in excess of $20 billion.  Let's compare that to our humanitarian foreign aid programs:

(CSH) Child Survival and Health Programs Fund $1.251
   
(DA) Development Assistance $1.103

(ESF) Economic Support Fund $3.036
   
(GHAI) Global HIV/AIDS Initiative $1.97

(INCLE) Internat. Narcotics Control & Law Enforcement $0.523

(MRA) Migration and Refugee Assistance $0.892

(PKO) Peacekeeping Operations $0.195

(SEED) Assistance for Eastern Europe $0.382

That is excluding the military funding.  Including that amount, the total figure still falls below how much we're paying people to buy houses they a) were going to buy anyway or be b) shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't buy without it.  Some pretty F-ed up priorities if you ask me.
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November 09
Profile picture for klarek the realist
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Cindy: "renting doesn't help the economy like buying does"

It doesn't shock me to hear another economically stupid remark from an agent.  Time for a quick Econ 101 lesson:

GDP, the yardstick for economic productivity, can be measured in one of two ways.  The expenditure method, C + I + G + X, and the income method, R + I + P + SA + W.  That 'R' = Rents.  It's a very important part of our economy.  Buying a used house, that is transferring property from one person to another, adds nothing to our economy.  It just creates income for the over-priced pencil-pushing sycophants that happen to be the same ones out there urging people to buy-and-sell, and to extend the tax credit.

So don't lecture about which "helps" the economy when what you really mean is which helps your industry.  And no, those two are not the same.  Advocates of your industry have pushed for more legislation that is damaging our economy than any other I can think of in recent history. 
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November 09
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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speculators are still here, they just aren't trading derivatives. (well, they are... but maybe they are being more cautious about it, you think?)

this doesnt "help" anybody to keep their home, if they are going to lose it, its not because they were 6500 short of up-sizing. period.

maybe it helps realtors and mortgage brokers keep their homes, but in general? it is only helping the banks.
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November 08
Profile picture for BayviewMortgage
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This keeps the speculators out of the process. They were the whole problem to the mortgage meltdown.
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November 08
Profile picture for Walty804
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I do not really believe in the bail outs 100%. 1/2 of me thinks we should just let the bottom hit on its own and 1/2 of me thinks that helping people stay in thier homes is right. I am kind of stuck between gloom and cheer on this issue.

The fact is that we are in a bail out of sorts. The challange is going to be who is it actually going to help?

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November 08
Profile picture for TiffanyBond
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Since August 2009

Cindy:

I think a lot of the frustration you experience is because you are looking at these posts through the lens of your local market and not general national trends. Obviously, there are going to be exceptions to some of these trends. For example, there are areas of Philly that a ridiculously cheap...I am purchasing my house for less than 1/2 of rent per month, including PITI. But these exceptions are exceptions. So when someone calls shenanigans on a theory or a policy that helps a very small percentage of the country and harms the vast majority, it might be a policy or theory that either helps you or doesn't apply to your very local market.

You often make good points for segments of your local market, which you have noted is in Texas. But many of these posts are general to the US or in another part of the country where your market has no bearing.
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November 08
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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no, actually the 8000 credit reduces the losses on the foreclosure sale by the fractional reserve rate, so instead of a 50000 write-off and the need to scrape together another 100,000 to cover their reserve requirements, they have a 42,000 writeoff and need only scrape together 84,000. it still does essentially nothing unless you can show that that money is getting into the economy. every study i have seen, even the ones done by obama and the banks themselves show the opposite. more hoarding, less lending... that's why the monetary base is as high as it is right now, if the fed hadn't open the flood gates, almost all the money in the economy would be in the bank's reserves by now.
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November 08
Profile picture for frisky1
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Without the first time buyers stimulus, that 105k home would be a 97k home (or less).  The tax credit is a mechanism for everyone in a real estate transaction except the buyer to have a little extra money right now to spend. The deception is to make buyers believe it benefits them so they come to the table and create a real estate transaction. So instead of Lady Chattel saving money and paying down debt, she slightly overpays for a house so her seller, locksmith, and agent can buy beer and cigarettes to help the economy.

Now with tax credits for many, we'll either see prices rise a little more esp in higher priced homes or plunge as all the shadow sellers throw their houses on the market. Doesn't make a lot of sense to buy during so much turmoil. oh yeah, the defacto unemployment rate is now over 17% and we still have no real reform in the financial markets. There are deals out there--for maybe 1 out of 1000 people. Everyone else should stay where they are and wait for the Mayan calender to end in 2012.

And what criteria does the Texas Real Estate Commission use to determine a "great school district"? I'm pretty sure RE agents characterizing school systems as good or bad is highly illegal. Unless Texas seceeded from the country and I missed it.
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November 08
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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never said the home didnt exist, i said home prices will continue to fall untill that kind of a deal is business as usual.

i know texas medians and they are way above 105k, but i think you've got the target right... in a few years... well lets just say the gold-bugs have been around since the 80s, and god bless them, gold will top 2000/ounce... eventually

@ dolly, no, unfortunately not unless you sell and buy again like a month after your 5 year anniversary.

@ cindy, I was only saying that there are expenses that come with owning a home that you don't have when you rent.

that isnt what you said, you said it was cheaper, but whatever. does it really matter whether the landlord is fixing the garbage disposal, or i am? it gets fixed, home depot gets the money... there is no effect on the economy.

also if its an organic sale, the home would be owned either way, the lawn would get mowed either way, and little jimmy down the street would make his 10 bucks either way... that is, unless you want to discourage poor jimmy from starting his own lawn-mowing business. is that what you want?

okay, you get the point. stop trying to make this about emotion. makes you look bad. (both of you)
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November 08
Profile picture for Caveat Emptor
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Yes, buying a home is NOT calculated in GDP, but buying a home is help very much for the economy, the people bought their home actually change the locks, renew the grass on the back and front yards, change the floor carpet or woods, etc... There are needed of the transports, financials etc..., yes they counted in the GDP and these help very much.

i hate to tell you this, but if they arent busy changing the locks on a home, they'll still be out scarfing pizza or saving their money in a bank, both of which also effect the economy. your point is irrational.

Even with the cashiers are still proud with their math, then I think the Americans should be also proud with their math.

were you on your high school's debate team? i can usually tell these things.
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November 08

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