Bold Steps From Century 21’s Marketers

16 Comments so far

1. Bob on January 15, 2009 2:43 pm

   Most realtors I have spoken to view Zillow with a healthy dose of contempt. Low zestimates based on outdated, incomplete information — and Zillow’s inability to somehow force participation of more owners — lead to misunderstanding that could queer any deal. Many buyers don’t know what an algorithm is and how it works — or in Zillow’s case, how it often DOESN’T WORK. If a home hasn’t changed hands in the last 10 years, if it is a custom-built home, or a newly built home, or one built on the site of an older home that was torn down, Zillow can’t begin to calculate a zestimate of fair market value. This puts the agent in the position of trying to “educate” the buyer as to why the Zillow zestimate is misleading at best in many cases, and even hundreds of thousand off in others. Is this helpful to the buyer who is actually looking for a home or for the owner who wants to sell one or for the agent who is trying to bring the minds of the two together? The answer is a resounding “no.” Until or unless Zillow finds some way of reflecting in its zestimates expert appraisal and comparative market analyses performed by professionals in their local communities, then it is more of a hindrance than a help to hard-working realtors doing their best to service their clients and restore the market to good health. Right now, Zillow is best serving bottom feeders and groups of investor sharks out to make a killing by7 exploiting the misfortune of others. For the vast majority of Americans, home is still “where the heart is,” — the place where they want to raise children or where they dream of retiring to reap just rewards of a lifetime of hard work. Their home is still for most Americans their largest single investment, and they want to believe that when buying a new home, to actually live in, they will find there true blessings. Most realtors want to be a part of that happy process, not of serving cutthroats now so eager to “buy low,” sell high when the economy recovers. Until then, Zillow should be soliciting ad business only from the cutthroats it serves who apparently respect this service is doing.

2. Joan Kinkade on January 15, 2009 3:34 pm

   Bob -

   Check out Zillow’s promo for “by owner” advertising. Note how the “aking price” of 349,500 on the sample by owner add EXACTLY MATCHES the Zillow zestimate of $349,500. (Is THAT itself deceptive advertsing or what?) Now imagine the owner has obtained an appraisal and CMAs and accordingly priced their home SUBSTANTIALLY BELOW fair market value at 1,595,000, but their zestimate shows 1,250,000. Whoah — slight disconnect there, wouldn’t you say? Why would such an owner advertise on Zillow: t’wud be FAR MOR GRIEF than even 436 clicks might be worth. I kid you not: Check out real estate in Fountain Hills, AZ.

3. David G from Zillow.com on January 15, 2009 3:39 pm

   Hi Bob,

   Home may be where the heart is but a house is also most people’s largest investment. Ignoring the value of the home you plan to buy is irresponsible no matter how strongly you feel about the place. If Zillow is reminding buyers to ask questions about home values, that’s certainly very good news, thank you!

   In my experience, people are smarter than you suggest. They understand that Zestimate are estimates - we couldn’t exactly have make that any more obvious. I also find that most Realtors don’t share your attitude towards “educating buyers.” They understand that it’s not only an important part of their job but it’s time well spent because it gives them an opportunity to demonstrate their expertise. A Realtor who knows their stuff should not lose a debate over a Zestimate value. You’re right in that Zestimates are definitely a conversation starter but most of the Realtors that I speak welcome that conversation.

   I guess it depends on your perspective. Please keep an open mind on this and also check out some of the other services on Zillow - like Mortgages, Advice etc.

4. Terri Banish on January 15, 2009 3:49 pm

   I agree that these days you cannot expect zillow to be able to do a valuation, there are too many bank owned properties and short sales trying to get attention by lowering prices.
   Homeowners now more than ever should consult with a realtor before they try to market their property.

5. David G from Zillow.com on January 15, 2009 3:55 pm

   Joan -

   Easy on the conspiracy theory! Zillow does not recommend pricing your home at the Zestimate value. In fact, you will find many, many more Realtor posted listings on Zillow where the list price is almost exactly the same as the Zestimate but there again, there is no conspiracy.

   If you check out the listings on Zillow you’ll find the answer to your question. When a listing is advertised on the site, we understand that the list price is more important than the Zestimate value and so it replaces the Zestimate value on the maps and at the top of the home detail page. Because Zillow is a database of ALL homes, a home that is on the market is on our site and will be visited by buyers whether or not it’s advertised on Zillow. Most listing agents like to ensure that the home is well marketed when buyers check its Zestimate. 5,8 million people visited Zillow last month - it’s a great place to promote listings.

6. Joan Kinkade on January 15, 2009 3:58 pm

   Bob -

   I lied to you. We didn’t get 436 clicks in the last 5 weeks — we got 470 of them (somewhat “impressive”) BUT NOT A SINGLE “lead” or prospect so far from Zillow. How’s that for performance?

   I disagree heartily with David G of Zillow.com. My son-in-law has an MBA from Cal Berkeley and even he can’t understand why there is such disparity between the zestimate and not only appraisal done by state-licensed expert in August 2008 but CMAs done by top local realtors in September, October, and November, 2008. No realtor I know wants to talk much about Zillow zestimates: to zem ze zervice zucks!

7. David G from Zillow.com on January 15, 2009 4:27 pm

   Joan -

   With software there is always a chance that there’s an error. If you think that’s what’s happened here, please send me the address of the home in question (davidg AT zillow DOTCOM) so that we can investigate it. If there’s no software bug I’ll try to send you a good explanation.

   When it comes to home values in the current market I’m also trying to remind folks not to shoot the messenger. I understand how tough it can be for a seller whose home’s been sitting on the market and who is now playing the blame game with their agent. It’s a REALLY tough market. When I speak with sellers, I try to help them to get over the arbitrary things they’re blaming for the fact that their home hasn’t sold and focused on doing those things that will actually speed up their sale.

8. Joan Kinkade on January 15, 2009 4:38 pm

   David G:

   “Ignoring the value of the home you plan to buy is irresponsible . . .”

   No one here is talking about ignoring the value of the home you plan to buy. We are talking about ignoring the “zestimate.”

   You say that the list price replaces the zestimate on the map (which, BTW, is many years out of date, with many properties mislocated on it) and at the top of the home detail page, but there’s that dumb zestimate again and a chart below, “showing” that the “value” of the home started plummeting before it was even built and was supposedly more than $500,000 below expert appraisal AT THE EXACT SAME TIME THE APPRAISAL was done.

   As to what is “irresponsible” about “knowing” or representing/misrepresenting the value of a home, I would say Zillow is the prime site of “Irresponsible R US.” (The R should be backwards too, of course.)

   Why doesn’t Zillow integtrate in its algorithm a place where you plug in CMA’s performed by local realtors on a monthly basis, identifying properties sold that are truly comps?

   All Zillow seems to do, in MY estimation of ITS value, is brag about “traffic” and how much misinformation it is disseminating daily about the value of homes. Few of my neighbors have even gone to the considerable bother of describe for Zillow the extensive improvements they have made in our neighborhood in the last several years. Where many homes haven’t changed hands (not everyone wants to move or play Zillow’s game), that’s the only way Zillow might even hope to zess at their worth. It’s an extremely deceptive picture these boys created by capturing public info and publishing misleading numbers. There outta be a law — or a least a class action lawsuit for all the grief and wasted time they’ve caused owners/seller all over the country. The disclaimers about zestimates just don’t cut it, when the zyztem remain nonresponsive to owner- or agent-provided facts.

   For sellers, “time is of the essence,” but Zillow’s lag time in responding even to its paying customer base is notorius. Now Zillowites are bragging about all the traffic on their Advice blog (see “December 2008 BANG,” not a whimper) which often amounts to if not the blind leqading the blind, then the stupid leading the ignorant.

   Hey, at least there’s still “free speech.”

9. Joan Kinkade on January 15, 2009 5:07 pm

   David -

   My home has only been on the market about a month, on Zillow twentysome days, so I’m not exactly “desperate” or “blaming” anyone about why it hasn’t sold yet. If you want to see what home I’m talking about, go to http://www.arizonabestgolfproperties.com.

   (Your friend Drew has already promised to look into the matter, but I’m not holding my breath). Just how limited (what number) is Zillow staff, in tending owners, buyers, agents on 93 million homes?

   Are you aware that Zillow’s Home Fact Checklist form doesn’t even allow a box to check “golf course view”? That’s a pretty important feature here in Arizona, and your add line is way too limited to add much of importance. (Instead viewer learns, yes, “we got fans.”) You Zillowites really have a lot of work to do, but look at the bright side: at least you’re getting paid.

10. David G from Zillow.com on January 15, 2009 5:49 pm

    Hey Joan - don’t hold back, tell me how you really feel! Seriously though, there’s a few good nuggets of product feedback there, thank you.

    Regarding your listing, it’s clear why that Zestimate value is low. Zillow has not received updated County records since the home was rebuilt. You could easily correct this issue. Since problems can and do creep in to public home facts, Zillow enables sellers and listing agents to correct public records on the site. Your listing is still missing accurate square feet and that’s why the Zestimate value has not come up as much as your list price. From what I can tell, if you list the home with the correct square footage, the Zestimate could well exceed the list price. I am sorry about the data issue but it has a viable solution - and moving the house onto the golf course and posting funny photo’s is not it

11. Joan Kinkade on January 16, 2009 10:36 am

    David -

    I did provide accurate square feet of the newly built home — during the month of December — and patiently waited until the zestimate was supposedly “updated” on January 12, 2009.

    Afterward, January 13 or 14, I deleted most “home facts” from Zillow and moved the property, because I noticed how many others Zillow has mislocated on the map. You’ve got one home in the parking lot of Desert Canyon Golf Club and another located on the driving range. Makes “sense” under those conditions that mine should be in the golf course pond rather than on the picture of a “foundation” that hasn’t been so seen in the “real world” for several years. I am not the only Fountain Hills owner who has repeatedly asked Zillow to update the arial view — and that ought to be easy to do if you’ve got adequate staff.

    I think the reason my zestimate is so low is that the Zillow zesimates of properties on my street is very, unrelistically low. Where neighbors have been in a home many years and don’t go on Zillow to provide home improvement facts, then how would you know increased value by any other means than appreciation/depreciation of general market?

    In providing comps, the appraiser and realtors looked for new or newly new construction, similar size, and similar golf course views and amenitites. I also toured with realtors homes currently on the market that meet comp criteria. I’m absolutely convinced my home is fair market priced, and feedback from those who have seen it — including many successful realtors who specialize in “high end” homes — say it’s certainly not overpriced, but one of the best they’ve seen in 1.3-1.6 range, so . . .

    I feel I’ve done everything in my power to bring some light to the situation on Zillow. I first became aware of the “service” back in spring of 2007 when we probably didn’t even have the roof on yet. To be honest and outspoken — yes, thank you very much too — I don’t see all the “improvement” your PR people are claiming. If you had more staff and manned 24/7 phone lines, they’d be ringing off the hook 24/7, but you could actually achieve the kind of stellar performance you are claiming based on traffic alone. Frink and Barton certainly have the capital — if they “believe in” what they’re doing and the future utility of Zillow, why not make a better effort to do it right?

    I would gladly participate and pay to advertise on Zillow if I thought it was publishing accurate, up-to-date information. As I say, I’ve gotten a lot of traffic just through a touch of “comedy,” but I’d prefer to deal with the matter seriously.

12. Bob on January 16, 2009 5:44 pm

    I just clicked on a few relatively new properties for sale in Fountain Hills and noticed something interesting to say the least. A couple of them had no zestimate and no chart showing decline in value since constructed. One was on Tacony, one on Copper Ridge. The conspiracy plot thickens: both are listed by . . . you guessed it: Century 21.

13. David G from Zillow.com on January 16, 2009 5:50 pm

    Hi Bob -

    The listings without Zestimates are probably homes that were manually added by Zillow users or via listings data feeds. We can currently only calculate Zestimates for homes we have public records for. This feature is (also) unrelated to our advertising deal with C21.

    Again … no conspiracy …

14. Joan Kinkade on January 16, 2009 7:07 pm

    I’ve noticed another interesting phenomenon. Sometimes where there is public record of a prior sale, which seems to be the price of the lot, there may be a red asterisk and words to the effect that “This transaction is not included in the zestimate.” That approach might also work for tear-downs, where the last transaction was essentially the purchase of the lot (plus demolition costs). EXCEPT where there’s no public record, then Zillow seems to take the asking price as the point from which to show a downward trend. Maybe I shudda put mine on the market at the 1.875 appraisal figure three months ago to arrive at the “zestimate” we might all agree on now — work with me on this, David, I’m struggling to understand.

15. Bob on January 18, 2009 8:58 pm

    Joan -

    David didn’t answer your question but I can try to. Zillow supposedly had about 155 employees before it reduced force by 25%, leaving about 105 Zillowites, if that math is right, to respond to 93,000,000 owners who might want to correct false and misleading information that Zillow is publishing about their properties. Some owners have problems with a false sale history on their home, showing transaction that didn’t occur. Even when they provide correct information, the problem long goes uncorrected — Zillow doesn’t have the manpower to even try to correct all the sources of human error in the system.

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