For us, the $15,000 Tax Credit Conundrum Solved
By: Katie Curnutte, Zillow PR Manager | February 9, 2009
Last week, I wrote about my own, personal $15000 tax credit conundrum. You see, after my husband and I learned about the $15,000 tax credit in the works, we thought 2009 might be the year to jump into the housing market. We’re renters and we’ve sort of been on the fence lately, and the news about the possibility of such a big tax credit was the impetus for us to spend this past Sunday driving around and looking at Seattle open houses.
We looked at six homes for sale in Seattle — mostly single-family types, but a few townhouses in the neighborhood where we live now, Ballard. It was eye-opening. There were a lot of great homes in our price range, but many of them weren’t much bigger than the apartment we currently rent. And we’re taking a long view when it comes to buying. We want to be comfortable in our home for the next five years, at least.
Add to that the fact that we have inside information on two amazing homes (with big fenced yards for our dog) that will be coming up for rent when our lease is up this summer, and we decided now was not our time to buy. Especially since these homes won’t cost too much more in rent than we’re paying now.
But luckily for the housing market and the real estate agents who were staffing these open houses, we weren’t the only ones who were taking the first steps to becoming a homeowner this weekend. The open houses were PACKED. Agents were running out of those little booties the browsers have to put over their shoes. I spoke with a few of the agents, and they said that a lot of the potential buyers had mentioned the tax credit. Add to that the spring-like weather we had over the weekend, and many of those people who have been lurking on sites like Zillow for months seem to be coming out into the open.
We’ll see how many of them actually buy or, like us, decide to keep waiting. But the Seattle area’s housing market had a tough fourth quarter with home values falling 12.1% year-over-year, according to the Zillow Q4 Real Estate Market Reports, so the hope is that layoffs will slow and people will jump off the fence and buy. Circumstances aren’t quite right for us at the moment, but I’m sure they are for many others.
- Stumble it!
- Categories: 8000 tax credit
Comments
76 Comments so far
Enjoy this post? Subscribe to the Zillow Blog feed or get updates via e-mail
Courtney Cooper on February 9, 2009 5:38 pm
It has been busy all right! At least you didn’t get the snow:)
anon on February 9, 2009 7:46 pm
Exactly what we need right now- more testimonials telling people not to buy.
I think we all have PLENTY of places to turn to hear reasons to not buy anything.
Is it that difficult to find someone who IS buying so they can share their reasons and spread some positive buying stories?!?
John Kennedy on February 9, 2009 7:58 pm
With the depression that this country is currently in, a lot of people with decent credit simply don’t have the 3.5% down payment that is required. Sure the money can be gifted, but with the average person losing $30,000+ from their 401K retirement, there is not a lot of GIFT money lying around. Bring back NEHEMIAH!
The Number of Americans Denied
Access to Home ownership Since
Down payment assistance Was Eliminated October 1st:
228,020
OverThrow on February 9, 2009 9:43 pm
Houses are still overvalued. I’ve been locked out of the Southern California housing market for 8 years because of this. Many houses are still 100+K overvalued, so someone please tell me what a 15K credit is going to do for people in my position. NOTHING. Welcome to OBAMWORLD. Use my tax dollar to keep people in houses that I can’t afford and use my tax dollar to help other people get into overvalued houses. What doesn’t OBAMA understand about the fact that people are not buying because homes are overvalued.
Mike S on February 9, 2009 10:16 pm
To Overthrow, and others with a chip on their shoulder(s): Don’t blame our new President for the sins of the last one. And don’t blame our new President for 8++ years of GREED in the marketplace. The fact is that the very financial companies that the BUSH administration gave away OUR TAX MONEY to, are the same companies who are failing to make loans, and who made very bad loans for the past 8+ years. THAT is what drove up the home prices.
Obama has been in office for less than a month, and now you say that it’s HIS fault that you can’t get into the California housing market? Get real and stop listening to that fat bastard Limbaugh!
Oh, by the way, there are a lot of people out there trying to buy and who will take advantage of the tax credit eventually. But first the Obama crew needs to reverse some of the STUPID regs and practices that his predecessor’s nitwits put into place. These regs, which I know all too well because I was recently victimized by them, are the reasons that a lot more people cannot buy yet. It’s going to take more than a few months to undo the Bush damage.
And please don’t tell us that you really think that the Bush folks did us any good with all of the bullshit that they fed us. You CANNOT be that naive. A lot of stupid people still believe that Bush was good for the country. I’d like believe that you are not one of them.
OverThrow on February 9, 2009 11:07 pm
Typical comment by “Mike S” - Probably a Government worker with a big fat pension, benefits, and early retirement that no one else has, yet we all have to pay for. Let’s see. The typical (attempted) home owner in the last 8 years - “Duh, I make 50K and I actually think I can afford a 500K home. After all I deserve to live in an expensive house along with my SUV’s and go on all my vacations. The bills will never actually show up at my door.” I love the intelligience of the FAR LEFT that Mike is obviously part of. Great arguments that he presents. All name calling and no facts. What does Rush Limbaugh have to do with the overvalued hosuing market across the country, not just CA? The DEMS - the party of the stupid and the lazy. Hey Mike S, why don’t you get together with Chris Dodd and the rest of the DEMS that benefited directly from the housing crisis. The crisis that they were suppose to protect us against. How about going after your DEMS that actually forced into place lending that allowed people with no credit and no money to try to own an expensive house. As a matter of fact, why don’t you get with President Clinton and talk about the attacks on the Trade Towers back in the 90’s, the Cole being blown up, Somalia, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City, 5 terrorists caught red handed ready to blow up bridges in New York… and when you are done talking about old times you can lob some more missiles accidentally into Pakistan. What a joker Mr. Mike is. The day is coming. And it will come before the LEFT is allowed to take our arms away. Bye-bye Mikey.
OverThrow on February 9, 2009 11:11 pm
One more thing Mikey. It’s great that OBAMA is giving a 15k tax credit when the prices of houses across the country are overvalued by way more than that. OBAMA now gives his blessing to people to buy overvalued houses using my tax dollar. He wants to keep people in houses that people cannot afford them and wants to put other people into houses that they cannot afford. Thank God for our new Messiah! The new Messiah will be the ruination of our country and little Mikey will faithfully follow him over the cliff.
Mary Clarke on February 9, 2009 11:16 pm
My husband and I have been saving for years - also priced out of the southern california market - we are lower middle class with one income. We live in a Los Angeles suburb, and have been dismayed that despite our saving and saving, we were still NOWHERE near being able to afford a home. However, the home prices have come down significantly, enough that we were able to put in an offer on a short sale home. This tax credit would help us out tremendously!! It is a blessing to knwo that there is some relief. The mortagage + taxes etc will end up costing us only several hundred more than we are paying for our apartment. And with smart saving and credit preparation over the last several years - we are in a semi-comfortable position to buy. We could wait, but at this point, we are prepared to overpay a little. The home has come down to price it was purchased for in 2003. We, for one, support the tax break 100% - because it will help us, heavily prepared but of modest means, be able to purchase a home.
OverThrow on February 9, 2009 11:47 pm
“The mortagage + taxes etc will end up costing us only several hundred more than we are paying for our apartment.” - How much will repairs cost you. They add up. Significantly.
“we are in a semi-comfortable position to buy.” - this is exactly the evil of the 15K tax credit which really doesn’t help that much. What it does is give false confidence to buyers.
“We could wait, but at this point, we are prepared to overpay a little. The home has come down to price it was purchased for in 2003.” - The home was overvalued going back to 2000 or even before that. And, keep in mind that back then the prices of homes were rising out of control. So it is more than a little over-priced.
I really wish you the best of luck, but it only proves my point about the 15K tax credit. It’s the Governments blessing to put people into overvalued homes. Isn’t this what got us in trouble to begin with.
Jennifer on February 10, 2009 12:29 am
Smart move Katie, we’re nowhere near the bottom.
See:
graphics.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.large.gif
And:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4668112n
The only people trying to shove people into buying inflated assets (houses) are: “owners” who are underwater and want the misery to stop, clueless politicians, and realtors.
If you have money (as opposed to credit and debt) you will reap substantial rewards in 2010. Don’t even go to open houses, take your hubby on weekend getaways, go on vacation — the world is On Sale for people not living check to check who actually have money in the bank.
Jennifer on February 10, 2009 12:29 am
Smart move Katie, we’re nowhere near the bottom.
See:
graphics.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.large.gif
And:
cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4668112n
The only people trying to shove people into buying inflated assets (houses) are: “owners” who are underwater and want the misery to stop, clueless politicians, and realtors.
If you have money (as opposed to credit and debt) you will reap substantial rewards in 2010. Don’t even go to open houses, take your hubby on weekend getaways, go on vacation — the world is On Sale for people not living check to check who actually have money in the bank.
Jennifer on February 10, 2009 12:33 am
Mary Clarke, when you say you’re prepared to “overpay a little” do you mean overpay by 30%?
The Los Angeles area was Bubble City, lots of air yet to leave that bubble area.
KenO on February 10, 2009 12:35 am
I, too, am happy to hear about the 15k, but I am not relying on it to pay any part of my pending home purchase. I am 40 years old and I am buying my first house (which I can easily afford). After 10+ years of waiting and moving out of friggen CA, I am finally able to buy a home, for a reasonable price @ $70 sq. ft. As for the $15k; that will go into a CD account and wait there for a rainy day.
Joe Smith on February 10, 2009 4:59 am
selfish little piggies aren’t we…..
scott on February 10, 2009 6:45 am
So what will it really cost me to subscribe to this apathetic tax credit.
Like the CEO’s of the financial institutions that received bail out money,
Some unwillingly (Wells Fargo), will I be expected to give up my salary? Or worse
Yet, give half of my money to the welfare class so that they can have the same lifestyle
That I enjoy? Actually, isn’t that already the Obama plan?
Benton on February 10, 2009 7:29 am
The housing market is inflated in some large metro areas but there are some trends that lead me to believe in some areas it is the right time to buy. I live in Nashville,TN and think I almost have a deal put together on a little house. I also have my own business and see how the tax credit will help me afford to take risk I will not take with out it. Risk that will have a direct effect on the economy. The problem I see is people can’t take responsibility for there own actions and buy more home than they can afford. I made an offer on a House taking another 10% drop in home prices over the next year into account. This doom and gloom blog assumes all home buyers are idiots. It’s not the money down we should look at it’s the % of gross income lenders should enforce. If they only lend 23-25 % of gross income for a mortgage loan then the forecloser problem would not exists. Democrats and republicans both have plenty of blame to share but the real blame sits in the American voters lap. If you need a house go out and get to work finding that right deal for you. Move forward with your dreams and let these doom and gloom people toss blame around like a football.
DebtFree on February 10, 2009 8:15 am
RE: “This doom and gloom blog assumes all home buyers are idiots.”
Well, haven’t they proven that to be the case?
In 2000, 4% of loans were ARMS (Adjustable Rate Mortgages).
In 2006, 46% were ARMs.
“Idiots” seems an apt term.
Lisa on February 10, 2009 8:39 am
thanks for being part of the problem…appreciate it! As for this;
“In 2000, 4% of loans were ARMS (Adjustable Rate Mortgages).
In 2006, 46% were ARMs.
“Idiots” seems an apt term.”
Try dishonest shady banks after all they’re the ones who told people the ARMs were ‘great deals’ and ‘nothing to worry about’. Like a doctor, you trust the bank and bankers advice. We’re not idiots, we were duped by unscrupulous institutions.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 10:02 am
Lisa - you say “duped” - I invested in GM. I have stocks in GE. I had a banker tell me to put my money in an Annuity instead of buying a home 9 years ago. Which I did Guess what, I take full responsibility. If everyone was duped I demand that the Government bail me out for what I lost in stocks and an annuity.
Cameron on February 10, 2009 10:06 am
I am trying to buy my first home in the Northern Virginia area. I can tell you one thing - PMI and condo fees, hoa fees are killing me. If the housing industry really wanted to generate new buyers they’d look at the way we get hosed and do something about it. I could actually afford a really nice home here instead of settling for a not so nice one if I didnt have to consider these messed up fees.
Why am I being asked to pre - pay 3 months of hoa and condo fees before I even live there??? I dont have a yard and the “ammenites” of the community have been payed for long ago…so someone please justify 320 a month?!?! I dont mind paying for something of value - but where is the value??? How about some financial disclosure here - what are they actually doing with all that money every month?
Also - why cant they cut the PMI requirement down to 10%. I mean with the banks getting bailouts do they have to pay PMI on their loans? Who these days has 20% of a quarter million dollars laying around???
Sorry to vent but for someone who has worked hard to reach this point in life - all the angles and hustles of buying a home are really getting to me.
Will I ever actuall “own” a home?
The more I research and experience in buying a home the more I realize it really does amount to an American Dream - because the reality is I’d be better off renting all my life then paying BS closing costs, inflated hoa/condo fees, thousands in pmi, and thats before I even touch the principle of the loan. Oh and dont get me started on dealing with so called “buyers agents” - I’m on my third in 6 months.
Mary Clarke on February 10, 2009 10:14 am
Overthrow, if you do not want to buy a home, then do not. No one asked you to try and convince ‘us’ that we are all being duped. To let you know, this is not a political website.
As for the home, I was merely giving my two-cents. Everyone has come here to complain. I for one - wanted to let folks know that there are small patches of hope out there, that its not ALL doom and gloom.
We were lucky enough to lose $0 on our 401K. Just over a year ago we returned from a 6 month road trip in a motorhome with our kids….a long vacation, a beautiful experience, taught us to get by with very little. Since then we have saved and are in a position to take advantage of an underpriced property. We appreciate the tax credit, sans negative univited opinions, because I believe that this is a good start to a solution. I have an optomistic outlook, plain and simple.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 11:19 am
I love it - “Mary” states this is not a political website yet she shoves in my face the use of a 15K credit she took that came right out of my taxes. The LEFT telling me not to express my housing opinion on a housing website simply because SHE doesn’t agree with it. You took a 6 month road trip with your kids. Don’t your kids go to school? After all you should take advantage of our school systems that steal way more than 50% of every City budget in America and whose salaries and pensions and early retirements have depleted my pay check which has also prevented me from buying a home. The same school budgets that add unnecessary increased taxes to our Property Taxes. How’s that for a political statement Mary? All wrapped up very nicely in a housing argument. 6 months off. No school, no work, for 6 months and I’m paying for Mary to live in a house that I cannot afford. OBAMAWORLD - ISN’T IT GEAT! I WANT TO BUY A HOUSE. I CAN’T. DON’T YOU GET MY ARGUMENT? And you tell me not to buy a house if I don’t want to. I CAN’T AFFORD ONE BECAUSE I AM CARRYING PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND YOUR KIDS ON MY BACK WHILE YOU REAP ALL THE REWARDS. Have another nice 6 months off while I work 50 weeks a year, 50+ hour weeks, no pension, no early retirement, and the American Dream of a home has been stolen from me, by people like you.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 11:24 am
6 MONTHS OFF - Everybody write Mary. She has 6 MONTHS off on vacation while we all slave away. Her and her whole family - 6 MONTHS of vacation and we have to pay for her to buy a home. How many of you have 6 months off. 6 months vacation that is. Not 6 months unemployment. Do you people see what is going on here. The LEFT believes they are entitled to 6 months vacation while we all slave away. And, then they punch us in the face by saying they have a right to won a home at our expense. We are DOOMED Mary. THank you for being on the side that is actually going to accomplish this.
Wowsy on February 10, 2009 11:32 am
Overthrown, sounds like you need to find another job.
Mary Clarke on February 10, 2009 11:32 am
Because we saved for 2+ years to be able to do it. Its called discipline, being thrifty, and going without to get the things that are important to you. May I remind you my family is lower middle class with one income. Its all about priority.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 11:38 am
Hey Wowsy - Average Private Sector white collar man in America works 50 hours a week. I guess every average Private Sector worker needs a new job. How about doing your part instead of reaping the benefits of our hard work.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 11:44 am
Hey Mary - lower middle class families cannot afford 6 month vacations. I love the middle and upper middle class that cry poverty. She needs her 15K tax credit (out of our pockets by the way) because vacation is her priority. We’ve had two comments about my last facts. One tells me to get a new job (well we can’t all have cushy jobs likew “Wowsy”). And, Mary who thinks she is entitled to 6 month vacations while stealing my tax dollar simply because her vacations are her priorities in her life. Well, me paying for her vacations are not my priority. TIME FOR THE OVERTHROW. These are the people we are supporiting with our tax dollars. One who doesn’t appreciate the hard working man, the other one who thinks life is fun and games and we should subsidize her by working longer and harder.
Cameron on February 10, 2009 11:55 am
Damn OverKill - for someone who works so hard 50 hours a week you sure have a lot of time to blog!?!?
I hear you but whoa - my money is being taken by greedy banks and condo associations too - all while I’m being told thats just the way it is. If I gotta pay tax then so be it - I dont care where the money goes because I cant control it (roads, highways, schools) I can live with that as long as its fair and everyone is being taxed appropriatley based on income - how about the straight up rip offs of buying a house - nobody is talking about reforming that…and those are after tax dollars. You can loose way more in buying a home then you ever will by just paying taxes if your not carefull.
Besides - did taxes just come about under Obama for you? I’ve been paying taxes for years before Obama -and lets not forget the first bail-out was under Bush…that turned out great didnt it?!?!?
Chris on February 10, 2009 11:59 am
Hi,
In response to Anon’s comment about anyone who is buying… I have been in the process of buying a 3rd property (I currently live in an owner occupied) but the 3rd will be my first single family. Not to say I saw this coming but my wife was in the industry for about 6 years and in 2007 I begged her to get out and take a promotion in wealth management (which isn’t exactly secure at this time either) as it was just so obvious to even the lamen that the bubble was going to burst. So anyways, I degress, it has been incredibly frustrating buying this property. The bank we have always used and has always been right on top of their stuff (a credit union) has taken nearly 2 months to close on our house. Now that this Stimulus plan includes the tax credit, I am happy about this!! My wife and I have nearly 800 credit scores and have been told from the beginning we were approved but the problem is that everyone and their mother is refinancing and as many title companies and underwriting staff lost their jobs, there isn’t enough staff to keep up, thus, delaying the whole process. I personally think this is my chance to make my fortune in real estate. I purchased my first 2 family in 2006 and was just waiting for the market to tank (sounds like a shark but hey, it is capitalism and unlike many of my friends, I didn’t buy the 3 series beamer, I bought an accord). Anyways, let me off my soapbox… I would encourage anyone who stuck with common sense and didn’t put themselves in such a bad spot to buy… also anon, I just wanted to tell you the home I am purchasing was purchased for 100k under “current market value” so at least looking and offering is not a bad way to go.
PS Overthrow - I consider myself a Republican but lets be honest here, your viewpoints are far far right and are almost absurd. The ideals you express are the reason I feel a shameful embarassment at being Republican at times. This tax credit is not coming “right out of your taxes”….some might be but it is affecting us all and sense you seem to have a better idea, I would love to hear it? Over the last 8 years my taxes may have been cut but the deficit that was placed on us was so extravagant that even when W. isn’t in office, mine and your taxes will be paying it off for the rest of our lives… so for a stimilus plan that actually has something that will benefit our citizens “directly” I say put it through. Isn’t this basically the same plan that W. put in and now all of a sudden it is just terrible? Their is a reason we elected obama… people are tired of someone not doing what is best for our people! Now that is PATRIOTIC!!!
Chris on February 10, 2009 12:06 pm
sorry one more think for Overthrow… with that name you should be disgusted with yourself… after 8 years of patriotic talk, now all of a sudden you are benedict arnold! it is embarrassing to our party. change your name, it is disgraceful. also, my families income is apprxtly 175k a year and I would consider myself not even wealthy enough to be part of the republican agenda but I am guessing you make around 40-50 and think you are ACTUALLY part of this republican agenda, guess what… you are not and neither am I!!! But, I will stick by them as I feel the true values they hold coincide with mine (not the recent leadership). I don’t have stats for you but if you have any, I would really like to hear them… sorry to make this political but I had to get that all out…
lauretta hajik on February 10, 2009 12:10 pm
This upsets me a bit. I think Obama has everyone
druling over his shoes. He is not the God that everyone is looking for in Washington.
If you take all the money in total that was given and will be given in a stimulas pkg. and devided it
among the americans and let them spend it the way they wanted to ,that is stimulas. If you divided it up among all the TAX Paying folks,each would have
about 60k a piece. That would be a lot of help for a
lot of people to get out of debt, save their homes or pay off their credit cards. But is it too late?
Mary Clarke on February 10, 2009 12:11 pm
Family of 4 with less than 60K in income per year. We ride bikes or walk. We don’t have cable. My car is CNG and nearly 10 years old. We shop at thrift stores and yard sales. We make every meal at home from bulk ingredients - we even make our own bread - every loaf. We pickup furtiture from alleys and fix it up for our house. We check out books from libraries instead of buying! I made my own cleaners from Borax and Vinegar. What is so hard to believe about it all?
We pay our taxes and receive NO gov’t subsidies.
Those sacrfices, and there are many, allows us to live a comfortable life in other ways. Allow us to consider purchasing a home this year.
DebtFree on February 10, 2009 12:12 pm
RE: “Like a doctor, you trust the bank and bankers advice. We’re not idiots, we were duped by unscrupulous institutions.”
You’ve essentially proven my point. Lenders are NOT like a doctor, they ARE NOT looking out for your interests, but their interests.
Home “owners” need to understand that they have signed a contract — a legal document binding them to an agreement, using the property as collateral.
Buying a home is a financial transaction, with 2 parties agreeing to the terms. People need to understand this. No one was forced to sign anything, and as has been the case for hundreds of years “ignorance is no excuse for the law.”
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 12:12 pm
Cameron -It’s my day off after spending 7 straight days on a business trip working a heck of a lot more than 50 hours this particular week. Getting back to your comments, you do have control of your taxes (not all) if everyone gets involved. You should care where the money goes. The stimulus plan has been bumped back because of Public out cry. If more people got invloved and took real interest instead of spending all their time in front of the TV it could have been bumped back even more. It still doesn’t resolve the question why the Government is giving 15K credit. First, most people think that the Government is going to GIVE them 15K. That is not the case. They are not getting a 15K check from Uncle Sam. It is a Tax Credit. Most people need to look up the meaning of a tax credit. Houses are overvalued and the Government has now given their blessing for people to go out and buy overvalued homes. The very thing that has gotten us in this mess. There is nothing the Government can do about the prices of houses dropping. This is a waste of tax dollar. Prices will continue to fall. And, they will do so until home prices and rental parity come into alignment again. Everyone brings up Bush. Do you people know who DODD and FRANKS are. There’s plenty of blame to go around everywhere including the greedy home buyer who just had to have his overpriced house, SUV, vacation (6 month vacations for some on this post). Nobody is giving me money back on the stocks that I bought and tanked. Nobody is replenishing my 401 and IRA’s that a banker got me into. And, I take full responsibility. There is a book called “Mortgages for Dummies” - 10 bucks. Anyone could have read it and found out that getting these types of mortgages were a joke. The warnings were all over the newspapers, magazines, … but nobody wants to take personal responsibility for the biggest investment that they will make in life. A home. Duped my a$$.
DebtFree on February 10, 2009 12:14 pm
RE: “why cant they cut the PMI requirement down to 10%”
If you don’t have a 20% down payment, you shouldn’t be buying a house. Period.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 12:24 pm
What I have heard today -
1. I’m a Republican - no, I’m an Independent
2. 15K Tax Credit does not come from our taxex - Hmmmm, the ignorance just continues.
3. Bush, Bush, Bush - Dems forced these lending practices in place. DODD - do you know who he is.
4. Because you don’t have cable TV you are something special - I don’t have cable TV, it’s too expensive. I guess the Government now owes me money.
5. You are only a Republican if you make over 175K a year - Hmmm, my Father amd Mother were and still are poor. They are Republicans. If only rich people were Republicans (those making over 175K a year), there would be no Republican party. Republicans cross all parts of the spectrum just as Democrats. Just how do you think Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 got elected.
6. People with 175K household income are not rich - Ha Ha Ha Ha! The greatest insult out of them all. Go tell that to America. By the way, the top 6% of earner in this nation make 96K. That is where Obama drew the line during his campaign. I guess you better hold onto that 175K salary.
7. I don’t know what I’m talking about because I only make 40-50K a year - Not the case and why this personm would have such an elitist attitude is way beyond me. I guess if you are rich (175K a year) only you know what you are talking about.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 12:32 pm
RE: “Like a doctor, you trust the bank and bankers advice. We’re not idiots, we were duped”
From DebtFree - “You’ve essentially proven my point. Lenders are NOT like a doctor, they ARE NOT looking out for your interests, but their interests.”
I have to add to “DebtFrees” comment which I agree with. But, I do need to expand. You people actually trust doctors in this day and age. Did you ever hear of a second opinion. If you went in for your biggest operation (bought your biggest investment - a home) would you trust what the doctor (banker, mortgage, …) told you. Or, would you get a second and third opinion (do a little research - it goes a loooooong way).
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 12:53 pm
Bush, Bush, Bush - Hey all you Bush haters. There’s plenty of blame to go around - Here’s todays article on Dodd from the New Haven Register
“Sen. Dodd is vulnerable. His approval has sunk to a new low,” said poll director Douglas Schwartz. “The mortgage controversy has taken a toll on his approval rating. Most voters are not satisfied with Dodd’s explanation and say they are less likely to vote for him next year because of it.”
Dodd has said he sought no special treatment from Countrywide when he refinanced his Washington and East Haddam, Conn., homes in 2003. He has acknowledged participating in a VIP program at Countrywide, but said he thought it referred to upgraded customer service, not reduced rates.
HA HA HA HA HA HA - sounds just like Daschle and all the other crooks that are being put into Obama’s cabinet. Dodd said he didn’t know. He’s in charge of the Finance and Banking Committee, and he didn’t know taking sweetheart deals from Banks was a problem all the while he and FRANKS turned their heads to their responsibilities of protecting us from a mortgage crisis. That darn Bush. He must have paid DODD and FRANKS off just like he paid everyone off in Florida to win the 2000 election.
Mary Clarke on February 10, 2009 12:56 pm
Lets just let him go, and see how long he talks to himself for…..
Cassandra on February 10, 2009 1:35 pm
To OverThrow.
You need to ask your boss for a pay raise. And I do think you can not afford a 500k house, in a few years maybe. My husband makes a bit over 52k a year and we can only afford a 250k house, and we barely have any bills. We live on a one income and later this year I will be looking for a job, since I do know it will be a rough time to find one with all the layoffs going on. The type of work my husband does will stay while for a very long time, the company of 5 people haven’t seen any slow business.
We just bought our 1st home in Dec and we can not wait to find out if the 15k might be applied to us, but we do know that the 7.5k tax credit will. And yes we know we got to pay it back over the course of 15 years. Our house was a short sale, but we pushed everyone to get the ball on the road. When we had the inspector look at the house he told us we might need the roof it repaired or replaced. And the tax credit would help us on that.
Also on anther note. We don’t have cable tv, we thought spending nearly $90 a month on it was a waste when we don’t watch it. So we have business class internet, which is used in replace to tv, and my husband does some work that does require him to have one of the best connects to the net.
DebtFree on February 10, 2009 1:38 pm
RE: Lack of due diligence on the part of home buyers
Agreed. Add in lack of common sense (e.g., overbidding on properties).
Almost every person whom I show this chart has only seen it for the first time:
graphics.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.large.gif
Can it be any more clear the bubble was unsustainable (exotic financing, not salaries fueled the rise), and a MASSIVE home price correction is unstoppable?
DebtFree on February 10, 2009 1:40 pm
RE: “My husband makes a bit over 52k a year and we can only afford a 250k house”
Actually, you can only afford a $156K house (3X income).
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 1:44 pm
Mary - Unfortunately I will have to end this fun today (yes there is frustration by lots of us but there is also some fun here). I will have to end this after today because I must return to work tomorrow. You know what that is don’t you? Or, are you on another 6 month vacation subsidized by the American tax dollar. How’s that 15K tax credit working out that you needed. You know, the one that came out of my taxes. Oh that’s right, according to some on this blog, a tax credit given to others doesn’t come out of my pocket. It just gets picked off of the money tree. It’s all wonderful all th things that your family does to safe money, but why do I have to pay for tax credits so you can afford a home. I don’t have cable, I don’t go to restaurants, I certainly don’t take 6 month vacations, I spend my vacation days working on my parents house, I have a 10+ year old car, last year I bought a new TV for the first time in about 20 years (yes, they use to last that long), I take the bus when I can, I limit all of my driving trips, … I can go on. I do just like you do. So why do you think doing such things makes you special? As a matter of fact many baby boomers do exactly what I do. Learned from our parents that grew up during the Depression, Grandparents off a boat and in many cases denied citizenship, father and 7 uncles off to war for this country. They all grew up poor, not by choice, yet they all paid their own bills and never asked for anything in return. Though you are probably not a baby boomer which may be the reason why you think you should be rewarded for such living as opposed to thinking it is common place for many in America.
Cassandra on February 10, 2009 1:54 pm
For your graph, debtfree, I would think it had to deal the population. Around year 2000 or so the baby bloomers have either gotten good paying jobs or gotten out of school. Which in this case make sense for the prices of houses go up, the demand was high and the supply went down.
I have never seen that graph before, but before we even starting looking for a house, I looked and compared the prices to years and years ago. And noticed the same thing that the graph had pointed out.
Anther thing, for the house we can afford part, we both have great credit scores. We are in a program by the bank for 1st homeowners, and with a well trusted bank. And yes I had looked into those figures before of “How much house can I afford?” And those figures seems werid, I have seen people have nice houses with an okay paying job. And they live like no-tomorrow, and yet they still have their house and no worries their way.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 1:54 pm
Cassandra - You missed the point of my comment about 50K salaries thinking they can afford a 500K home. As far as a raise - “hello boss man - as you know, the prices of houses are overvalued, therefore, you need to give me a raise.” The Boss’s response - “HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.” On the other hand - “Hello Obama - I spent all my money on an overvalued house, used HELOC’s to live a life of luxury, bought new cars, went on vacations, and all of a sudden the bills showed up at my door. This isn’t far. Can you help me.” - Obama response “yes my child, it is only fair that those that played by the rules pay for your sins and ignorance.”
Kirk Knight on February 10, 2009 2:02 pm
I’m a REALTOR and I don’t support the $15,000 tax credit. I have let our local, state and national associations know my opinion.
In many markets the bottom is falling faster than we shove money in at the top. This does not result in foie gras, but merely goose droppings.
I think our efforts would be better used if we invested that money in stabilizing markets by 1) providing funds to pursue and prosecute scammers and con artists who are deceiving distressed homeowners whose owner-occupied homes are foreclosed and further erode property values, and 2) providing funding for professionally trained consultants and counselors who can manage loan mods or advise to sell. In many areas we as a nation will save more and recover faster by keeping home owners in their homes. Turning properties over to speculators (I don’t call them investors, as investors add value) whose lack of property management allows these homes to turn into slumlord properties will not protect property values.
I’m fortunate that in my core market home values are down only 2-5% from 2006 peak, mostly due to excellent schools and good neighborhoods. But less than 2 miles away homes have dropped 70% in value due to a wide range of factors ranging from crime, speculators abandoning properties, poor schools and lack of jobs. Even at the discounted price these homes come with very high risk such that I can’t advise my investors to buy them.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 2:02 pm
“I have seen people have nice houses with an okay paying job. And they live like no-tomorrow, and yet they still have their house and no worries their way.”
You have to love Cassandra’s point. The other half lives better (even though its only a perception - they are in debt up to their necks); therefore, we too can live in a house that is above our means. They have no worries - OF COURSE THEY HAVE NO WORRIES. OBAMA IS GOING TO SEE THAT THE REST OF US SUCKERS PAY FOR THEIR NO WORRY LIFE.
lauretta hajik on February 10, 2009 2:48 pm
All this bable for nothing, Just wait to see what else will happen to this country if you all do not wake up and smell the roses. We have become spoiled and do not even think about the future. You need to be stocking up with sustainable foods because if things get really bad, and they will. How will you survive if you cannot go to the store and buy food because you dollar is not worth anything,no gas,no power.this country is in the mode for failure Big Time and you are all whining.I don’t mean to scare people,but-think for a minute.We will not know if this plan of Obama’s is working or not till 2012.by then our Country will be in chaos.And all you can think of are the charts for loans.Better start thinking about more serious things.
lauretta
Cassandra on February 10, 2009 2:57 pm
Poor poor OverThrow, sorry if you feel like people are trying to gang up on you and take your taxes dollars. How do you feel about Vetrains getting free medical and their kids up to the age 21 or 24(if they are in school)? You don’t even have to anwser that since that is a different topic at hand.
But I do feel like you are a forum troll, trying to stir up drama.
I will however say something about this tax credit. I do however think that people that made their own stupid choices in the past shouldn’t get this tax credit. They should have done their homework in the 1st place. And not gotten an arm loan or a ballon. I also do know some people that gotten those, and they are about to lose their home. Fix rates are the best to go. I do think it is sad that the gov has to step in and “save” the banks for their stupid mistakes as well, and let people get home loans that they can’t afford. To my point of view they(gov) are only steping in so the people can invest in something.
When we bought our house we knew nothing of these tax credits, we were happy to find out that we would get some money back for having bought a house. We have earned our house, it wasn’t handed to us. But to see a family making min wage and living in a 250k place… would make me rethink of what is our country coming to.
If we hadn’t bought our house yet we might have used the 15k to pay of what we had saved up for the closing costs.
Obama is not a god, he is trying to clean up the mess that Bush and his house has done in Bush’s 8 years in office. Personaly I think the war was over oil, and some other things. I do however feel sorry for Bush because of 911, I don’t know if he had any to do with the attacks or what. But I would hate to be in his shoes on that day. I am not a Obama Lover nor a Bush Hater. People do make mistakes.
But again back to the tax credit, they might have to make it so people have to pay it back, like the 7.5k that is in effect. All the details of the 15k tax credit are not done, or atlease I haven’t found any info on the details yet.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 4:05 pm
Cassandra - 10 Uncles and my Father drafted and went off to war for this Country. Where the heck does this stupid argument of your’s come from. You now speak of me being against benefits for Veterans? I dare for you tell me your family even comes close to number of sacrifices my family gave to this country. You are a LEFTIST. You dare state that I am against Veterans in this Country because that is what you LEFTIST do. You have no housing argument here, so you make up other attacks. Also, the fact that you are against me stating my opinion, simply because it does not agree with yours, only proves my point further. All you do is blame Bush. Again it was the Democrats during Clinton’s administration that forced this type of lending into place. It was George Bush and the Senate that allowed it to continue. As I have repeatedly said, there is enough blame to go around, yet you LEFTIST refuse to acknowledge this. And, you still have no idea about the DEMS DODD and FRANKS. None whatsoever. By the way, did you forget to blame Cigar Bill Clinton for the Stock Market crash of 2001 when his administration allowed stocks to become overinflated so they could come crashing down, costing me (and many others) my retirement and a job for 11 months. Just wondering if you are a typical LEFTIST that has selective reasoning and memory.
You complain it was a war for oil. Yet you have no idea how important oil is in your life. Every industrial nation has become a slave to oil. And, if it is not controlled, then these countries will collaspe. Everything you touch in your wonderful world of luxury is because of oil. From your car, your air conditioner, your milk containers. medicine, televisions … EVERYTHING. Let’s just take it away and see what happens. You are so concerned, yet I believe you haven’t done a single thing in your life of luxury to limit all of theses things that can only exist because of oil. Your car’s gasoline is minor in all the oil used in the world. Which is used to produce and deliver everything. You even state “I don’t know if he had any to do with the attacks (911) or what.” and you don’t feel sorry for our President. Are you sick? I hope the home you paid way too much for falls in your laps and this Government lets you rot because of it. You proved my point earlier that you thought it was OK to buy your overvalued house because others did it and they are just doing fine. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM AND YOU CANNOT EVEN SEE THAT. A LEFTIST who thinks they are ENTITLED to everything that everyone else has. 15K Credit needs to go, people who can’t pay their mortgages need to become renters, and the prices of houses will adjust themselves to a level for the rest of locked out of the housing market to afford. Simple LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. It’s amazing how this simple LAW of the evil CAPTIALISM works all the time. Hey Casandra - don’t forget to walk to work today or take the bus. After all, if you are not part of the oil solution, you are part of the oil problem. But then again, the LEFT only dictates how others should sacrifice and not themselves. 10 Uncles and a Father. I’m waiting to hear your rebuttal about my knowledge of Veterans.
Cassandra on February 10, 2009 4:53 pm
I don’t have 10 uncles, my family has known about brith control. My dad served, both uncles and aunts on both sides have serverd, even both Grandpas served. My dad served even thought he wasn’t a us citizen, and his brothers served as well. I even had a few couisns die in combat. One was even drove a gun down this mouth becuase of this stupid war. I got brother serving, as well as my sister. We are thankful both are still alive to this very day. I got a brother-inlaw that is serving, and his wife cries and prays for him to be safe in Iraq. I am not serving because I am on a path to become a Chemist.
So lets count that up now… 2 Grandpas, 8 Uncles and Aunts, 6 Cousins, 4 of whom have died, 1 Brother 1 Sister. 1 Brother in law. Oh and even my own father that has servered over 30 years.
I love this Country, and I said nothing bad against Bush or anyone like you have. I am not calling anyone names, like you have. I do have reasoning. I do take both point of views and look that them. LIke i have stated in an earlier comment, I do understand you being P.O. at people whom are finaly able to get a house, and getting a bonus. Maybe these people finaly gotten pay rasies, or their dream home has finaly came down in price. I do think it is wrong for those people trying to buy a house that is out of their own hands for the price range just so they can get a 15k loan or free money.
I am sorry you feel like you worked all your life and you are not getting anything back for your sweat and tears. Sorry that people live the min and are able to have take their family on trips for long periods of time. It is not my falut that I don’t want to share a wall with some neighbor that likes to play their music of all hours. Or that owning a house is easy a few extra hundard dollars a month. The avg price for rent in the area around I live in is about 1.5k when a really nice house with lots of room and alot of yard is about 1.7k a month, that is the loan and house insurance. Yeah I am tied to this place for 30 years. But atlease I don’t have to worry about a landlord wanting to kick me becuase someone he likes wants to move in. BTW I used to live in an appartment complex. I do plan living in my house for the rest of my life, knowing i will have a roof over my head everyday. Sorry you can not feel the same way.
I will agree that house prices are too high, even with the fall of house prices. For a long time we tried to think how we could get a house. We are glad they went down in price. The prices of house will go up in about 5 years. So I have nothing to worry about, even if our house does go down in value, we know we will be able to afford it.
Supply and demand, you should know what it is. And I have explained it already.
Plus OverThrow you want to get that stick check.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 5:12 pm
Cassandra - your ignorance just kills me. What birth control did they have when my Aunts and Uncles were born? My mother was born in 1926 and the rest of her siblings were born before that. And, they (we) are Catholic. So your LEFTIST views just keep coming out. You now have a problem with people with large families, that even though they were dirt poor, provided for themselves. And, Uncle Sam didn’t mind the large number since they could be used to protect this country in time of war, which the Government did do. They were even set overseas to blow the heads of off their relatives. You were the one who attacked me about benefits for Veterans for some reason. Which I am certainly not against, nor even stated. But being the LEFTIST you are found it necessary to attack me on anything. My point wasn’t about the numbers of my family that fought for this great country, it was to counter your attack on me. But, since you want to play numbers. I only counted Uncles and my father (WWII and Korea). I didn’t count my cousins, cousins children, in-laws, (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, …) I’ll get the calculator and add it up at some point. And you state “I used to live in an appartment complex. I do plan living in my house for the rest of my life, knowing i will have a roof over my head everyday. Sorry you can not feel the same way.” WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. I’ve been stuck in a 500 foot apartment for 9 years because of the housing bubble. I’m still stuck here. I’M SORRY YOUR FLAG WAVING SELF GETS THE AMERICAN DREAM WHILE I’VE BEEN SHUT OUT OF IT WHILE AT THE SAME TIME USING MY TAX DOLLAR TO ACCOMPLISH YOUR DREAM. Oh wait, I’m sorry. A 15K tax credit isn’t paid for by the taxpayer. Silly me. I hope you enjoy the self admitted over proced house that you think you can afford and you think that you are entitled to.
OverThrow on February 10, 2009 5:17 pm
By the way Cassandra - no need to get my stick checked. I’m Italian.
Mark U. on February 10, 2009 5:56 pm
No one is holding you back from staying at you 500sq ft appartment. You could have saved your money up for this year and bought one.
She got her dream. Stop being angry at people that are able to achieve their goals and dreams in life. Its not even her falut for this bill that was created. She says if it is like the 7.5k tax credit they plan on paying it back. It is a loan. The tax payers do pay for it, but the people that get the credit do have to pay for it.
People in NYC that make about 50k a year or so, are living paycheck to paycheck and barely getting by.
People that live in Texas that make 50k a year could buy a large house and have a nice lifestyle. If you want a house so bad, then move somewhere where the house prices are low, but you can work there as well, with what you are doing right now. If not, try saving some money for schooling and look into a new career choice. You should also stop stressing out, it not good for your health, guessing by when your mother was born, you are near your 60s.
Eric Flores on February 10, 2009 6:04 pm
Why are you paying property taxes if you dont own a home Overthrow?
“I love it - “Mary” states this is not a political website yet she shoves in my face the use of a 15K credit she took that came right out of my taxes. The LEFT telling me not to express my housing opinion on a housing website simply because SHE doesn’t agree with it. You took a 6 month road trip with your kids. Don’t your kids go to school? After all you should take advantage of our school systems that steal way more than 50% of every City budget in America and whose salaries and pensions and early retirements have depleted my pay check which has also prevented me from buying a home. The same school budgets that add unnecessary increased taxes to our Property Taxes”.
You cant afford a house, property taxes? Ridiculous how far right you are… Im embarrassed for you…
Mary Clarke on February 10, 2009 7:28 pm
My kids were not in school at the time - too young! Overthrow. Your broad, sweeping judgements on America are just plain wrong.
….My guess is that your attitude in life has created many of the ‘obstacles’ you are ‘burdened’ with. Pep up!
Jennifer on February 10, 2009 10:18 pm
Cassandra writes:
“For your graph, debtfree, I would think it had to deal the population. Around year 2000 or so the baby bloomers have either gotten good paying jobs or gotten out of school.”
Scary. Baby boomers were considering retirement in 2000, not just getting good jobs or graduating from school.
—
“Which in this case make sense for the prices of houses go up, the demand was high and the supply went down.”
The “demand” was fueled by fancy mortgages and people spending 5X income or more on a house. Incomes in the US have been flat for the last 10 years (see: offshoring high-paying jobs to India, all manufacturing moved to China, etc, etc).
—
“I have never seen that graph before, but before we even starting looking for a house, I looked and compared the prices to years and years ago. And noticed the same thing that the graph had pointed out.”
You noticed a bubble of historic proportions was present, and bought a house at 5X income anyway?
—
“Anther thing, for the house we can afford part, we both have great credit scores.”
Um, credit scores are not income. One can’t pay a mortgage with a credit score.
—
“I had looked into those figures before of ‘How much house can I afford?’ And those figures seems werid”
They weren’t “weird” for the last 100 years. What’s weird is one paying 5X income for shelter.
—
“I have seen people have nice houses with an okay paying job. And they live like no-tomorrow, and yet they still have their house and no worries their way.”
It’s called Debt Serfdom — no savings, no cushion for an economic downturn, and no net worth.
Your responses are truly frightening. I wish you good luck, it sounds like it will be needed.
John on February 10, 2009 11:04 pm
There seem to be alot of people on here who know the answers. Let me ask this:
Is it better for me to spend $1500 a month on an apartment (avg going rate here for a 2 bedroom), or better to spend it on a mortgage(incl taxes+insurance)? Considering this is just under 1/2 of my monthly income.
I can afford a home and have a down saved (approx 15%). What then?
OverThrow on February 11, 2009 12:31 am
Let’s see in the last few posts about me I was told -
From Mark U - “No one is holding you back from staying at you 500sq ft appartment. You could have saved your money up for this year and bought one.”
Well Mark U - I have no choice but to remain in my 500 sq. foot apartment. So I am being held back. I did save my money. As a matter of fact I used every good business sense there was. Saved for a 20% downpayment, saved into my 401K, took a job where the pay was suppose to be good and secure and in return I still can’t afford a house, my 401K has been dismantled for the 3rd time in my life, and my good paying secure job isn’t. I’ve been laid off 4 times in 12 years and H1B visas are handed out like candy which have slashed my salary, my benefits, and limited my ability to get a new job in the time of crisis. All so others can live better than me because the new Messiah and his LEFT minions are going to sell us out in order to buy your vote. And they can do it because those on the LEFT actually believe business is BAD and Government is GOOD. How’s Chavez doing these days.
Eric Flores states “Why are you paying property taxes if you don’t own a home”
Ummmm - where did I say that? But now that you mention it, I said the Education system is eating up 50+% of every City budget in America, driving every City into bankruptcy which in turn increases property taxes. And just for your tiny dinosaur brain, I actually do pay property tax. When the landlord gets an increase in property tax, guess what, rents go up. I rent. Get it! Very simple business matter. I finally figured out why you LEFTIST hate business and business matters. You are too stupid to figure out a simple cause and effect.
Mary writes - “Your broad, sweeping judgements on America are just plain wrong”
My broad judgements? I’ve been very specifc as to what my arguments are. You have yet to counter them with an intelligent argument. Must be that 6 month vacation that you, your husband, and your burden on society children think you are all entitled to. Your welcome from me to you on your entitlements. I really didn’t need the money for myself or to continue to help my 80 year parents.
Eric Flores writes - “You can’t afford a house, property taxes? Ridiculous how far right you are… Im embarrassed for you”
Hmmm, can someone tell me what this means. I can’t afford a house and property taxes so he is embarrassed for me. I guess you must be embarrassed for a lot of people since lots of people cannot afford homes and property taxes. Oh wait, I get it. You were able to afford a house so I must be a loser. Well there are millions of you jerks that really can’t afford your houses and you attack me because I write my politicians and tell them to hold the money back from home owners who are too stupid to realize that sooner or later you have to pay YOUR bills. That’s YOUR bills. The ones OBAMA is now telling me that I have to pay. REWARD the STUPID and stick it to those who did things the right way. Eric you seem to be lacking some intelligience. By any chance were you born prematurely?
Mark U writes - “She got her dream. Stop being angry at people that are able to achieve their goals and dreams in life. Its not even her falut for this bill that was created. She says if it is like the 7.5k tax credit they plan on paying it back. It is a loan. The tax payers do pay for it, but the people that get the credit do have to pay for it.”
Hmmmm, the ignorance just continues. She gets her dream through my tax dollars while I’m denied mine. We give these people an interest free loan and it has nothing to do with my tax dollar that they have to pay back over 15 years. Mark U can you please send me the seeds to your money tree? Maybe that money should be put towards peoples’ jobs instead and the Government should allow the prices of houses to fall where they need to be. Then, and only then, the housing crisis will be over. Interest free loans handed out by the Government and this pebble brains tells me it has nothing to do with my tax dollar.
Mark U states - “guessing by when your mother was born, you are near your 60s.”
Wrong again, 47. Nice try though. Given your dinosaur brain, you were within ~13 years. You made an assumption on a number. You sound like those idiots that bought houses and assumed they could actually pay off their mortgages. Now suckers like me have to pay it for them.
Mark U states - “move somewhere where the house prices are low”
Tell me where you live. I’m going to live right next door to you just to make your life miserable. Maybe you should have told all your LEFTIST friends the same thing before they bought expensive houses they could not afford simply because. Though they would have bought anyway since they deserve to have what everyone else has. Chavez, Castro here we come. No class society where all is wonderful and progress and medicine are abundant and free. Oh wait, I was having a Micheal Moore flashback.
Bring on the comments folks. I love to pick the mind of the LEFT just to see how stupid they are with tax dolaars and how they think the Government just picks it off the moeny tree branches. I want just one of you to counter my argument about the taxes I have to pay. Or, please comment about Cassandra’s comment about my stick and my reply about me being Italian.
Doc Rock on February 11, 2009 12:47 am
Hey Overthrow
You may not be a Republican, but you certainly have proved yourself to be a loudmouthed douche.
Doc Rock on February 11, 2009 12:49 am
You might wanna scurry on over to Redstate.com where you will feel quite welcome.
Douche!
OverThrow on February 11, 2009 1:07 am
Are you signing your name Douche at the end of your comment? How about a counter argument about my tax comments. Don’t you have one, or are you just going to do name calling? Counter just one of my arguments. You may enlighten me. Come on we are waiting. When someone can’t counter a argument they resort to a simple name calling. Please counter one of my arguments. If you don’t, I’m calling OBAMA myself and telling him that you are one of those jerks who obviously need other peoples’ money to figure out how to survive. Here we have it. Out of all the people we have had fun with today, and heated arguments, and yes we ALL do get a little crazy in times like this, here is the DEVIL himself. A beyond Socialist man “Doc Rock” that can only resort to a simple name calling. Please counter one of my tax arguments. That is all I ask. Can you do it? What’s the matter, even a 15K tax credit isn’t going to fund your Socialist ways. One counter argument fool. Just one. That’s all I ask.
OverThrow on February 11, 2009 1:32 am
Doc Rock you haven’t responded yet. I’m so very disappointed. All I want is one counter argument to my tax comments. Why won’t you. Is it because of my statement about me being Italian. You know the Italians. The gifted Latin lovers of the World. I understand. You are angry because no matter how much the Government gives you it will never allow you to overcome the shortcomings in your pockets. Get it - it’s a double entendre. In any case, we male Italians have nothing to worry about there, so it is hard for us to understand your anger due to your shortcomings. If you manage to think of a counter argument please do resond back. We all want to hear from you.
DebtFree on February 11, 2009 8:21 am
John, you spend 50% of your income on housing?
You stated “I can afford a home” but how did you come to that conclusion?
Learn about “Debt to Income” ratio (DTI), which lenders use to determine if you can afford a given property:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-income_ratio
The short answer is NO, you cannot afford a house (if it means spending more than 28% of your income).
Your existing 2BR apartment, too, at 50% of your income is also unaffordable at your current salary. Look into finding a cheaper rental, save enough for a 20% down payment, and then look for a property you can actually afford (or wait for a property you can’t afford today drops in price enough).
John on February 11, 2009 10:01 am
I understand to DTI, please do not speak to me as if I am an imbecile. In an ideal world, that would be nice. I pay $1500 for a one bedroom in Los Angeles. My location affords me an easy commute to my place of employment so that I do not need to own a car. I pay about 39% of my take-home monthly pay on rent.
If I arrange a mortage at 28% - I would have to find a place less than $150K. In Los Angeles. Not gonna happen.
The thing that kills me is that there is reality, and there is the ideal. I shouldn’t pay more than 28% - try living in Los Angeles and arranging that. Every city is different. Urban areas typically require that individuals pay higher proportions of their monthly income on rent/mortgage. So what then?
Not sure why there is so much hostility on this forum.
DebtFree on February 11, 2009 3:22 pm
John, I did not insult you nor engage you in a hostile way.
If you knew about DTI ratios, then you would have answered your own question. A lender will not give you a loan today above 28/36. That’s reality.
John on February 11, 2009 3:29 pm
Not true. I have been pre-approved.
DebtFree on February 11, 2009 3:31 pm
And before the Housing Bubble, you could buy a house in Los Angeles for 4-5X income vs today’s 10-11X income:
housingtracker.net/affordability/california/los-angeles
DebtFree on February 11, 2009 3:33 pm
RE: “I have been pre-approved.”
30-year fixed or ARM?
DebtFree on February 11, 2009 3:35 pm
Here’s more sales data for Los Angeles:
housingtracker.net/askingprices/California/LosAngeles-LongBeach-SantaAna/LosAngeles-LongBeach-Glendale
Median price down 23.3% in the last 12 months. Buying today is madness.
OverThrow on February 11, 2009 3:36 pm
John - you and I are in the same boat. We cannot afford a home where we live. Just 8-9 years ago housing was affordable here, and if conditions were not allowed to grow out of control, we could find homes to own. I’m in a little better shape than you financially, but that may just because I’m a little older and a little further in a career. This has been my whole argument in this blog for which I have been attacked greatly. We have been locked out because of overvalued homes and now the Government wants to keep the prices of houses overvalued. Even by given a false sense of security in the housing market by offering a 15K tax credit. There’s one reason for this. Government doesn’t want to lose the tax base generated by high property values. So who suffers in this case? We do. We are being kept out of the housing market and we are getting taxed more in order for others to remain in homes they cannot afford. My rent has been raised three years in a row. Home come I do not hear all these people taking handouts stating that in these times of troubles, Government should pay for increased rents? Not going to happen. It doesn’t concern the home owners in trouble. They want all the money for themselves in order to get themselves bailed out of trouble in which they got themselves into. And people wonder why I am mad. I’ve done everything the right way and have gotten no where. Others did everything wrong and are now rewarded for it by our Government.
OverThrow on February 11, 2009 3:46 pm
http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/ - Best website to describe all of this madness. It’s for Southern California and has been all over the bubble and the reasons for it, long before it happened. And our Politicians like to state - “no one saw this coming.”
John - I think if you are at least comfortable where you are, you may want to wait a little before trying to jump into the market. I don’t know how old you are or if you have family which puts extra stress on the situation, but waiting a while is not a bad thing. Home prices and rental costs must come into parity. It has always been that way and when things get a little out of whack, things are adjusted automatically by Supply & Demand and not Government intervention (it’s a little more complicated than that, but that’s it in a nutshell along with DTI). I have a 100 years or more of data to support these facts. Politicians and home owners that cannot afford their mortgages are living in another dimension.
John on February 11, 2009 3:52 pm
30 fixed.
Jennifer on February 11, 2009 9:37 pm
If what John says is true, that he actually found a lender to approve a mortgage where nearly 50% of his income is consumed on housing costs, it would seem lenders have learned nothing. Let them all go bankrupt.
One who dedicates 50% of income on housing costs (especially when housing prices remain close to 100-year highs) is heading down the path to foreclosure.
In addition, a $50-60K salary in Los Angeles or New York metro areas is simply not enough income to buy a property. Rent, focus on the career, increase the salary, and buy in 2 years when prices are 30% lower.
Prince William Homes on March 1, 2009 7:22 pm
Kiss it good bye! 8K for a first time home buyer wiht limits on income! The administrations new socialist budget will limit mortgage interest write offs also. Can anyone say “Redistribtion of your wealth?”
Loans Consolidate on March 7, 2010 8:07 am
I think you made a good decision.
I wouldn’t invest in housing right now. The fundamental causes of the recession have not been changed.
The consumer based economy is a failed model.
Pushing people to have ‘consumer confidence’ and ’stimulating’ the economy are just going to lead us down the same path.
Save your money, buy within your means and don’t over-extend on credit.
If you’ve already got yourself deeply into many debts, you can check this site out:
http://consolidate.ws
Wanting people deep in debt and encouraging credit to flow freely through ridiculously low interest rates is not what a responsible government should be doing.