Zillow Turns 3!

14 Comments so far

1. Zillow Turns 3 - What Have We Learned? | Property Portal Watch on February 8, 2009 6:04 pm

   [...] weekend Zillow announced on its blog that it had turned three. In this short time, Zillow has almost become a household name in the US and in January, they [...]

2. Joan Kinkade on February 9, 2009 11:53 am

   The stats we’d really like to see concern how many homeowners nationwide have been damaged — to what extent demonstrable — by Zillow’s publication of false, out-of-date, and/or misleading information as to the description and value of their properties.

   What’s been worse is Zillow staff’s inability or unwillingness to timely and effectively correct false and misleading information when provided with verifiable facts by owners and licensed real estate professionals, such as agents and appraisers. As more and more people have been misguidedly turning to Zillow for “reliable” information, it’s all the more important that you come up with better ways and more adequate staff (not, as known, cutbacks in staff admidst such supposed “success”)to responsibly fact check and respond to complaints rather than go on publishing misleading info, incl. valuations based on known errors or irrelevancies.

   Case in point: Weeks ago, David Gibbons at Zillow, in an impressive performance of actually seeming to give a damn, invited me to e-mail him information about a specific property. So I wrote to him at length about the frustration we’ve long been having because of “last transaction” reflecting 10-year old value of lot, not a home, where old house on site was completely torn down according to plan. I suggested an easy remedy: same approach Zillow uses with other newly constructed homes where last transaction is only sale price of lot: removal of an identified anomaly as basis for calculating a zestimaste. David’s response? NUTHIN YET. Sure, I’ve got Patience, but I’ve been trying to prompt Zillow to effectively address this issue for more than a year and a half.

   We’re about ready to flip the switch, as you put it, on Zillowclassaction.com — another year or so and maybe we’ll have opportunity to compare some stats on Zillow misperformance and malperformance and how that has harmed real people in real situations.

   What we want to learn is not just Zillow’s self-serving zestimation of its zuccess (eg, traffic generated), but also the significant measurable harm Zillow’s cavalier and enormously flawed operation has cost countless homeowners during the worst real estate turndown anyone has seen in more than thirty years. This is not a time for back slapping about how much faulty, outdated, misleading information you’ve disseminated, but for soberly asking yourselves whether Zillow has been more a part of the problem than part of the solution. No doubt indefensibly low zestimates on selected properties erode buyer confidence and serve to drive down sales of real estate at a time when foreclosures and shorty sales are also wrecking havoc.

3. David Gibbons on February 9, 2009 2:07 pm

   Hi Joan - happy Monday!

   Please pay close attention to this response. I will also forward this comment to you by e-mail so as to avoid any further confusion as to whether or not you’ve heard from me. I did actually respond to the additional information that you sent me. My answer to you is still posted on the blog thread where we had that conversation: http://www.zillowblog.com/bold-steps-from-century-21s-marketers/2009/01/

   As I’d predicted in my earlier advice to you, your home’s Zestimate value has now increased. This happened thanks to the corrections that you have posted regarding the home’s facts. Thank you. And the Zestimate’s maximum value has now also increased to roughly equal your list price. At this point, there’s little disagreement between your Zestimate and your price. I am glad to see that that worked out for you. Please take note of the Zestimate value range. Let me try to be very clear on this point: the fact that Zillow reflects the 10-year ago sale of the parcel is not negatively impacting the accuracy of your home’s Zestimate value. What was impacting your home’s Zestimate value is the fact that your home facts and taxes are incorrect at Maricopa county and Zillow was using their incorrect data. Now that you’ve updated those home facts on Zillow, your home’s Zestimate value is reacting as expected to that corrected info.

   So … why was your Zestimate value low? First (and hopefully for the last time) … this has absolutely nothing to do with the 1998 sales transaction. Again, the 1998 sales transaction is not impacting your home’s Zestimate value. What was impacting your Zestimate value is that Maricopa County’s data regarding your home is incorrect. The Maricopa County tax assessor thinks your home has 3,160 sq.ft. and so even the County appraiser has a value estimate of $550K for your home and according to their records, your home was built in 1974. As such, you’ve been getting a HUGE discount on your property taxes - I’m actually surprised you’d never noticed that.

   Because county property records can be out of date, Zillow uniquely allows homeowners to correct them on our site. Now that you have done that, the accuracy of your home’s estimate has improved. And so, all that’s left for me to do here is wish you a speedy sale - GOOD LUCK!

4. DebtFree on February 9, 2009 4:25 pm

   Happy birthday Zillow!

   The site is truly a valuable real estate resource, especially with realtors trying (successfully) to maintain a monopoly on information in a cartel-like manner.

   I’ll never understand all the “Zestimate” whiners out there, it’s just a calculated guess, obviously it’s not 100% accurate.

   But to ignore the wealth of factual data provided here (such as previous sale data, satellite mappings of comparable sales, property Q&A, etc) is to cut off the nose to spite the face.

   Keep up the great work (even though the new Q&A format is abysmal).

5. David Gibbons on February 9, 2009 7:37 pm

   Thanks debtfree (… & we’ve put much more work into Advice - I actually think it’s over many of December’s humps - some of which were understandably jarring.)

6. Joan Kinkade on February 9, 2009 9:49 pm

   David –

   I did most carefully read your responses to the Century 21 blog. Unlike you, I am not twitter-pated or all blogged out.

   Here you admit Zillow has long been using outdated INCORRECT DATA — as supplied by Maricopa County. Maricopa County is not in real estate sales business or particularly motivated to help Zillow capitalize on public records.

   If you “carefully” read any portion of my e-mail, you may understand we didn’t complete construction and get a certificate of occupancy until August 6, 2008. Far from getting a break on taxes, we’ve actually been paying taxes on a liveable home, not just a lot, throughout a more than two-year period where we had, in demonstrable fact, just a construction site. Are we eager to begin paying higher taxes on the newly built luxury home? Oh sure boys, anything that will bring the zestimate a little closer to the 1,875,000 appraisal figure we obtained in August 2008, shortly after receiving the certificate of occupancy.

   The trend chart you show along with your zestimate (which has fluctuated from 1.42 to 1.3something just in last three days) shows a value you boys pulled out of your butts — er, I mean algorithm — in 2007. How did Zillow determine our home was worth more before it was worth less, but now “only” about 200 thou below our asking price, which was almost 300 thou below appraisal by state-licensed expert? I sent you comps the appraiser used and his comments on them. I can also send you comps real estate agents have used more recently in advising us where to price the home — they don’t all show up on the “comparable homes” Zillow would have us choose from when selecting comps. You admit you can’t rely on Maricopa County records — certainly not for TIMELY, ACCURATE INFO, yet you refuse to deal effectively with accurate up-to-date information provided by owners and licensed real estate professionals. I still think your position is indefensible.

   I also asked you in my e-mail how I might change the photo that accompanies my listing. I have tried to do this, but can’t figure out how to do it. Would I have to remove ALL the photos of my home before I could possibly impact the one that is being shown on the listing? Check out 10 Barsdis in East Hampton, New York, one that your fearless leader apparently has interest in. There was NO photo at all there, so I tried uploading one, since your zystem, for other reasons unknown, actually allowed me that option. How can I change the photo for MY OWN listing? Is that too much “help” to ask? If Barton is impressed about 60 views, what does he think of 598 — I can tell you this: we haven’t had a single identifiable real LEAD or PROSPECT from Zillow — despite all the “traffic.”

   In all civility, David, thank you again for nothing. As I explained in my e-mail, Zillow has been a thief of my time and has cost me a LOT of grief and opportunities besides. I’m not getting paid for being here. Yet even when a homeowner goes to the amount of trouble I have to command attention and provide you with verifiable facts, Zillow apparently still cannot or will not reflect those facts in the valuations it persists in publishing. I made it clear I would be happier with the simple word “NONE” that you so often use with other new constructions where you don’t yet have any data from Maricopa County, but possibly a prior transaction involving price of a lot.

   Why wasn’t that an acceptable solution?

   Are you saying Zillow actually prefers to publish figures based on admittedly OUTDATED data it KNOWS to be wholly inaccurate? I’d call that MALICE.

7. Tom on February 9, 2009 11:59 pm

   I’m curious about a property at 950 Laurel Wood Drive in Eden, NC. It says it was built in 1998, but there is no zestimate, no information about any prior sale, or any tax record, nothing but the owner’s asking price. Why is that? Seems these folks have been spared all the aggrivation Zillow has caused others. Why is that? Less cooperative county?

8. David Gibbons on February 10, 2009 9:52 am

   Hi Joan - happy Tuesday,

   Sorry to hear that. To change photos, log in using the account that posted them and then click “add or edit” above the photos. Good luck selling your home - I recommend focusing on those things that will accomplish that - ranting at me is not one of them.

9. Joan Kinkade on February 10, 2009 3:47 pm

   Hi David - happy Tuesday, yourownself

   If anyone else feels a good rant coming on, at least they’ll know where they can go. (No, I didn’t mean “hail” tho I surely caught YOUR drift a few posts back, David.)

   Will have our Website, however amateur in design, up and running within a week, and unlike Zillowites, we will actually be interested in hearing every detail of countless others’ aggrivating, frustrating, costly experiences of having homes held captive on Zillow, subject to untimely zessing based largely on ignorance.

   Oddly enough, I visited Trulia recently, where I noticed two comps to mine at 16807 East Jacklin, closed in January in Fountain Hills, AZ: one at 2.3 mil (see 15855 E. Firerock); another at 1.76 mil (see 9115 N Horizon Trail). Apparently, neither was ever even listed “for sale” on Zillow, nor does Zillow have a clue yet that they’re sold. Draw your own conclusions . . .

10. Joan Kinkade on February 10, 2009 3:58 pm

    p.s. Thanks for the picture tip, tho, David. Better late than never I guess.

11. Joan Kinkade on February 12, 2009 2:41 pm

    It’s me again David and I KID YOU NOT. What you told me to do just plain does NOT work. I have told you what the problem is — repeatedly. When I click on edit photos, the mudhead photo — yes the comic one — does not appear any where for me to remove or replace. The so-called main photo is the picture of of pool and golf course. The picture I wanted to use as a main photo for my listing, I might only upload in place of the pool view — NOT in place of the comic poster. We all had a laugh or two –especially when the mudheads were in the golf course pond and the same home that doesn’t exist at 15807 was popping up on wrong side of street, but now, David, would you please get serious about providing real close careful instruction to me about the photo of the mudheads. You gotta have a liitle patien ce with folk in the 1.99 percentile — we’re slow learners. I’ll henceforth consider you the one with the little twitter on his shoe if you cannot solve even such a small “technical difficulty.” As if the word “none” was too much to ask, I got it all right: at wrong location, wrong address across the street where human error put a 5 in place of a 6. What a darned joke all of this has been. My realtor is, at my request, removing the sort of standard listing feed you get through Homes and Land. They could easily get the word “none” where there is no tax assessment info on any such property. There are “nones” all over newly built luxury comps. Your trend chart is misleading, totally indefensible and you can’t even tell me how to delete the poster, which it is probably a “copyright” infringement to continue to use here: or don’t you respect copyright laws either?

    Happy Friday 13 — maybe I’ll get lucky again.

12. Joan Kinkade on February 12, 2009 2:48 pm

    ps Zillowites had no problem whatsoever removing the “banned in Arizona” symbol I uploaded among my photos. If you actually know how to delete a photo yourself, Mr. Gibbons, I hereby give you my permission to “just do it.” Is that also too much to ask? I understand I may post an “unlimited” number of photos — is that correct?

13. WannaNetwork Real Estate Networking » » So Zillow Turned Three Last Week on February 13, 2009 10:52 pm

    [...] you believe Zillow has been around for three years now?  I can remember the first time I had heard of it.  I was at a listing appointment in [...]

14. Anthony Griffin on November 5, 2009 8:57 pm

    The legal description and details are all incorrect for my property. I went onlione and corrected the details but I don’t see any means of posted the correct legal description of the home. How can I correct this?